Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[QziQza]

While not exactly what I was thinking this would be a great addition. They could make the Condor as a playable ship just for the NFF part. That would be cool. Then DB could say something about how cool that would be and that it will allow explorers to have some fun in addition to the fun they have scanning icy planets

would also give me something productive to do with this list of names i've been generating from this thread for a while well, if they ever do NFF..

 

[QziQza]

Their is PvP that is defined as a warrior looking to battle an (hollow icon) opponent. And their is PvP that is defined as attacking anything that is a hollow icon on the radar.

Both get confused with being the same as the other so bear with my breakdown:

A warrior will seek out an opponent and challenge them. Simple right? Find a hollow icon worthy of a fight, issue a statement that they are about to be attacked and let the games begin. Or, enter a conflict zone and choose a side. Anything that is red is fair game. And once again, let the games begin.

A coward will seek out any hollow icon that can easily be defeated and attack without provocation. The "battle" seldom lasts longer than a few seconds. Conflict zones with strong opponents are seldom sought out as their is no opportunity to "sucker punch" anyone.

I play in Mobius. If I want to engage in PvP while in the group, all I need to do is seek out a conflict zone that has a bunch of hollow icons and pick the opposing side. Pretty simple.

Of course their will be those who complain that it's too hard to find a conflict zone and it's easier to just find a "target rich" environment. IE: Starter systems full of weaker ships or trade routes that are full of greedy traders that run without shields or weapons.

So in a nutshell: Understanding PvP is more about clarifying how PvP is viewed by people engaging in it:

Those who wish honest battle, and those who wish to play "The knockout game".

Well, that's how I see it.

Fly well Cmdrs.

Actually that seem like a very simple way of splitting down the basic ethos of PKers, i wonder if there is any way to calculate out 'Warrior, Wannabee Ratio' in this game? be cool if they include a rankings table in CQC ? Ooh, would be even better if they were able to show what mode each player is in most, would be able to take all sorts of things away from that kind of ranking information

 

[Riktar]

Actually that seem like a very simple way of splitting down the basic ethos of PKers, i wonder if there is any way to calculate out 'Warrior, Wannabee Ratio' in this game? be cool if they include a rankings table in CQC ? Ooh, would be even better if they were able to show what mode each player is in most, would be able to take all sorts of things away from that kind of ranking information

Oh yes!! This +1

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
So in a nutshell: Understanding PvP is more about clarifying how PvP is viewed by people engaging in it:
…

Understanding the different types of PvP player is part of it. The developer then has to decide what type of PvP is wanted and encouraged in the game and how to discourage or prevent the other type form happening and how this PvP affects all other aspects of the game. Simply allowing players to attack each other is not enough.
So in a nutshell: I agree with what you wrote.

would also give me something productive to do with this list of names i've been generating from this thread for a while well, if they ever do NFF..

I don't understand why somebody creates a list of names. I might try it one day, so many create lists with names on it that I start to think that it might be something fun.

Anyway, I guess we will see each other in NFF if FD creates something like that and if the instancing allows it

 

[QziQza]

Understanding the different types of PvP player is part of it. The developer then has to decide what type of PvP is wanted and encouraged in the game and how to discourage or prevent the other type form happening and how this PvP affects all other aspects of the game. Simply allowing players to attack each other is not enough.
So in a nutshell: I agree with what you wrote.



I don't understand why somebody creates a list of names. I might try it one day, so many create lists with names on it that I start to think that it might be something fun.

Anyway, I guess we will see each other in NFF if FD creates something like that and if the instancing allows it

i have aspergers.. i even have a list of lists

 

[SteveLaw]

I don't understand why somebody creates a list of names.

Nothing wrong with a list of names. If it's good enough for Arya Stark, it's good enough for me*.

* I don't have a list of names. I don't even have a shopping list.

 

[Cody]

I don't understand why somebody creates a list of names.

I have a list of names - it's called my ignore list.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… i even have a list of lists

That's cool meta

 

[Jockey79]

I'm in Legoland, Winsor.

After knowing it will be busy and that it is open to the public, I'm going to demand the path be closed just for me. They should support Solo people more and not force others on me.

So they must kick all the other paying customers out right now.

That is how this works right?

 

[CMDR Derrida]

I'm in Legoland, Winsor.

After knowing it will be busy and that it is open to the public, I'm going to demand the path be closed just for me. They should support Solo people more and not force others on me.

So they must kick all the other paying customers out right now.

That is how this works right?

Ha ha, is that a reference to Kafka's 'The Trial' by any chance? Was just thinking how much this thread reminds me of that novel

 

[Dave1235]

<snip> But PvE game play and combat doesn't work that good in a PvP situation and Open mode allows PvP. The result is a game that is PvE balanced and optimized while many players in Open consider it a PvP game - PvP is allowed and encouraged after all.

Many people in open may consider it a PVP game, that does not make it so.

I agree PVP is allowed, but not necessarily that it in encouraged, if FD gave twice the merits for killing CMDR's in PP than the AI then I would agree, if I have been reading correctly (not into PP right now) they give zero reward for killing players, but reward for killing AI, would you not see this as FD trying to discourage PVP?

 

[Jockey79]

Ha ha, is that a reference to Kafka's 'The Trial' by any chance? Was just thinking how much this thread reminds me of that novel

Oh, never heard of that novel.
I'm between books right now, so I may have to look for that one.

Thanks :-D

 

[NE1]

Seems like Power Play was made for Open Play, so why allow players to hop in Solo and undermine, prep, and expand without any way of countering or protecting your systems. There's plenty of stuff to do in solo without PP anyway. If you're pledged to a Power, and go into solo, you would remain pledged, but unable to participate in any of the Power Play gameplay, and any actions normally adding to Power Play statistics would be unaffected by your actions. Merits couldn't be earned, but hostile NPCs would remain in hostile systems, and Power Play perks would still be in effect.

Makes more sense to me this way anyway, hope I'm not the only one.

Me and my Bro got talking about this PP and PVP thing last night and while I was for (but not force) PP being PVP, he said how do I know that the PP and instancing mechanics do not always try to instance me with others of my faction 1st so i'm forced to co-op with others of my faction.

Obviously neither of us know how the instancing and pp faction works but it seemed plausible especially as FD have on many occasions suggested they prefer co-op

 

[CMDR Derrida]

Oh, never heard of that novel.
I'm between books right now, so I may have to look for that one.

Thanks :-D

Look out for the 'Parable Before the Law' in The Trial, this was what reminded me somewhat of your comment. I'd recommend it if you like surreal dystopia/utopia universes, however, be warned, it is very dark too. I can't remember if it was Kafka or E.M. Forster who famously said, "There is hope, but none for us". If you liked Terry Gilliam's film, 'Brazil', you'll probably like The Trial (I sound like an Amazon marketing ploy now...People who liked Elite Dangerous, also liked ... ...).

 

[SteveLaw]

Look out for the 'Parable Before the Law' in The Trial, this was what reminded me somewhat of your comment. I'd recommend it if you like surreal dystopia/utopia universes, however, be warned, it is very dark too. I can't remember if it was Kafka or E.M. Forster who famously said, "There is hope, but none for us". If you liked Terry Gilliam's film, 'Brazil', you'll probably like The Trial (I sound like an Amazon marketing ploy now...People who liked Elite Dangerous, also liked ... ...).

(I've already added it to my list as a result of this thread - I looked it up. )

 

[Yaffle]

Look out for the 'Parable Before the Law' in The Trial, this was what reminded me somewhat of your comment. I'd recommend it if you like surreal dystopia/utopia universes, however, be warned, it is very dark too. I can't remember if it was Kafka or E.M. Forster who famously said, "There is hope, but none for us". If you liked Terry Gilliam's film, 'Brazil', you'll probably like The Trial (I sound like an Amazon marketing ploy now...People who liked Elite Dangerous, also liked ... ...).

We are off topic, but would add that all of Kafka's books are worth a read. The Trial and The Castle stand out for me, but the shorts are good too.

 

[Cody]

<nods sagely>

 

[SteveLaw]

And people complain this thread is useless.

 

[Jex =TE=]

solo should have been proper offline mode

open should be, well as it is now

and groups should be able to be groups in offline or open


the system atm is stupid

This is correct. Solo play (offline) was asked for in development and ignored. A design decision was made by the devs to allow a player, or players, to affect the universe where nothing could be done to stop them. They even allowed them to make huge groups to accomplish this if they wanted. They then cobbled together the worst MP system and stuck us all in it

 

[Mouse]

Seriously? Glad? You probably never thought about the fact that all their recent updates , starting especially 1.2, nothing but interaction. Wings, PP, global events, and now it's a new PVP arena. Not pushing, right? If not pushed, they'd invested in the storyline, quests, content.. But no, FD want interaction, but the problem is the way they chose. Some half offline, mobile casual games have more interaction than we have here, especially PP. They can create a guilds at least, haha, we can't. I say this because my wife plays mobile game, don't know the game name, so, everyone there play solo, kill mobs, gain experience, loot, they have a Guild.. and they can see their position among the other guilds. Best Guild get some bonuses ... casual. What we have here is almost the same, and this makes me very depressing) And don't need legal spam, I'm sure FD will be able to avoid problems with this, if they want to do something that would bring life to the dead, populated space.



Btw, i can understand what soloplayers's want.. safe mode with possibility to go open at any time. Nothing more, im sure) You don't want a good single player game, deep story, interesting plot. You only want to be able to hide, from personal responsibility for example. Knew a pirate, he killed traders in open, but when he goin trade, it was solo.

I have a guild, It's called Mobius. While it is not exactly like the guild your wife's in with her game we do a lot of the same things. We work together, have fun, talk with others. The onlything missing that may be implemented one day is a chat channel vs talking 1 v 1. I also disagree with your assessment of dead, populated space.


As for your comment of solo players, you dont' understand at all. You are taking the actions of one and trying to paint everyone who plays in solo as them. People in solo don't "hide" and they especially don't play in solo to "avoid personal responsibility". People in solo play to enjoy the game and have a myriad of reasons why they prefer solo. The person you are talking about is not really a solo player.

That is a slightly flawed argument.

Are you saying that there is only one instance?
You are either in it or your are playing solo in open?

You are right they might not be able to see everyone in that area in the instance they are in, but it would be pretty likely that in another instance there will be others players doing the "mano o mano" countering.

Either way, its still more FAIR for people in open to at least have a chance to be in an instance as someone who is working against them.

And before you say you don't like non consensual PVP, I don't like being undermined when I cannot counter it in any other way but grinding in the other direction.

Stop forcing your play style on me ( Irony )

What part of PP being a PVE experience not a PVP one do you not get? The grindy way you do not want to do is HOW you do PP. You are wanting to change PP to fit your play style. And there is no irony in your "Stop forcing your play style on me" comment, it is just pure fallacy as no one has forced their play style on you. You are the one trying to force others into a play style.

This is correct. Solo play (offline) was asked for in development and ignored. A design decision was made by the devs to allow a player, or players, to affect the universe where nothing could be done to stop them. They even allowed them to make huge groups to accomplish this if they wanted. They then cobbled together the worst MP system and stuck us all in it

Everyone in Solo effects everyone in Open just as everyone in Open effects everyone in Solo. We all effect the universe the same. You are trying to make solo and private sound like some huge detremental thing when in reality they are good parts of this game. Just because you play in open doesn't' mean everyone should and in no way were you "stuck" in it. You made a choice.