Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

Yea I wasn't thinking about respawn camping outside of the no fire zone. maybe I was being daft.

Well, we all have off days.

Even I'm not perfect, but don't tell anyone

Anyway, I gave 2 other solutions, you didn't mention anything, is there any blatantly obvious things I'm missing with those?

Sorry, had not given it much thought. At first glance, providing anti abuse measures are taken, your ideas seem ok. Will give some more in detail thoughts now.

But if that really is the issue, there are pretty easy ways to balance it. it could be balanced around ship size, 1 for a sidewinder, 15 for an anaconda, which tbh is what they should have done to begin with, for both npc and cmdr. If a player wants to lose dozens of condas and waste all that money, he's welcome to do so. If he's using free sidewinders, it will be a lot less than possible just killing npcs.

Different sizes worth different merits makes sense. After all a Novice Sidewinder, not exactly a drawn out fight, I don't think my Beams would even warm up. An Elite Anaconda however, takes some effort and ammo (Well, they do since Sarah J started tinkering with them for the NPCs ).

How to do this with players though, will be tricky with all the factors to consider.
A player in a Python, who earns it in Solo will be easier to kill than one who earns it in Open - So, you could kill the first in short order the second would take a lot more effort, so how does that translate into merits?

Perhaps separate Pilots Fed ranks for PvE and PvP maybe? Then base merits from that?

It could also be 10-20% of the merits the cmdr is carrying on him for combat expansion or however much cargo is being carried npc or cmdr for trade expansion. It wouldn't be open to abuse in those cases.

This is also a good idea in theory, gives a more solid foundation for PvP - stealing merits/vouchers. Kind of a mix of piracy / bounty hunting but based in PP and not just randomness of the vanilla game.

I'd say those percentages are a bit low at first glance, but not having any actual numbers to work with - it's hard to know what is right / fair.

 

[gMcizzLe]

That is as ridiculous a line of reasoning as an extrovert telling an introvert they are just that way because they don't go outside much. (I have heard that actually said before). Who are you to tell someone they need a psychiatrist because they do not like to go out and socialize with people or because they fear things happening? How do you know if people who have been dealing with issues and DO see psychiatrists to help them play the game. There are people in the world who fear leaving their house because of violence that is near them, to you they are not right in the head, who in the world do you think you are? What magical unicorn bathed you in the brilliance of it's rainbow fart to decide the proper mental status of people and how they want to play a GAME?


And in game, there are people who PLAY THE WAY THEY WANT TO PLAY IT. SOLO/PRIVATE/OPEN Of all the crap said on this thread, YOUR comment about solo players is about the one thing that has really been out of line and offensive.


You want to know about me...I AM one of those who see a therapist. I can't play COD, Modern Warfare, Battlefield or any of these modern combat first person shooters. You want to know why? Because EVERY TIME a teammate dies, in my head I re live escorting coffins out of aircraft, then folding the flags draped over those coffins and burying people I know with full military honors. I've been playing online games since they first came out. I played in the original Ultima Online and the PK horrors, I dealt with EVE and the gank squads, I dealt with PVP advocates in many games and I'm sick and tired of the arrogant little PVP jerks like you who think your way of playing is how everyone should play. Solo players do not advocate that Open players be forced to play solo, Private group players do not advocate that Open players be forced to play in Private group. ONLY some open players seem to feel they have the bloody right to advocate forcing others to play THEIR way. YOU SIR are the problem here, NOT the modes of play in Elite Dangerous, NOT the Solo players, NOT the Private Group players, NOT most of the Open players, and NOT most of the PVPers.

Actually I am very introverted outside of gaming, but I probably would be considered an extrovert in gaming only because I play multiplayer games exclusively. I didn't say it was abnormal to not like going outside, I said refusing to is - big difference. If you don't like interacting with other players, no problem, just find one of the 400 million odd systems in the game where nobody else is and have fun. But to lock yourself in a cage where there is no possibility of coming into contact with another player ever IS abnormal, sorry. That is called solitary confinement, and is considered the cruelist form of torture, because humans are fundamentally social animals.

I didn't mean to sound condescending to those who need psychiatric help, and in fact I think multiplayer games can be a great form of therapy. I have strong opinions about games that I care about and want to succeed well into the future, so my apologies if you were somehow offended; I don't think I was more out of line than calling someone a "little PvP jerk" though. I do enjoy PvP, but there are more ways to interact with players, namely working together towards some goal, which happens everywhere outside of gaming (does Frontier have 1 developer?).

The reason I want everyone to play in Open mode is because that is what builds a long-lasting community and helps the game grow going into the future. If there were no multiplayer mode, do you think most people would pay $8 for a skin that only they could see? Doubt it. Again, if you want to play alone, there are plenty of systems to choose from, but please do be part of the game's community.

 

[Raduk]

And u dont understand the CORE game mechanics cause they doesnt suit you ;p

I understand the core game mechanics just fine; and they have nothing to do with switching between solo and open. Considering that I have never played Solo or Private; I have to wonder if you even know what "Core game mechanics" even means. I seem to have done just fine getting to the point of owning the two most expensive ships in the game with millions of credits to spare without even participating in these "core game mechanics" that you mention.

 

[fademist]

The reason I want everyone to play in Open mode is because that is what builds a long-lasting community and helps the game grow going into the future. If there were no multiplayer mode, do you think most people would pay $8 for a skin that only they could see? Doubt it. Again, if you want to play alone, there are plenty of systems to choose from, but please do be part of the game's community.

and u miss the CORE MECHANIC and SALE point of this game along the devs-DB's statements that wont change them right?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Considering that I have never played Solo or Private; I have to wonder if you even know what "Core game mechanics" even means.

oh yes you did, when you first created your CMDR and clicked on Open, you spawned in your noob system in Solo mode. So, if you want a Pure Only-Purest-Open-Only-Who-Have-Never-Been-To-CheatMode-Solo Players mode, you'd have to kick yourself out of it

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

SO you describe the level playing field while saying it isn't a level playing field *headdesk*

Saying solo is easy because players are not there to kill you is like saying Vanilla ice cream isn't really ice cream because there is no chocolate in it.

I wouldn't necessarily call it as that; more like Open Play is the true to the touch experience, while Solo is more of a more direct experience just solely tied to the individual Player.

 

[fademist]

I understand the core game mechanics just fine; and they have nothing to do with switching between solo and open. Considering that I have never played Solo or Private; I have to wonder if you even know what "Core game mechanics" even means. I seem to have done just fine getting to the point of owning the two most expensive ships in the game with millions of credits to spare without even participating in these "core game mechanics" that you mention.

good for you and still if u knew what is the core mechanics of this game YOU wont ask/yell to change them so u can have ur type of game from the start

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't necessarily call it as that; more like Open Play is the true to the touch experience, while Solo is more of a more direct experience just solely tied to the individual Player.

solo is the old elite

 

[Dave1235]

What's the point of this post?

His connection is so bad he will ruin other peoples game and would rather not? I would guess he thinks others might accuse him of hacking maybe to kill them by lag?

 

[Jockey79]

I understand the core game mechanics just fine; and they have nothing to do with switching between solo and open. ...

Erm....

I take it you know nothing of the history of the game and how / why it got made.
I did post all the information, more than once.
Page 1, Post 3 - please read that for "the core" game and how it was built on mode switching.

 

[Raduk]

What's the difference between logging off, running to a far-off part of the game and logging into solo mode, in practice? They all mean you're not going to find that person. Even if they remain in open, there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that you will ever see them again. Back when I gave a damn about PvP when playing WoW, the chance of being in the same tiny part of the same area of the same continent at the same time as someone against whom I had a 'vendetta' was negligible. Besides, if you lose against a group or against a single better pilot or whatever, big deal, you lost one. If you win the fight, yay you. Is revenge in a game really that important? Enough that FD should revise the concept they've stuck with for the last 2+ years and sink time, money and effort into rewriting the game (and, by necessity, having to provide future back story to fit however many diverging universes we create in our isolated modes) to make allowances for your poor wittle bruised ego?


You do know you can't 'win' this game, right? There's no end game and no programmed risk vs reward. There's only "do I enjoy this?" If the answer is 'yes', keep doing it when it suits you. If it's 'no', stop. Why read more into playing a game than having fun playing a game?

There is a world of difference. Actually finding the person isn't the point; it's the hunt. It's the planning, the making a list, the knowledge that you could indeed catch this player alone or at a time when you have a group. That the person is "out there" someplace that you could find. That in order for that person to advance, they will potentially come across you again. Knowing that these actions could be entirely futile since the person may only pop into open on occasion; detracts from the game.

I'm of course expressing an opinion throughout this entire thread. As are all of you. In my opinion it's disappointing that Open mode is really nothing more than a PVP mode. I had higher expectations is all. I've more than gotten my $59.99 out of this game, no doubt, so it's hard to complain too much. It's hard to believe that the ability to restrict moving from one mode to another would drastically destroy two years of development; and considering they obviously follow Agile, it's something that if enough people continue to clamor for will eventually happen.

 

[gMcizzLe]

Although phasing is quite common in MMOs these days, so you may actually be in the same spot as other players but unable to see them. And many MMOs use multiple servers, so you are not able to meet other players except in cross-server instances. ED is no less an MMO than other online games due to this.

It also sounds like you only want to interact with other players, that the NPCs don't really matter. However, we players are supposed to be a minor part of the entities in the game, something that may set ED apart from many MMOs (and something I like it for). Why don't you pirate/bounty hunt NPCs if you can't find players? Seems a bit extreme to call solo mode a game killer.

S

True, it is common in many "MMOs" these days, which is why I rarely take any of them seriously. I think (old) WoW did a fantastic job at zoning and player interactions, as well as many other little things that made it such a special game.

I don't mind NPCs, since it's such a huge game universe that if there weren't any it would take ages to get anything done. I loved open world co-op group quests that many games implemented, such as Guild Wars 2 and Warhammer Online. I can see that being a possibility in ED, maybe with like waves of NPC pirate ships attacking some area or something that players must defend an objective from, that could be fun.

 

[Dave1235]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You want to play with just your friends? Go for it. You want to play with yourself? Go for it. I'm simply stating that one shouldn't have the ability to impact my game by killing me with a group of people; and then when they are all alone being able to hide someplace that I will never be able to find them.

And oh noes you don't want to play with me. I don't tend to suffer fools so it's likewise I'm sure.

"shouldn't have the ability to impact my game" Its not your game.

Can you tell us how many times this imaginary situation has happened to you and how you realised it was occurring? (and why you didn't realise there was only 1 BGS and 3 modes, that you can pick on a session by session basis?).

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

if its 100 cr is bad (thats more likely but wont take a vow for it)
for sure military strike is 100...
now to the point u lose money for powerplay to make the X power stronger...thats the bad of PP mainly for me..unless u have find a good trade/preparation system route ;p

You can make 5 mil or 50 mil for getting to rank 4 (1200 merits) and 5 (10, 000 merits), respectively. That helps a little bit, but for most that's pretty hard to reach.

 

[Mouse]

Actually I am very introverted outside of gaming, but I probably would be considered an extrovert in gaming only because I play multiplayer games exclusively. I didn't say it was abnormal to not like going outside, I said refusing to is - big difference. If you don't like interacting with other players, no problem, just find one of the 400 million odd systems in the game where nobody else is and have fun. But to lock yourself in a cage where there is no possibility of coming into contact with another player ever IS abnormal, sorry. That is called solitary confinement, and is considered the cruelist form of torture, because humans are fundamentally social animals.

SO your solution for those not wanting to interact with other players is to force people to outlaying areas.. talk about abnormal. Playing SOLO is not solitary confinement that analogy is ludicrous. Some people are solitary some are not.. quite trying to force people to do things your way. ANd Refusing to go outside, is a known issue for some people, they are NOT abnormal.

I didn't mean to sound condescending to those who need psychiatric help, and in fact I think multiplayer games can be a great form of therapy. I have strong opinions about games that I care about and want to succeed well into the future, so my apologies if you were somehow offended; I don't think I was more out of line than calling someone a "little PvP jerk" though. I do enjoy PvP, but there are more ways to interact with players, namely working together towards some goal, which happens everywhere outside of gaming (does Frontier have 1 developer?).

You have a strong opinion, that is great, but forcing that opinion on others is a no. You were not condescending, you were out right rude, and I don't' mean to me, I mean to those who may never post and as they read the threads they read your comments. Your comments were completely uncalled for. Calling someone a jerk is way, way minute vstelling people that they need psychiatric help. If my jerk comment woke you up then good that is what it was meant to do. I'm glad you enjoy PVP, quit trying to force others too as well.

The reason I want everyone to play in Open mode is because that is what builds a long-lasting community and helps the game grow going into the future. If there were no multiplayer mode, do you think most people would pay $8 for a skin that only they could see? Doubt it. Again, if you want to play alone, there are plenty of systems to choose from, but please do be part of the game's community.

We have a community with 3 modes, some are trying to tear it apart and make them 3 separate, but trying to force everyone into 1 mode is utter crap as well, your not "building a community". And you would be surprised at how many people pay money all the time for skins only they can see. As for your last comment.. WE are all part of the game's community. Some are just in other areas. Quite trying to force people into your mode of playing.

 

[fademist]

You can make 5 mil or 50 mil for getting to rank 4 (1200 merits) and 5 (10, 000 merits), respectively. That helps a little bit, but for most that's pretty hard to reach.

still if u calculate what cost u and ur ship running costs to reach 1500 merit i dont say 10k (for that u need 100m cr so u lose 50m ) u lose cr not much but u lose imo that needs a litle fix

 

[gMcizzLe]

First of all the only "ever" claims I see are "I only ever play Open". Most Solo players will also play other modes. I don't play Open but I play Group almost as much as I play Solo.

I post quite a lot on this forum but I do it on my terms. You can't make me write something that I don't want to write, you can't affect the words I use or get in the way of my sentence structure but you can change the way that I play in the game. Totally different situations.

How often I leave my house or speak to other people is absolutely no business of yours, nor is it your place to speculate on my sanity. Likewise, how I choose to play the game that I paid for is no business of yours either. Play your own game and keep your nose out of mine and my life.

If you don't care about future updates to the game and its continued development, then fine, go play Solo and don't concern yourself with anything here. However, I do care about the future of this game and its continued development, and I know that games with split or limited communities do not last very long, so if you want to blame me for actually giving a crap about this game's future then so be it.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Quit trying to force people into your mode of playing.

It's all part of the metagame. It's been going on since before Alpha, and it will continue pretty much forever. Some people are determined to try and make Elite into what they want it to be, and they will make sound and fury about it until the Devs make the game into what they want it to be. Fortunately, the Devs have read Macbeth.

 

[Yaffle]

All

A reminder of the first post (which I know was a long way away now):

Important rules for this thread​

The forum rules apply as usual in this thread, but we'd like to highlight some specific points:

• Stay polite and topic. Baiting, insulting or swearing will result in a direct infraction. No warnings, no nice private messages. Baiting includes dead horse references, use of the words "easy mode" or "carebear", accusations of griefing, and picture spam.
• Please do not indulge in pejorative comments about players from *any* of the platforms on which the game has been, or will be (or even might be), released
• Remember how hard it is to read emotion on the Internet. For example, make sure to show your respect for people when disagreeing about whether the group system disqualifies this game as an MMO
• For technical reasons, this thread will be closed and another opened if it goes over 10,000 posts (see the previous thread). This is a server limitation, not a comment about how contentious the thread is at that point
• If you feel a post violates the forum rules, click "report this post" and do not reply

I've deleted a load of baiting/trolling/sniping and rude posts. Please feel free to discuss the topic but do it without the condescension and rudeness.

 

[Dave1235]

<snip>

It's hard to believe that the ability to restrict moving from one mode to another would drastically destroy two years of development; and considering they obviously follow Agile, it's something that if enough people continue to clamor for will eventually happen.

Read page 1, post 1 & 3, it will all make sense!

 

[Jockey79]

If you don't care about future updates to the game and its continued development, then fine, go play Solo and don't concern yourself with anything here. However, I do care about the future of this game and its continued development, and I know that games with split or limited communities do not last very long, so if you want to blame me for actually giving a crap about this game's future then so be it.

Interesting hyperbole and non-sense.

The game was built on the premise of Solo/ Group/ Open.
Go read the Kickstarter - or for even less work, Page 1 Post 3 in this very thread.

So don't you worry yourself about continued development of the game, the Solo and Group players who funded it to start with will make sure it does not go down without a fight