The suggestion (not mine btw) only affected the contribution to the goal, not the individual rewards.
- Status
The suggestion (not mine btw) only affected the contribution to the goal, not the individual rewards.
Oh FD are completely within their rights to do what ever they want with the game.
But the point still stands, KS is based on trust - and if people can prove someone is not trust worthy, they wont get a successful KS pitch going.
That will be a big factor in choices made, like with Offline - FD lost a lot of trust with that problem.
I personally didn't know there was a planned offline game, I never seen the information on it until after I had bought my copy.
But every where you go that has ED adverts are people linking back to the statements of an offline mode and showing ED doesn't have one.
I cannot decide for FD what to do, but I can and shall remind them of what they have said and promises made.
Plus, show those too lazy or ignorant to read up on the game BEFORE buying it (I really don't understand that - how anyone can blindly buy a game then moan about it) that what they bought was clearly labelled and advertised so it is their error.
I'll continue to play the game, until such time I get told who I have to play with. Then quite simply, my answer will be "I choose who I spend my downtime with" and hit the uninstall button.
It really is no problem to me, I have money to spend and I will spend it on those who I can trust and who stand by their word, not those who flip flop about or promise one thing and do another.
I walked away from Star Trek Online because I found out the Devs had lied to us for years. 5 years of my life in that game, and I just quit - I wont waste a single second on people who are proven to have no morals / ethics.
Not sure how many people feel like I do, I have no idea if I'm on my own or part of a large group that would feel the same.
I'd take a stab that those in the Mobius group (all 12,500+) would be upset though... enough to walk? Don't know. Enough to complain? I think so.
More than enough to counter the less than 100 unhappy people here, who despise the modes - even though they were advertised from the start.
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Open has Wings - Solo does not, so a T9 pilot has more risk in Solo where he has no support, unlike one in Open who can get an escort
On the one hand you are right, but that assumes they don't tweak anything along with it, and they constantly do that, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't. I'm not sure that many people would switch though.
I'm not sure why holding fd to "everything should be exactly equal" is really all that wise in the long run, this game will supposedly be developing for 10 years. It could be their own undoing. There is nothing really stopping them though other than people's complaints, but should you want a refund 2 years in or whatever, good luck with that. If it brings more players or money I have no doubt they will do it. It's not like they really lived up to a lot of what was said in the early days, and they crossed the bridge of strictly adhering to that sales pitch, and being misleading long ago.
Which is why I think walls of texts are not worth much on either side. Maybe I'm a bit salty from following since the beginning, but from what I've seen they will do what they please, if that means going back on a promise so be it. I've seen a lot of fd defense force posts claiming they don't, until something they feel is a red line gets crossed and change their minds. I can't even count how many people here used to accuse me of all manner of negativity, outright lies, or other nefarious motives only to now be saying exactly what a lot of us said in beta. Fd are habitual line steppers, give them time they'll do it to you eventually. Frankly you just gotta roll with it.
Oh FD are completely within their rights to do what ever they want with the game.
But the point still stands, KS is based on trust - and if people can prove someone is not trust worthy, they wont get a successful KS pitch going.
That will be a big factor in choices made, like with Offline - FD lost a lot of trust with that problem.
I personally didn't know there was a planned offline game, I never seen the information on it until after I had bought my copy.
But every where you go that has ED adverts are people linking back to the statements of an offline mode and showing ED doesn't have one.
I cannot decide for FD what to do, but I can and shall remind them of what they have said and promises made.
Plus, show those too lazy or ignorant to read up on the game BEFORE buying it (I really don't understand that - how anyone can blindly buy a game then moan about it) that what they bought was clearly labelled and advertised so it is their error.
I'll continue to play the game, until such time I get told who I have to play with. Then quite simply, my answer will be "I choose who I spend my downtime with" and hit the uninstall button.
It really is no problem to me, I have money to spend and I will spend it on those who I can trust and who stand by their word, not those who flip flop about or promise one thing and do another.
I walked away from Star Trek Online because I found out the Devs had lied to us for years. 5 years of my life in that game, and I just quit - I wont waste a single second on people who are proven to have no morals / ethics.
Not sure how many people feel like I do, I have no idea if I'm on my own or part of a large group that would feel the same.
I'd take a stab that those in the Mobius group (all 12,500+) would be upset though... enough to walk? Don't know. Enough to complain? I think so.
More than enough to counter the less than 100 unhappy people here, who despise the modes - even though they were advertised from the start.
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Open has Wings - Solo does not, so a T9 pilot has more risk in Solo where he has no support, unlike one in Open who can get an escort
So other than the fact they said "all modes will be equal" does it really bother you one mode actually has a slight % increase in payout? I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't even slightly care if they did something similar to solo, it's not really how I want to play so who cares what goes on there. A seperate bgs makes more sense because it makes the game more interesting, but tweaking payouts to entice more players into this or that mode, it's whatever, it doesn't effect me.
When you have devs saying that there are no right mode and all are equal than they start giving one mode more payouts and advantages.. that signifies that a certain mode IS the right one to play in and that they are NOT equal.
Without the contribution of solo and group players many CGs would simply not reach tier 1 - nobody gets a credit. Not the solo players, not the open mode players. No rewards. No reason to participate in a community goal. No CG: no "emergent gameplay" for open mode players.
Should a CG reach tier 1 the overall success of the CG would be lower if the contribution of solo and group players only counted as 50%. Again everybody, including the open mode players would suffer.
BTW: I'm participating in the Bacon CG in Open Mode. I hope that a lot of players in Solo mode realize that this is a fun CG and that their contribution is needed and appreciated. Profits are low - as it has been in most of the recent CGs - but it is fun. A cool idea form a player group. It's worth spending some time and energy into it for the community.
Why would they not contribute? In protest? Your viewing it as lopping 50% from solo, when it could very well be that they would add 50% to open. It was referred to as a bonus I thought. And it also assumes they wouldn't adjust anything. Depending on how they implement it they could make them more successful.
Open has Wings - Solo does not, so a T9 pilot has more risk in Solo where he has no support, unlike one in Open who can get an escort
This is what I thought too, but I've been interdicted in solo twice now by aggressive wings; once by two Sidewinders and an Eagle (I think). The other "set of three" or whatever they are had a Python anchor. Just over the last week or so (pre-patch).
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Got jumped by a wing of 2 NPC condas.. only thing that saved my tail was they were firing missiles at my shields.. then got interdicted by , I want to say it was a Federal Assault Ship, but could have been a drop ship.. I only glanced at the picture.. what ever ordinance it had.. it had my shields gone in 3 hits.. but when it hit my hull it only did 6% damage.. so not sure what weapon that was.. but yikes...
I love how NPC's are "not dangerous" I guess the repair bills i've had are just my imagination.
The open people want a higher reward.. only way I could see it being fair is if this "reward" was based on how much damage their ship has sustained when docking and completing the mission. Of course it would also be available for Solo/Group. Would be interesting to see the #'s of those payouts charted..
Why? it doesn't affect you in Solo.
It doesn't affect you in Private Group.
If you don't care for it in open, it doesn't affect you - you don't feel forced to wing already do you? (The bonus exists in the game right now, do you feel forced to wing?)
It gives additional positive reasons to make friends or play with others. It adds game-play - It gives people who want to be a bounty hunter or escort a means of income and doesn't feel like a waste of time. If you give an increased bonus to people in your wing, then people will choose escort as a profession instead of a role-play gimmick, protecting those who play open from pirates. That's a win-win for traders in open and for standard players.
For those who have no idea what the original comment was about: Do you think they should Increase the trade profit bonus in Open-wings from 5% to something higher?, to incentivize escorts and people to wing up in Open for Protection + Friendship. The trader doesn't get more profit, the people in his wing do.
Now... on to the equality part
Are you going to complain that there is a wing trade bonus already in private + open and solo doesn't get this bonus? oops didn't see that one coming hey, so much for your equality
see who is selfish now, you would see other modes pulled down.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Why restrict the increased Wing bonus to Open? (other than to create a disparity between the two modes which have Wings, of course....)
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The trade bonus is meant to serve as an incentive for people to play as escorts/fighters to help traders, not as a pure profit bonus to traders.
If the incentive existed in private groups - the same amount as Open. You will just see those wings formed in Open switching to Private. e.g Why bother with escorts in Open when you can have 4 traders in Private group - the need for escorts exists purely because of threat of attack from other players around CG / high trade routes, but nobody wants to be an escort because they DON'T GET PAID.
The wing bonus is a smart way to pay escorts and other players, without cutting into the traders profits. It provides incentive for escorts without people saying "I don't want to pay them! or bother!"
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... and what's the problem with that? They would be escorting traders - in either of the two modes which support Wings.
Mode mobility is a core game feature, the developers are on record as saying that there is no "right" way to play the game, the developers are also on record as saying that all game modes are equal and valid and every player is encouraged to "play the game how you want to".
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Seriously, do you know what the word "Equal" means.. there are 3 modes, Each are slightly different but are balanced and as equal as Fdev can make them. Fdev has claimed TIME AND TIME AGAIN.. that there is no right mode. You keep trying to pull the wool over people's eyes and say it only adds and doesn't take anything away. Do you realize that the ONLY difference between the three modes is how they see people.. EVERYTHING ELSE is the same.. did you know that if they changed it in solo that you could see others.. *Gasp* they would be able to wing up..
now you want to try and get Fdev to alter that. To benefit one mode vs the others. To create a lot more work because now instead of having it so when updates are done you can do once and it hits all modes.. now you have to separate.. edit to solo/private and then edit to Open. Things are no longer equal. Time is increased more money is spent to make Open "special" and one mode gets unofficial support as the "right mode". You already have your special mode.. CQC.. it is PVP pure and simple.. but that isn't enough.. Open needs to be special too ..
Saying it makes friends and play with each other is false.. It doesn't add gameplay.. it adds a way for people to grind credits. Get in a group in open with your special % and go where PVP isn't happening and with no risk .. just rake in the credits.. kind of like your solo trading endeavor that you complain that others can do after you did it... reward without consequences.
You may want to take the selfish comment back, mainly because the only way to see who the selfish one is, is to look in a mirror. Who did things then complains about others being able to do it, who wants PVErs to be their targets, who wants a special reward for wings in Open to benefit themselves.. who wants, wants, wants,... the answer is simple... You.
Hello,
<IMHO>
Give it up people.
1.4 is a clear indication that Open/Group has won, Solo is going down. CQC is multi-player only, so now there is a new way to rank up and make some (very little) credits for multi-player pvp players (which basically means Open wins.)
There, open players want more credits, here you go. You can get your extra 5% here.
Why need to incentivize wings? If you're going to, might as well go for gold and ask for 100% wing bonus for Open, reasoning could be "everybody is trying to kill each other so we need more incentive to work together, cause we can't otherwise."
Currently, you can't join an NPC wing so Solo players are penalized. Solo players didn't get their NPC wings probably cause FD is working really hard on looking after their Open players.
So, you're right. Open != Group != Solo. Open > Group > Solo.
</IMHO>
Have fun, fly safe.
P.S.: It's just a game. Don't like where it's going? No longer, entertaining? No longer what you initially bought into? Do what I do. Move along, find a new game, enjoy and never come back. That way I get to keep fond memories and enjoy new things.
<IMHO>
Give it up people.
1.4 is a clear indication that Open/Group has won, Solo is going down. CQC is multi-player only, so now there is a new way to rank up and make some (very little) credits for multi-player pvp players (which basically means Open wins.)
There, open players want more credits, here you go. You can get your extra 5% here.
Why need to incentivize wings? If you're going to, might as well go for gold and ask for 100% wing bonus for Open, reasoning could be "everybody is trying to kill each other so we need more incentive to work together, cause we can't otherwise."
Currently, you can't join an NPC wing so Solo players are penalized. Solo players didn't get their NPC wings probably cause FD is working really hard on looking after their Open players.
So, you're right. Open != Group != Solo. Open > Group > Solo.
</IMHO>
Have fun, fly safe.
P.S.: It's just a game. Don't like where it's going? No longer, entertaining? No longer what you initially bought into? Do what I do. Move along, find a new game, enjoy and never come back. That way I get to keep fond memories and enjoy new things.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
IYHO, of course.
CQC has no NPCs - it is a custom created out-of-game mode for no-consequence PvP. I don't see how you arrive at "Open wins" - players gain credits in CQC and can then resume their game in whichever mode they please.
The lack of NPC wingmen is a disappointment that it is hoped will be remedied in time - they were discussed in the DDF but, like quite a lot of the DDF, have not yet been implemented.
CQC does not mean people will stop playing Solo or group and doesn't mean Open is the "right" mode.
I guess it's a matter of interpretation.
You could argue that FD have given CQC PVP a small reward with credits to be carried over to the main game.
Once again though (3rd time) they've put the competition in "open" PVP CQC mode which offers nothing for solo players who aren't into PVP - and they've given people 100,000 reasons to want to play it - which is presumably why we're already seeing threads about CQC hacks.
But on the other hand CQC is tacked on and someone playing CQC makes no "progress" in the main game.
So yeah - mixed messages!
You could argue that FD have given CQC PVP a small reward with credits to be carried over to the main game.
Once again though (3rd time) they've put the competition in "open" PVP CQC mode which offers nothing for solo players who aren't into PVP - and they've given people 100,000 reasons to want to play it - which is presumably why we're already seeing threads about CQC hacks.
But on the other hand CQC is tacked on and someone playing CQC makes no "progress" in the main game.
So yeah - mixed messages!
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How to fix player interaction and dynamic gameplay issues in one hit.
Not sure if anyone has posted this before but I am now. Also, first post. Someone told me I should put this here.
TL;DR Right now, the economy's "triangle" of players, if you will, is non-existent. I'm talking about the ecosystem where traders are being interdicted by pirates, those traders are paying bounty hunters to defend them from the pirates. Traders <- Pirates <- Bounty Hunters. With half the traders currently in solo, this ecosystem falls apart. Easiest fix would be to have each mode have its own galaxy, such that progression either mode will not progress the "save file" on the other. This way anyone who is actually interested in the multiplayer at all, will have to take part in the galaxy as they climb to whatever ship they desire instead of hiding in solo unless you have an A grade python or whatever.
I personally bought this game because of the pirating. Please don't read this as a rant, more of a suggestion. I am by no extent going to stop playing this game. Especially with mining looking good after 1.4.
As piracy is a career choice often advertised. Every career choice needs to "pay". Doesn't need to be as good as trading, because if it was, no one would trade. But it shouldn't make nothing in comparison. Pirates simply cannot progress in the game after the asp. Imagine, only by pirating, getting a decent python and trying to save up for the top power plant. Would not happen by christmas no way.
Imagine two friends playing this game together right now. Both get cobras and one gets into trading and the other pirating. The pirater will probably be still stuck in his cobra by the time the other has an anaconda. Especially considering a cobra is not a threat to big traders.
How about we start them both out in asps? Nope. Clippers? Pythons? No, no, no. If there were player traders everywhere, then it would work. Bounty hunters hunting player pirates and protecting player traders for a small fee from the trader would be so much fun. Players policing a real good trade route from the dastardly pirates.
You could have player founded, community collaborations. A really good trade route pops up, the traders know this. But so does everyone else. So on social platforms, either in game or not, traders seeking bounty hunters to defend them. Then the pirates would try to attack these traders maybe, suddenly you've got a 3 way situation of trader/bountyhunter/pirate fighting desperately for those sweet sweet profits. Those are hired hunters, then you've got the free roamers just murdering pirate scum wherever they can. Etc. Which would also be a real thing considering how much bounty pirate's have.
But those dreams are also dead because of solo and open modes. The easy way to fix it is to have separate galaxys for solo and open. Progress in solo having no effect on open progression. Then open trading would be a thing, pirating would be a thing and therefore PvP bounty hunting would be a thing. It would be this domino effect of dynamic gameplay. People who actually just want it to be a solo experience, no problem. People who treat this as an MMO can do so.
Even for the pirates in open it sucks right now so much that traders can just combat log and go solo mode, and be about their business. When you ask for only 30t of their cargo even though they are in type 7 or 9, is it because you don't want him leave the trade route? No. Its because if you demand him to fill your cargo hold with slaves or die, he will likely just defect to solo mode and not come back and guess what Mr. Pirate? You just lost your career choice. Have fun space trucking in solo or have fun flying around pretending like what you are doing is actually useful.
I've tested pirating and bounty hunting (non-RES sites etc, SC bounty hunting) extensively. I have tried so hard to make pirating work. But the amount of time it takes to even find a player trader, let alone finding one worth robbing, let alone one who will cooperate or not combat log (I know this is being looked at, hooray). For example yesterday, best trade route around pretty much, on eddb.io/trade/loops. Sure a few traders came by and i robbed them. Over about 10 hours of play. I was also interdicting NPC's on both ends of the route. I made about 500k. Now if I had've been trading on that same route for that long my profits would been 10000x that. Probably about 50 mill.
I've seen the arguments for fun vs profits and "its not about Cr/Hour min/max" etc. Seriously though? The excuse for not being able to make money is that its fun? What kind of game do we have here when, fun going up means profits going down.
In conclusion: Trading should make more money than pirating, yes. But as it stands right now, pirating is a " fun" thing to do which makes no money. Which is a real shame that the most engaging career of the game does not allow you to progress in it. Simple fix:
Not sure if anyone has posted this before but I am now. Also, first post. Someone told me I should put this here.
TL;DR Right now, the economy's "triangle" of players, if you will, is non-existent. I'm talking about the ecosystem where traders are being interdicted by pirates, those traders are paying bounty hunters to defend them from the pirates. Traders <- Pirates <- Bounty Hunters. With half the traders currently in solo, this ecosystem falls apart. Easiest fix would be to have each mode have its own galaxy, such that progression either mode will not progress the "save file" on the other. This way anyone who is actually interested in the multiplayer at all, will have to take part in the galaxy as they climb to whatever ship they desire instead of hiding in solo unless you have an A grade python or whatever.
I personally bought this game because of the pirating. Please don't read this as a rant, more of a suggestion. I am by no extent going to stop playing this game. Especially with mining looking good after 1.4.
As piracy is a career choice often advertised. Every career choice needs to "pay". Doesn't need to be as good as trading, because if it was, no one would trade. But it shouldn't make nothing in comparison. Pirates simply cannot progress in the game after the asp. Imagine, only by pirating, getting a decent python and trying to save up for the top power plant. Would not happen by christmas no way.
Imagine two friends playing this game together right now. Both get cobras and one gets into trading and the other pirating. The pirater will probably be still stuck in his cobra by the time the other has an anaconda. Especially considering a cobra is not a threat to big traders.
How about we start them both out in asps? Nope. Clippers? Pythons? No, no, no. If there were player traders everywhere, then it would work. Bounty hunters hunting player pirates and protecting player traders for a small fee from the trader would be so much fun. Players policing a real good trade route from the dastardly pirates.
You could have player founded, community collaborations. A really good trade route pops up, the traders know this. But so does everyone else. So on social platforms, either in game or not, traders seeking bounty hunters to defend them. Then the pirates would try to attack these traders maybe, suddenly you've got a 3 way situation of trader/bountyhunter/pirate fighting desperately for those sweet sweet profits. Those are hired hunters, then you've got the free roamers just murdering pirate scum wherever they can. Etc. Which would also be a real thing considering how much bounty pirate's have.
But those dreams are also dead because of solo and open modes. The easy way to fix it is to have separate galaxys for solo and open. Progress in solo having no effect on open progression. Then open trading would be a thing, pirating would be a thing and therefore PvP bounty hunting would be a thing. It would be this domino effect of dynamic gameplay. People who actually just want it to be a solo experience, no problem. People who treat this as an MMO can do so.
Even for the pirates in open it sucks right now so much that traders can just combat log and go solo mode, and be about their business. When you ask for only 30t of their cargo even though they are in type 7 or 9, is it because you don't want him leave the trade route? No. Its because if you demand him to fill your cargo hold with slaves or die, he will likely just defect to solo mode and not come back and guess what Mr. Pirate? You just lost your career choice. Have fun space trucking in solo or have fun flying around pretending like what you are doing is actually useful.
I've tested pirating and bounty hunting (non-RES sites etc, SC bounty hunting) extensively. I have tried so hard to make pirating work. But the amount of time it takes to even find a player trader, let alone finding one worth robbing, let alone one who will cooperate or not combat log (I know this is being looked at, hooray). For example yesterday, best trade route around pretty much, on eddb.io/trade/loops. Sure a few traders came by and i robbed them. Over about 10 hours of play. I was also interdicting NPC's on both ends of the route. I made about 500k. Now if I had've been trading on that same route for that long my profits would been 10000x that. Probably about 50 mill.
I've seen the arguments for fun vs profits and "its not about Cr/Hour min/max" etc. Seriously though? The excuse for not being able to make money is that its fun? What kind of game do we have here when, fun going up means profits going down.
In conclusion: Trading should make more money than pirating, yes. But as it stands right now, pirating is a " fun" thing to do which makes no money. Which is a real shame that the most engaging career of the game does not allow you to progress in it. Simple fix:
- Solo and Open Play now have separate progress files.
- Status