Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Robert Maynard]

Ehhhhhhh, noooot exactly. If you and I have the same Community Goal we're doing, and I'm being interdicted by players in Open and you aren't being interdicted by the NPCs as frequently in Solo.

Which mode do you think I am going to gravitate to?

That's why NPCs being a little bit more immersive and interactive a little bit more in Solo is a better solution. Especially when you're working against their cause ala the War for Lugh. Back in 1.2, the tools weren't readily available and interdictions weren't as frequent as they are now (And its still not enough in my opinion). It's to be expected players are going to interdict one another, but at least now, we have the tools to see who is a friend and foe in Power Play.

It's your choice as to which mode you gravitate to, of course - a choice between (potentially conflicting) interaction with other players or not.

I'm all for the improvements to NPCs (Thanks, SJA!! ) - and I would expect that they will further improve in time - but not to the extent that they become an insurmountable challenge for the average player - the game still needs to be able to be played in Solo mode, after all.

Players will always interdict other players - some don't need any reason to do so.

 

[Hempstead]

So I am right, this entire "debate" is about the desires of some, to shoot those who are not interested in PvP.
Because those who are interested, are all ready in Open - so you're asking for now, is to force the rest of us over by messing with modes or rewards.



Some people want PvP to test their skills versus like minded players, they play Open all ready.

The rest only want to mindlessly pew pew weaker targets and will not engage in a "real" fight.
Well, I'm not sorry to say - I'm not joining in being the seal for you to club. You can seal-club without me. If you want to buy me a copy of the game, pay me an hourly rate (starting offers from £10 per hour upwards) I will consider being a seal for you to club - until then, I paid for what FD advertised, 3 modes I can freely use and the choice of who I play with.

£10 an hour? No way!

Hey, not a bad idea!!! Hire the gold farmers to be the baby seals!!! And they don't even need to speak English, just grunt. Baby Seal Express Service, anybody?

Nah, that won't work... The seals have to hold a grudge and it must be free of charge.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

It's your choice as to which mode you gravitate to, of course - a choice between (potentially conflicting) interaction with other players or not.

I'm all for the improvements to NPCs (Thanks, SJA!! ) - and I would expect that they will further improve in time - but not to the extent that they become an insurmountable challenge for the average player - the game still needs to be able to be played in Solo mode, after all.

Players will always interdict other players - some don't need any reason to do so.

Of course, but you know and I know, that I'll always be the first one to say "Hey, make this a little bit more fair and fun for everyone".

Certain areas of the game or activities should be dangerous or rather, thrilling to to do! And like I've said, with SJA's ability to make great NPCs that don't just flat out overwhelm the player, we'll have a better game overall.

Yeah, Players will interdict other players and NPCs, but NPCs in both solo and private should be a bit toned up. Especially for those working for Powers.

Edit: Don't you have to be a certain rank to join a power regardless?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

So I am right, this entire "debate" is about the desires of some, to shoot those who are not interested in PvP.
Because those who are interested, are all ready in Open - so you're asking for now, is to force the rest of us over by messing with modes or rewards.

Yes you got us, the big mean old open players want to take away your favorite toy or force you to be killed 24/7. It has nothing to do with making open as viable as solo grinding for pp or CGs.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why not?
p2p is well know for being bad for multiplayer compared to the usual server=client system where clients dont connect to eachother.
And this is specially bad for MMOs because the connection cant handle the amount of clients connecting.
Competetive PvP needs a stable, low ping server. Player with high ping or unstable connections will suffer, but anyone else would be fine. Now a instance host can ruin your expirience.

if a primarily competitive PvP game is what you want to scratch your itch, there are other games better than it than ED. imo the main reason ED is P2P is because it was never intended to be a primarily PvP game... I believe that when DB envisioned its MP, it was more of a co-op PvE game with the odd bits of PvP in there.

Now feel free to disagree with me, I am not an authority, but its just how I see it myself. P2P is perfectly fine for a social MP game. Relying on "trust" not to abuse mechanics etc only really falls on its ass when you start considering it a competitive game.

Star Conflict MAY be worth a look if you have never checked it out (superb rift support too!). Interestingly perhaps (or not!) that game is also getting a load of PvE content, but right now at least that is a far better PvP game, with a better infrastructure for PvP play.

I will be stunned if FD drop the P2P structure however. IF as you say open is not very popular, it does not really make sense to force players from the preferred modes into it... imo players are just as likely to say stuff it and go and play X rebirth if they do that (incidently for PvE players I hear that game is getting much better now - though I have not got it yet).

 

[Robert Maynard]

Edit: Don't you have to be a certain rank to join a power regardless?

I *think* the requirement is to be higher than the starting position, i.e. we can't join a Power as a harmless / penniless / aimless Commander.

Yes you got us, the big mean old open players want to take away your favorite toy or force you to be killed 24/7. It has nothing to do with making open as viable as solo grinding for pp or CGs.

The debate has only relatively recently started to feature CGs and Powerplay - before that it really did seem (at times) as if some players simply wanted to herd every other player into Open for their personal amusement.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

edit:
Really, you guys do understand that it's very hard for me to show sympathy for your case when your mindset is: if you don't like it after it has changed, sucks to be you!

It strongly tempts me to have the same approach to your complaints about the current game. Don't like it? Sucks to be you!

Hey now, certain players are throwing out really constructive criticism about the game and how to potentially make it just better. Regardless of the three modes.
Flat out saying "Deal with it" is not the way to go about this. There are some ideas we will all always argue and debate, but it doesn't mean we should ignore the other side. Always look at both sides of the coin, before you flip it away.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Hey now, certain players are throwing out really constructive criticism about the game and how to potentially make it just better. Regardless of the three modes.
Flat out saying "Deal with it" is not the way to go about this. There are some ideas we will all always argue and debate, but it doesn't mean we should ignore the other side. Always look at both sides of the coin, before you flip it away.

There's constructive criticism that is within the reasonable realms of possibility to make changes to the game and then there's constructive criticism that would require redesigning aspects of the game from the ground up with the sunk development / testing costs and on-going server running costs that that would entail....

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hey now, certain players are throwing out really constructive criticism about the game and how to potentially make it just better. Regardless of the three modes.
Flat out saying "Deal with it" is not the way to go about this. There are some ideas we will all always argue and debate, but it doesn't mean we should ignore the other side. Always look at both sides of the coin, before you flip it away.

I am all for making the game better....... but NOT at the expense of removing core features of the game which were the main reason many backed in the 1st place.

I put locking down the 3 modes as game breaking as locking out HOTAS players or rift users because its unfair for those without it (both those suggestions have been made on these forums!).

personally the only reason I say it is unlikey P2P will be dropped in favour of dedicated servers is because of the expense involved, and I worry what other features would have to be cut to make it happen.

that being said, if FD managed to find a way to do it, without dropping other features or adding forced subs... then so be it. I just personally do not think it is a realistic expectation.

 

[Jockey79]

... But the real ehhh bit was the "PVP will be rare", why should it be rare when we now have mechanics that are practically calling for Player interaction, be it working or undermining one another? ....

I'm taking part in the PP update - not once have I been told to "interact" with another player.
I've not been asked to go club baby seals, not once have I been asked to be a baby seal and be wary of being clubbed.
At no point have I even been encouraged to talk to another player.

I can do all of the above. If I choose to. But in no way have FD tried to even hint that I should.
they left it up to me to choose.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

I'm taking part in the PP update - not once have I been told to "interact" with another player.

Out of all the game mechanics in the game that NEEDS player interaction it is this one. And not in terms of Player Versus Player, but rather, means of communication with Players.

As it stands, I am pretty shocked that Power Play doesn't allow us to talk to our own faction members or appoint certain players to help lead the way. (Like seriously who cares about the modes for this one, communication is like the biggest key) The fact we can't communicate with those players in-game is mind boggling, sure we can do it outside of the game, but its not as fast and reliable as it would be in the game.

And because of that, we're left to looking externally, when we should be looking internally to help our cause. Which isn't fun and I believe excludes the modes even more.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Out of all the game mechanics in the game that NEEDS player interaction it is this one. And not in terms of Player Versus Player, but rather, means of communication with Players.

As it stands, I am pretty shocked that Power Play doesn't allow us to talk to our own faction members or appoint certain players to help lead the way. (Like seriously who cares about the modes for this one, communication is like the biggest key) The fact we can't communicate with those players in-game is mind boggling, sure we can do it outside of the game, but its not as fast and reliable as it would be in the game.

Given DBOBE's apparent misgivings regarding Guilds, I am not surprised in the slightest that players cannot be appointed to anything within a Power - each player has to earn / maintain their position on their own.

In-game Power communications would be good though.

 

[fademist]

Out of all the game mechanics in the game that NEEDS player interaction it is this one. And not in terms of Player Versus Player, but rather, means of communication with Players.

As it stands, I am pretty shocked that Power Play doesn't allow us to talk to our own faction members or appoint certain players to help lead the way. (Like seriously who cares about the modes for this one, communication is like the biggest key) The fact we can't communicate with those players in-game is mind boggling, sure we can do it outside of the game, but its not as fast and reliable as it would be in the game.

NEEDS one ONLY IF THE PLAYER CHOOSE TO DO IT is that hard to understand for some ppl?....
us for the chat thingy we already have a discusion on support forum about it ...i smell at some point will have that

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Given DBOBE's apparent misgivings regarding Guilds, I am not surprised in the slightest that players cannot be appointed to anything within a Power - each player has to earn / maintain their position on their own.

In-game Power communications would be good though.

Yeah, but I suppose the better word for this is like a Council of Common Sense. V)
Or just voices of reason. THAT is what we need, but that will come directly from In-game Power Comms and from existing group influences. (Which is weird because Power Play is like a guild, but without the tools, SUUUUPPER weird)

I rather see us united, regardless of mode, than divided, separated and harming ourselves. I want to be able to talk to those in Private and Solo so we are all working with one another. I want their voices and concerns heard as well. It also looks like this is what the community noticed and wants as well!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah, but I suppose the better word for this is like a Council of Common Sense. V)
Or just voices of reason. THAT is what we need, but that will come directly from In-game Power Comms and from existing group influences. (Which is weird because that's literally like a guild, but without the tools, SUUUUPPER weird)

I rather see us united, regardless of mode, than divided, separated and harming ourselves.

Any player can join any Power. Those players who do join a Power can work their way up the internal rankings. All Power affiliates will have a vote on "what to do next" (probably with some weighting in favour of those who hold higher rank). It's a system designed to allow anyone to affect the direction of the Power. So, not a Guild in those respects - no membership control or appointed hierarchy.

Given the diametrically opposed views on some topics, we are unlikely to all unite - even in the eventual attack of the Thargoids (whenever they appear).

 

[WlLL0W]

perhaps they looked at the trailers and saw ships fighting each other?....

perhaps the played the originals... but saw ED listed as an mmo?

i like solo just as much as i like PVP

and if you like solo or private groups then you're sorted

but if you like PVP there's not much going on.

all it would take is a proper PVP orientated update.

i dont mind paying for it.
that way those that dont want it can carry on as they are
and those that do.... will be catered for.

the very fact that there have been two threads on this demonstrates
that there is a real issue surrounding all this.

and it really needs to be resolved.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Any player can join any Power. Those players who do join a Power can work their way up the internal rankings. All Power affiliates will have a vote on "what to do next" (probably with some weighting in favour of those who hold higher rank). It's a system designed to allow anyone to affect the direction of the Power. So, not a Guild in those respects - no membership control or appointed hierarchy.

Given the diametrically opposed views on some topics, we are unlikely to all unite - even in the eventual attack of the Thargoids (whenever they appear).

Well, I don't think they're focusing on the classical definition of a Video game guild per say, more like an association of people for mutual aid or for a common goal. (The definition of a guild, which pretty much sums up what you and I said. But its missing some tools to communicate and well, voice our concerns to one another.)

And you lost me on this one here, do you mean like how every single Power is going to unite or as in how the power itself (Alone) is going to fight? Because what I meant by "I rather see us united, regardless of mode, than divided, separated and harming ourselves" I meant in respects to the unique and individual Power. Like I said, Communication is key for this whole play for power. Don't want us to implode you know!

 

[Zphinx]

Solo players cannot see the problem because for them, there is no problem? It's so hard to comprehend that solo players see no problem because THERE IS NO PROBLEM? Much the same way that there is no spoon.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/8b433244b74360e59970c1c0fc2c3955/tumblr_n44j93bwGM1qz6z2wo1_500.gif




That last little blurb? That's the real issue, methinks. False perception.

Open players blockading trade goals get irate when traders give them the finger and move to solo, where they can proceed unimpeded with their game play, leaving the almighty PvP crowd high and dry. Game mechanic, and damn good one, to boot. Nothing at all wrong with it. Matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say...that's the very reason that its there. So PvP types cannot ruin someone else's game play. Furthermore, the PvP types driving everyone out of open(yeah, like that's actually happening. People are just avoiding the "popular" systems now.) have only themselves to blame for this response. CG's aren't the problem....the PLAYERS are the problem....and that's something that no amount of game tweaking will fix.

+1 Rep m8, you wrote what I was thinking. MMOs are fun (were fun) until they introduced the open to all PVP maps as soon as you leave the starter towns, and you were insta killed outside by a lvl 80 and you being a level 9.

That is also exactly why I hate MMOs and Specially EVE where the PVP folks ruined that game in just a few month technically (Band of Brothers [BOB] comes to my mind).

A purist in PVP only wants PVP, if you look at which ships they fly, cheap ships spect to max {DPS} to make it inexpensive if they lose, whereas the RP or casual player spends weeks / month go get himself up to a Python and wants to play the game, not to PVP every minute of the time he/she is logged onto the game.

Thanks for your post as it sums it up pretty straight forward.

 

[fademist]

for the ones that want power-chat between all modes lets put a hand for this matter here:https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=152712

 

[WlLL0W]

Yes you got us, the big mean old open players want to take away your favorite toy or force you to be killed 24/7. It has nothing to do with making open as viable as solo grinding for pp or CGs.

thats the thing...

solo players dont see a problem, as they already have what they want.
and nor do they want any change which will affect their enjoyment.

i do see that side of things, but i also see the other side as well.

i bet if the situation was reversed they would be the ones moaning.

but at least i would consider the situation from their perspective...

why cant they do the same?