On the other hand, anyone flying a T9 in Open is without doubt experienced enough with the game to understand the risks and accept them. Choice, again.
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On the other hand, anyone flying a T9 in Open is without doubt experienced enough with the game to understand the risks and accept them. Choice, again.
Depends on why they make that choice.
If they made it with the full knowledge of how the game works, how the modes work, been told you can PvE as well as PvP then yes they made the choice knowing they could die that way.
However, stopping random people in open and asking them if they know you can play this game, with other people - as a PvE game may just yield a result that will show lots of people do not know you can do that. So they cannot make an informed choice.
I've seen people making threads on this very forum about being killed in open, then being surprised to find out there is more to the game than forced PvP.
I've personally explained what the Mobius Group is to someone of these boards.
(remember, not everyone uses the forums and the game does not explain you can PvE this game)
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Actually, not only the linked article is VERY INTERESTING, but also a lot of other articles from this autor are excellent. Especially players should read them, not only peoples active in MMO development bussines.
In some other article, he mentioned a relatively good method how to minimise the amount of PKs/Griefers in Open PvP games. The idea is quite simple and relatively easy to implement.
The victim will have no penalty after death (in ED terms it probably must be "respawn in nearest station with ship intact and full cargo") and the attacker is punished. The punishment is also simple. Not to be able to attack any player for some time. Days, weeks of real time.
Both sides are well thought. On one side, players are not upset too much, if they are killed in non consensual PvP and there is no loss after death (except small amount of time). On the other side, the PKs/Griefers are punished in the main point, because the punishment will take from them their fun, the reason to play.
Which is one of the fears some Open players have about an Open PvE mode: that, after making all the player base aware that PvE is possible, there would be a mass exodus towards it. Just look at the size Mobius got despite being known mainly to players that also read the forums, which are a small minority in about every game.
Don't really know what it was you just said back there.....all i can see is BACON CATS!
You mean the one about PvP in SWG?
One point I find interesting in it is when he compares the PvP system in SWG — which, while well thought off, didn't fully work and had to be replaced — with the one in WoW (in the PvE servers, by the description) — which, despite being basically the same system, actually worked well there and is still in place.
Basically, he boiled it down to WoW's polish, how it kept the player away from potential PvP situations until he wasn't a newb anymore, how Star Wars players had been trained to always shoot at the stormtroopers, and — IMHO the most important one — how death in WoW isn't really an issue; no death penalty of note meant that players didn't care much about when the system failed and they were tricked into PvP.
(BTW, one of the things I find interesting in Raph Koster is that, while I regard him quite highly, I would be very unlikely to play a MMO designed by him. He loves crafting virtual worlds, and one of the main tools he uses to make them feel like virtual worlds, to make some semblance of society appear in them, is to enforce player interdependency, going as far as originally restricting SWG to one character per account in order to prevent players from being self-sufficient; I, on the other hand, will rather leave a game than ask any other player for help, so I can't quite play a game like the ones he is best known for.)
See, this is something the PvPers have done in this thread.
I never used to have any sympathy for people who don't research a game before buying it / playing it.
However, PvPers have convinced me throughout the course of the 3 megas, that ignorance is indeed a defence.
And as FD have made no attempt at all to let people know "Blaze your own trail" includes a PvE only experience, every time I see someone has been griefed / ganked / murdered in open, I'm going to assume they were not able to make an informed choice on where to play.
I also feel the PvPers are right, I think people would abandon Open PvP in favour of a real Open PvE mode if they knowingly have the choice to.
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I kinda feel the same. Not completely, but enough that I won't ever shoot a player in Open, regardless of whether our roles would make it the lore-compliant choice, simply because I can't be sure the player chose Open for the PvP or for the chance of co-op PvE. Which basically means I won't ever use Open in the way it currently is because, without an Open PvE mode to siphon away the players that aren't actually looking for PvP, Open is useless for me.
I don't find the choices wholly inadequate because there is still Solo mode, so if avoiding PvP is for the player more important than meeting random strangers, the option is in the menu. Not ideal, of course, but any player that is truly turned off by the PvP can at least avoid it, even if at a cost.
Caveat: while I love both, I don't mix PvP with PvE. Or, at least, won't ever again. Any mode where PvP is possible, without requiring some kind of flagging, is a mode I will use only as a PvP minigame, and even then only if I'm sure every single player I will meet there is actually seeking PvP.
I'm not so sure because of Solo. From my experience with gaming communities most players in MMOs actually play the game alone, so I believe many, perhaps most, of the players that would leave for an Open PvE mode are already playing in Solo. Thus, I believe the main impact of an Open PvE mode would be in getting a large number of Solo players to play with others.
In the long term it might even lead to more players in the PvP-enabled Open mode because the jump from Open PvE to Open PvP ought to be far smoother than jumping from Solo to Open PvP.
It's an old song/gag: The Song That Has No End
all i can see is BACON CATS!
That's all you need, amen.
An example:
I started out in Open mode. I mainly play as a trader. Made it to a T7, at which point I got tired of being blown to bits when flying on known trade routes. Never a "stand and deliver" or a cargo scan.
I've since settled in to a nice private group with like minded commanders, and enjoy my space time there very much.
But I also have a T6 parked up at Leesti which I use for rp in Open. I fly a tub of gold, and if anyone can catch me I stop and see what the encounter will bring. Some blow me up on sight (sad reminder), while some banter. Those I can parlay with get what they want and we both go our merry way, those who are rude and obnoxious get nout and can blow me up (how awesome they are... /sarcasm).
Playing mainly in Group mode means I can afford to rp as a trader in Open and give the dogs something to chase.
The Open commanders should be thankful for my possibillity to switch, or they would not see me at all.
I started out in Open mode. I mainly play as a trader. Made it to a T7, at which point I got tired of being blown to bits when flying on known trade routes. Never a "stand and deliver" or a cargo scan.
I've since settled in to a nice private group with like minded commanders, and enjoy my space time there very much.
But I also have a T6 parked up at Leesti which I use for rp in Open. I fly a tub of gold, and if anyone can catch me I stop and see what the encounter will bring. Some blow me up on sight (sad reminder), while some banter. Those I can parlay with get what they want and we both go our merry way, those who are rude and obnoxious get nout and can blow me up (how awesome they are... /sarcasm).
Playing mainly in Group mode means I can afford to rp as a trader in Open and give the dogs something to chase.
The Open commanders should be thankful for my possibillity to switch, or they would not see me at all.
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The Open commanders should be thankful for my possibillity to switch, or they would not see me at all.
Same here, I have my T6 for open when I am in a sharing mood, there is no way I would start another CMDR if they ever locked the modes, open would just lose one more part time CMDR (with rares to share).
I'm right there with you. I don't like to play games where I'm forced to depend on others ether.
Sorry wrong quote, but you get what I mean.
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Stations and outposts exist (for a given value of existing) independent of the player's instance. They are manifested in a player's instance but they are constants on the galaxy server.
I guess the solution might be that other players have to join the instance of the first player present at the base's location, thus manifesting it.
Like player or guild houses in Everquest 1 & 2, where the house was a small instanced room with an access list controlled by the owner? I suspect the issue with that might be that a certain subset of players don't want to own property, so much as be able to go and blow up someone elses?
I don't know enough about it tbh but that sounds like you'd still have the same problem.
If you have player owned structures they will be attractive to groups of players to own and other groups of players to attack if they can. So they will be busy areas which inevitably means more than one instance by the time the matchmaker has finished faffing around.
And as soon as you get a player owned structure that people in different instances in open end up interacting with we're right back at the ghost army argument - before we consider what is happening in other modes or xbox.
So in the owner's instance they're repelling boarders as best they can but they can't do anything about the people who are simultaneously unopposed in another instance.
And people would find that much more aggravating than they do with PP and CGs.
I guess it's off topic but I just can't see how they could make it work in the way people would want.
Maybe in CQC - would the mechanics of CQC be any different perhaps?
One thing that will certainly make players in all mode happy is to have better PvE content. Even though I play in Open but most of my game play is PvE because of time zone and P2P structure.
Sharing same universe between modes make it very frustrated for PP on top of grindy nature, it's basically PvP with invisible enemies lol.
Sharing same universe between modes make it very frustrated for PP on top of grindy nature, it's basically PvP with invisible enemies lol.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Personally IF there was to be player owned stuff i would like player own stuff to be stored on our own personal save, and so are NOT actually part of the PU. This would mean they do not really exist as far as anyone else is concerned but still means i can have stuff, with no downsides to anyone else.
when I flew into the vicinity of my base to everyo
ne else it would just look like i logged out. Maybe i could have a flag to allow friends access IF they are in my instance or wing.
My feeling is i would not want this stuff polluting the open game however.
There was a game i used to play on the amiga, and all i remember doing was finding stuff to put in my house (this was not the point of the game at all) I think it was maybe damocles but not sure.
but my point is, having a home base we can get stuff for and deck out could be cool, esp if on a planet - but again, this is not really elite in the truest sense and imo anything we did should be stored on our personal save and not the PU imo. would be fab to have all our ships parked around our home however.
I play a lot of SWTOR, when EA/Bioware introduced the player housing in that to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement. The problem this instanced housing has is that it really has no purpose that relates to the game in any way, and ironically, that is probably one of the reasons I can live with it. Though playing 'house barbies' does not interest me in any way it has zero effect on my game if I chose not to take part/interact with it. To be honest, I think the only reason that EA/Bioware introduced such a feature was to boost sells in the cartel market, (the non pay to win MT's in SWTOR), again this does not detract from my game, or my wallet, but no doubt brings cash in for EA/Bioware. In Elite D, the above sort of solution would be the only variation of player owned bases I could live with, and it could bring money into Frontier via the shop. But, on the other hand, I'm really not sure I want developer time and money spent on something that brings nothing to the core game in itself, sure, we can debate the shop bringing in cash if it was developed but I feel there are much more pressing issues, and many of them, that should come way before 'player housing'.
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