Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Janichsan]

So you don't play games to get better??

Better at what? At playing games? To what purpose?

Does being good in games get me social recognition? Does it help me lead a successful life? Are the skills acquired by piloting a virtual space craft applicable in real life? Has Elite become a competitive sport, with which I can earn my livelyhood?

 

[Mohrgan]

Kerrash, how about not offering to help improve their skills so they can enjoy open. Maybe you could just help them enjoy what ever mode or method they wish to use. A lot of what has been going on in this thread is breaking down the opinion of some players, that open is the preferred mode, and that steps should be taken to populate open, and that there is something lacking in the players that choose to not use open.

 

[Asp Explorer]

CQC is still meat - what seems to have happened is that all the salads and sides have been removed from the table in that room.

I'm not so sure, I think we'll see plenty of vegetables in there

 

[Cody]

... the devs are adding more meat, just the wrong kind imo.

I'm inclined to agree, but I'd wager that our definitions of 'meat' differ! <grins>

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

CQC is still meat - what seems to have happened is that all the salads and sides have been removed from the table in that room.

Yea but that's like someone complaining there's not enough meat in their hamburger, so you take the burger away and bring out a steak. The steak may be meat, but it's completely different from a burger. It also won't satisfy in the same way.

 

[Roybe]

The game does have meat(pvp), in it. I enjoy a fair amount of pvp in the game. It's not particularly balanced or plentiful, but it's certainly not absent. Now with CQC the devs are adding more meat, just the wrong kind imo.

No, it actually does not. PvP pew pew is not 'part' of the game. You make no extra credits, merits, or any other gameplay currency for participating in PvP pew pew. This is a meat substitute (in our analogy). If this was actually meat in the game...you would be paid for your effort to kill another player. You are not....because the designers do not want PvP pew pew to have any meaning, past RP.

Again, in our analogy...the ONLY meat in the game is PvP contests that are decided by collecting PvE trophies.

What I say....does give PvP players a very sick feeling in their stomach... because it is the ONLY true answer to this debate. PvP is not a supported play style. It never has been and never will be. I wish it wasn't so, however, I am now living within the purposeful and protected, design of this game..

Enjoy everyone!

 

[relayer]

A few people might view it in terms of difficulty, but that's only one of a huge number of reasons, the biggest reason being simple lack of interest in multiplayer with random strangers on the internet.

<snip>

how good you are is nowhere near as important as how good you are to play with.

The pushy-open crowd throws "you just don't understand" at us over & over, implying that we are too dumb to know what they're saying/proposing. We aren't. That contingent persists in this error/opinion when it is demonstrably false; it's just to get a rise out of you.

From my view, it appears as if that crowd doesn't understand the simple part: we play different games. We play them differently, and we each enjoy our game play.

The pleasures of Elite & its descendents were a solitary thing; where the universe just doesn't care about you. So you decide what you want from the game; what gives you pleasure, and you shape your game and role in your own way. That has always been at the core of Elite.

I understand that that crowd just doesn't, can't or won't understand any other way of playing besides PvP-their-way. They cannot take pleasure from the long game; from playing chess rather than checkers; from feeling wonder & awe at the size of our galaxy and its astronomical phenomena. Speed chess is not good chess; it's a clever trick that bypasses the main elements of real chess. That is why many at master's level will not play speed chess.

 

[Robert Maynard]

PvP is not a supported play style. It never has been and never will be.

If by "supported" you mean "able to be practiced on those who do not wish to participate" then no, it is not supported.

PvP is possible in the game, however it cannot be forced upon those who do not wish to participate in it (well, not too often, anyway).

 

[Jockey79]

No, it actually does not. PvP pew pew is not 'part' of the game. You make no extra credits, merits, or any other gameplay currency for participating in PvP pew pew. <snip>

Erm.....

Bounty Hunting?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

One of the best parts of this thread is the analogy amelioration that goes on

 

[Faded Glory]

I think...

I'm getting hungry!

 

[Jockey79]

I think...

I'm getting hungry!

https://hungryhouse.co.uk/

You're welcome

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

No, it actually does not. PvP pew pew is not 'part' of the game. You make no extra credits, merits, or any other gmaeplay currency for participating in PvP pew pew. This is a meat substitute (in our analogy). If this was actually meat in the game...you would be paid for your effort to kill another player. You are not....because the designers do not want PvP pew pew to have any meaning, past RP.

Again, in our analogy...the ONLY meat in the game is PvP contests that are decided by collecting PvE trophies.

What I say....does give PvP players a very sick feeling in their stomach... because it is the ONLY true answer to this debate. PvP is not a supported play style. It never has been and never will be. I wish it wasn't so, however, I am now living within the purposeful and protected, design of this game..

Enjoy everyone!

You're right that it treats pvp unceremoniously, but PvP doesn't exist in a vacuum. It very clearly affects meta of the game, pvp piracy and bounty hunting, make more money than their pve counterparts. Although they are harder, so it balances out. PP pvp doesnt pay anything, and Combat zones pay, I believe the same as an npc, but i could be wrong. Trading, mining, and exploration also don't pay more(kinda hard to set that up since they don't get paid for fighting anyone), That's why pvp is unbalanced.

If it truly wishes to be as you said, a pve trophy farming game, than it would have the risk taken out of pvp. When you die you'd appear back at the station with no loss. no harm no foul. Instead the game wants all the pvp risk but none/only some of the reward, which will just end up open being only for combat and solo/group being for farming like it is now.

 

[Faded Glory]

https://hungryhouse.co.uk/

You're welcome

Well thank you. I just put in my post code, looking for pizza, and it came up with an Indian restaurant!

Now, the real problem, is that although it's my post code, I'm not living there right now, and I don't reckon that 6,000 miles will be within free delivery range.

 

[relayer]

Now just hold on one minute before you begin stoning the guy.

<snip>

If anything, he emphases all players rights to play how they want to. Yes, he does say that the reason for multiple modes is because some players may not have the skills to play in open, but he does not claim that these skills are more than the skills required for solo, just that they are specific to open.

Giving you props for statement #1. I thought the same thing, although I also thought it could have been worded better, which Kerrash appears to have done.

On to #2... there are different skill sets. I am not sure how many open-is-pvp advocates have the skills needed to entertain themselves in a universe like ED in solo. It takes great patience to have a trade goal and accomplish it over a period of months. It takes patience & knowledge to build a ship that is not a cookie-cutter version that depends on spamming SCBs & shield boosters (because that is what PvP always boils down to) and make it work. It takes a certain meditative skill and patience to get pleasure from tooling around in explorer mode observing the beauties of phenomena & charting them over months.

I don't really care if my pvp skillz r ossum; that isn't the game I am playing. Thankfully, FD continues to hold to their core vision for the game. No, it isn't perfect; yes, I have opinions & reservations about some of the mechanics. However, I appreciate the 3 modes more and more as this argument continues.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

there are different skill sets. I am not sure how many open-is-pvp advocates have the skills needed to entertain themselves in a universe like ED in solo. It takes great patience to have a trade goal and accomplish it over a period of months.

I don't need that skill, i have netflix

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
If it truly wishes to be as you said, a pve trophy farming game, than it would have the risk taken out of pvp. When you die you'd appear back at the station with no loss. no harm no foul. Instead the game wants pvp risk but no reward, which will just end up open being only for combat and solo being for farming like it is now.

Seriously for a moment...

It absolutely is a PvE game, as in order to progress through the ranks in any way you have to engage with the environment, whether it's combat, trading or exploration. No one would be anywhere near Elite yet (in combat) if they had to rely on PvP only kills, and the other two professions, well, they are essentially entirely PvE.

PvP combat is possible within the game, it offers that risk, that interaction if you want it, but that's all you can say for it. The fact that FD don't reward it more just confirms what Roybe is saying.

 

[FuzzySpider]

So you don't play games to get better??

Never. I play games to have fun. I don't care if I am the best Barbie Horse Adventures player in the universe I'm not going to play it because I don't find it fun. Not since I found out you can't be Ken in it anyway.

I can't play Chaos Reborn to save my life, but I love it, so I play it a lot.

Really? So you are still in your Sidewinder with class E modules? Surely you must be?

I am in a Cobra Mk3 with class A modules because that's what I have the most fun in.

I have another Cobra at Founders world, as well as two Diamondback scouts (one at Founders, the other at my home base), an anaconda, a FDL, a python, a clipper, a courier, a diamondback scout, two vipers, and a seriously pimped out sidewinder.

But I'm not playing "the best", I'm playing "what is the most fun at the moment?".

I 100% bet that you couldn't kill me If you were in an A Rated Conda and I was in a standard Sidewinder.
Why because I would have seen you coming a mile off, because I learnt in Open what to look for.

I bet he couldn't. I bet I couldn't either. But (and feel free to put me right here Mouse) we simply do not care. The ability to move your joystick a few inches around while making pretty lights flicker on a screen in front of you is not a very valuable skill. Killing "CMDR Teh_Breadtruck!1!!" in a fake space battle isn't the kind of thing you'd brag about to friends to impress them, or something you'd tell your parents to make them proud of you.

 

[relayer]

2. Having 1 more health potion than the other guy

Day-um! I knew I should have checked those cabinets in back of my pilot's chair!

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
I bet he couldn't. I bet I couldn't either. But (and feel free to put me right here Mouse) we simply do not care. The ability to move your joystick a few inches around while making pretty lights flicker on a screen in front of you is not a very valuable skill. Killing "CMDR Teh_Breadtruck!1!!" in a fake space battle isn't the kind of thing you'd brag about to friends to impress them, or something you'd tell your parents to make them proud of you.

I don't know, I've seen a fair bit of bragging on the forums... Sad really.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't care either.