Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Daffan]

It really does happen you know.



NPC's have been known to interdict players too. Then it's one on one, or quite often one against a wing.



Hmm. I have one bank of three, and the only time I FSD out is when I'm very much outnumbered, which happens when you get hostile to a faction at a RES.



I've seen lots of Youtube evidence of CMDRs using gimballed and turreted weapons.



Well, no wonder they can't kill us.



So perhaps Python and Anaconda pilots are a bit safer. Mind, that Youtube evidence doesn't show a great deal of subsystem targeting going on either.



You'll be pleased to hear then that NPC's seem to be quite a bit more nasty in 1.3 beta.

Wow you wrote all this and didin't even read my post it seems - yet you quoted it

Why did you write "I've seen lots of Youtube evidence of CMDRs using gimballed and turreted weapons."

When you cant see other commanders in Solo? My whole post was about how NPCs cant kill you in solo.

gg no re

Ya know mate, this is exactly what it means. Just because the choices aren't balanced to support your agenda, doesn't mean there not balanced. When you log on to this game you have the exact same choices as every other player.
Just because you and others choose to make open your chosen mode of play doesn't make you or anyone else special. Were all equal in this game.

Some people don't like being forced into solo to have a level playing field.

 

[Faded Glory]

Wow you wrote all this and didin't even read my post it seems - yet you quoted it

Why did you write "I've seen lots of Youtube evidence of CMDRs using gimballed and turreted weapons."

When you cant see other commanders in Solo? My whole post was about how NPCs cant kill you in solo.

gg no re

Of course I read your post. Maybe I misunderstood it... You say that NPC's cannot kill you in solo. I, and other posters are simply telling you that you are incorrect.

I presume that what you wrote in your post are the reasons why you think NPC's can't kill you in solo. I simply pointed out that I don't think they are valid reasons, and hopefully explained why. The one you quote back at me is because you imply that you need fixed weapons, which you say NPC's can't use, in order to kill. If you don't mean that, then why do you mention it? I simply pointed out that I've seen videos of CMDRs using gimballed, not fixed weapons, and successfully killing other CMDRs, so it's perfectly feasible that an NPC with gimballed weapons can kill a CMDR.

It's nothing to do with me seeing other CMDRs in solo, which of course I couldn't if I were in solo. I saw video that other people recorded and put up on Youtube.

By the way, are you saying then that NPC's can kill you in Open, just not in solo?

 

[FuzzySpider]

Some people don't like being forced into solo to have a level playing field.

So instead you'd rather force people out of solo?

In any case, consider it a sacrifice for interactivity.

 

[SteveLaw]

Some people don't like being forced into solo to have a level playing field.

Nobody is being forced to do anything, that's the whole point. We have choices.

For every session or activity you have the choice between competitive player interaction, cooperative interaction or no interaction at all. Some of those decrease efficiency through increased competition for the same resources, increased risk or simply distraction and some of them increase efficiency by decreasing that competition, risk or distraction. It is your choice to make at any point. If you aren't happy with that choice, change it. You can freely change play mode at any time with no penalty.

You have to weigh up which is more important to you at any particular time - interaction or CG ranking, bragging rights or credits. Pros and cons. The pros and cons are also different for different people, ranking, "risk" and credits are not factors of my choice, for example, but they do seem to be important to you. Often I feel that I miss interaction in the game and I'm tempted to play Mobius or even Open, but I know that with increased interaction my energy will be drained. I play Group with a small number of friends to minimise the energy drain and Solo to recharge my energy. I make a sacrifice of one thing for something else that is more important to me. I bought the game because it offered that choice. I couldn't play it without it.

You don't get to have it all, that's not how this game works. This game has never worked like that and it's your mistake for buying it if you expect something different, not Frontier's mistake for not making it the type of game you want. If you aren't happy with selective multiplayer games, why did you buy this one?

 

[FuzzySpider]

By the way, are you saying then that NPC's can kill you in Open, just not in solo?

Ignore any comments of NPCs being "easy mode" or some equivalent argument. Not only does this not matter (the game doesn't base rewards on difficulty or else trading wouldn't be so profitable) but SJA has done a superb job on the NPC AI. From the 1.3 update you'll see important differences in how NPCs fight, particularly smaller and agile ships like the Cobras and Vipers.

 

[Jockey79]

My whole post was about how NPCs cant kill you in solo.


Some people don't like being forced into solo to have a level playing field.

Erm, point 1 - yes they can, not all of us can sit at a PC 16 hours a day to practice "l33t" pilot skills. We like to go outside and stuff.

Point 2, when we can all do the same things, it's as level as it can be. Any changes will stop it being level.

 

[Faded Glory]

Ignore any comments of NPCs being "easy mode" or some equivalent argument. Not only does this not matter (the game doesn't base rewards on difficulty or else trading wouldn't be so profitable) but SJA has done a superb job on the NPC AI. From the 1.3 update you'll see important differences in how NPCs fight, particularly smaller and agile ships like the Cobras and Vipers.

Haha, yes, I know. I was in beta a little while ago, and SJA has indeed made them far more tricky. And they'll be in Open too.

You're right, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, there is no easy or difficult mode, it's just a game. But when I see that argument, particularly if it's badly made, I can't seem to resist...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Ya know mate, this is exactly what it means. Just because the choices aren't balanced to support your agenda, doesn't mean there not balanced. When you log on to this game you have the exact same choices as every other player.
Just because you and others choose to make open your chosen mode of play doesn't make you or anyone else special. Were all equal in this game.

No that's not what it means. If I give you the choice between 5, 10, and 20 $, the choices aren't balanced just because you, and everyone I offer that to, can make a choice. It just means everyone gets 20 $ and people stupid enough to choose wrong get less.

 

[fademist]

No that's not what it means. If I give you the choice between 5, 10, and 20 $, the choices aren't balanced just because you, and everyone I offer that to, can make a choice. It just means everyone gets 20 $ and people stupid enough to choose wrong get less.

find a proper example that isnt even near with the argument u want to make

 

[SteveLaw]

No that's not what it means. If I give you the choice between 5, 10, and 20 $, the choices aren't balanced just because you, and everyone I offer that to, can make a choice. It just means everyone gets 20 $ and people stupid enough to choose wrong get less.

You can have $20 and a punch in the face, $10 and a punch in the arm or $5 and no punch at all.

Or slightly more relevantly. $20 and never speak to anyone, $10 and only ever speak to the people you already know, or $5 and be able to speak to anyone you might ever meet in the future.

Which would you choose?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

it really does not matter IF it is 100% balanced or not. The simple fact is, this is an essential feature for some people and is an advertised feature of the game. (the reasons why have been listed time and again)

Even IF it means its a little easier to make money in solo, it is what it is. Dozens of games I play are balanced in favour of multiplayer and competitive PvP types.... but I know this before buying and so guess what..... I do not complain about it. I would not dream of going to the star citizen forums and moan that I feel I will be disadvantaged by not being in a guild, and that guild content needs to go.... because it is clear from the get go it is central to the game

i am sorry for those who do not like it, that is fine, there are lots of things in life I do not like, I either accept it, or I walk away..... but it would be outrageous to remove this option, and to demand it, even now knowing that for some people it would 100% break the game is completly wrong, and v selfish.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

. Or slightly more relevantly. $20 and never speak to anyone, $10 and only ever speak to the people you already know, or $5 and be able to speak to anyone you might ever meet in the future.

Which would you choose?

Unfortunately I'm not locked into a choice so i never have to live with the consequences of my decision. I'll choose 20 $ when I need money, and 5$ when I want to talk to people.

I feel bad for the people who always want to talk to others, now they have to lock themselves away to make money. And the people who hate talking to others just get free money, they get what they want and don't sacrifice anything. Still doesn't seem balanced to me.

 

[SteveLaw]

Unfortunately I'm not locked into a choice so i never have to live with the consequences of my decision. I'll choose 20 $ when I need money, and 5$ when I want to talk to people.

I feel bad for the people who always want to talk to others, now they have to lock themselves away to make money. And the people who hate talking to others just get free money, they get what they want and don't sacrifice anything. Still doesn't seem balanced to me.

"Free money"? Really. If you make such obviously ridiculous statements we'll never have a reasonable discussion.

In Open you have more interruptions to earning money because of other players. That is the only difference. The thing you choose interferes with the thing you desire. You don't get "free money" in Solo (although oddly you do get "free money" from Wings, and extra bonuses just for playing Open is frequently asked for).

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

"Free money"? Really. If you make such obviously ridiculous statements we'll never have a reasonable discussion.

In Open you have more interruptions to earning money because of other players. That is the only difference. The thing you choose interferes with the thing you desire. You don't get "free money" in Solo (although oddly you do get "free money" from Wings, and extra bonuses just for playing Open is frequently asked for).

If you read the rest of that sentence you would know I meant "free" as in, they don't have to sacrifice anything.

 

[FuzzySpider]

If you read the rest of that sentence you would know I meant "free" as in, they don't have to sacrifice anything.

They still have to work in the game for the money Mr Cobalt. Come on now. I know you believe Solo and Open are unbalanced and earnestly so, but be intellectually honest in your arguments.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

They still have to work in the game for the money Mr Cobalt. Come on now. I know you believe Solo and Open are unbalanced and earnestly so, but be intellectually honest in your arguments.

Again, read the context. I wasn't saying anything about the skill or ease of either mode.

 

[SteveLaw]

If you read the rest of that sentence you would know I meant "free" as in, they don't have to sacrifice anything.

Clearly I didn't know. You already said "without having to sacrifice anything". If that was what you meant by "free money" then it was tautological at best, misleading at worse. I didn't understand that that was what you meant.

But who says a Solo player doesn't sacrifice anything? They sometimes sacrifice (potential) depth and diversity of encounters.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Unfortunately I'm not locked into a choice so i never have to live with the consequences of my decision. I'll choose 20 $ when I need money, and 5$ when I want to talk to people.

I feel bad for the people who always want to talk to others, now they have to lock themselves away to make money. And the people who hate talking to others just get free money, they get what they want and don't sacrifice anything. Still doesn't seem balanced to me.

Eh? when you want to talk to others you go open and talking to others. But of course you don't get money for talking so when you are talking you don't make money. Do you want a "1000 Credits per Word spoken/written Bonus"?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Clearly I didn't know. You already said "without having to sacrifice anything". If that was what you meant by "free money" then it was tautological at best, misleading at worse. I didn't understand that that was what you meant.

I thought it was pretty obvious, I didn't mention anything about skill disparity, or the npvs being easier. If I did mean it that way it would have come out of left field. Also, "free", not having to give up anything for, seems like a perfect fit in the context.

But who says a Solo player doesn't sacrifice anything? They sacrifice (potential) depth and diversity of encounters.

Except they do willingly because, they don't want want to be anyone else's content, or they don't like multiplayer games, or whatever the reason. Players should be able to play in their preferred mode and not have to sacrifice anything. Npcs are lacking and I wholeheartedly support making them better For that reason, as well as others.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable, I just want open to have as much of an impact on CGs. I don't want it to be just the same few people fighting while the game gets decided in solo. I also want solo players to have npcs who use the game's tools and mechanics as well as any player.

 

[SteveLaw]

Except they do willingly because, they don't want want to be anyone else's content, or they don't like multiplayer games, or whatever the reason.

Open players willingly choose to compete against other players. The same "few people fighting" are those players who prefer PvP over all other choices. They are rewarded with the PvP that they prefer.