Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Alpha Leonis]

Brilliant +1 Rep... you nailed it, that is what PVP folks are in MMOs.... brilliant.

I believe this game is balanced just fine. FD have said repeatedly they are working on the combat logging issue, how bout a little patients.

But I think the game is balanced beautifully, for all types of players. Why don't you just go in your chosen mode, then simply ignore the other two modes? It really is this simple, your trying to make big issues for ulterior motives. I feel like you're trying your best to just make FD feel like the game is simply broken, even though more and more people are purchasing it every single day. This is a fact! Even with the horrible imbalances in the modes??? I suppose they're just not reading the details eh? Do you think there may be a few people buying it with the intention of getting to play a really cool space game, isolated from players like yourself You know that's exactly why I purchased it. Or do you just think that every single player that happens to think differently than you are just simply stupid, and have no idea what were talking about? I opt for "Stupid". I guess because I don't hyper analyze this game. moan and complain, and just keep going on & on about every little detail, that I'm simply stupid.

You know I really like this game, and I do know the difference in what I like and what I dislike. I don't need you to explain this to me, or continue to lecture me on how I need to understand this and that. I know what I like, I like this game. I know it's balance beautifully, and I know your types of players have a really hard time with this. I think they should give you the CG's, and a 150% pay increase across the board for open. Basically to shut you up, but ya know that's really not gonna do it is it? Because once you get what you want, and most players still don't want to go there, you'll be right back here groping for new straws.

Let me share one of my theorys. I fully believe this game is going to attract a whole lot of PVE oriented players because of these modes, and mode switching. Why? Because they can play with family and friends, and virtually guarantee some one like you won't come swooping in and bury your foot in there ars, when there just trying to figure out how to mine. Say a guy, his wife and maybe his 10 year old daughter, no interest in PVP, or even player interaction other than just there family unit. Why do you think ED's doing so well? Because of players like yourself? I hate to break it too you, but there doing well largely because of the PVE players, not the PVP players that want the same old decade old crap, "Drama in Space". They support modes that attract PVE players in mass, and there doing so.

I personally despise people that think they have to hyper analyze every single thing, including games, that every intention was made to strive for excellence in there produce. You notice I said excellent, not perfection, as this game is like all the others in the sense that. "IT WILL NEVER BE PERFECT FOR YOU OR ANY BODY ELSE"!

So you just go right ahead and proceed with your kind of Meta Game here. Then FD will figure out the same lesson CCP learned with your type of emergent game play or emergent game development. LOL

+1 Rep. I'm really glad FD have a solo mode in ED, it's the only mode I play in.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Not possible, its exploitable.. You go online, pick the mission, log off and go SOLO, finish the mission, fly back to the star port while in SOLO, log off again, and log back in this time ONLINE. Cash in the mission with BONUS, but you did the mission in offline when it comes down to it.

So your idea is great if it were not for the Human player and Human mentality to cheat when he / she thinks not being caught. Its just Human Nature, and so is fight when you know you have a big chance to win, and run or walk away if you see you will be bullied. Again Human nature.

They locked down the Nvidia Titan contest to open only easily enough. FD can implement whatever they feel will make a better game.

I agree about human nature. I guess it's the main reason this thread exists. We have a Pirate mechanic with nothing as good as a player to pirate. We have a way to trade without worrying about additional player pirates or grinders. There is no incentive that would make anyone willingly expose themselves to be robbed. I play both modes. Trading and exploring in solo and always taking a combat ready ship into open. I think that's probably what most Switchies do. (did I coin a new player type)

 

[fademist]

They locked down the Nvidia Titan contest to open only easily enough. FD can implement whatever they feel will make a better game.

I agree about human nature. I guess it's the main reason this thread exists. We have a Pirate mechanic with nothing as good as a player to pirate. We have a way to trade without worrying about additional player pirates or grinders. There is no incentive that would make anyone willingly expose themselves to be robbed. I play both modes. Trading and exploring in solo and always taking a combat ready ship into open. I think that's probably what most Switchies do. (did I coin a new player type)

its good to have a CHOOSE to be at any mode u feel right when u want isnt it?

 

[DaggerSnake]

its good to have a CHOOSE to be at any mode u feel right when u want isnt it?

Yea, but I'm still in the camp that we should have seperate saves but keep the same overall single simulation. What looked good on paper doesn't really sit well for me in practice. I shouldn't be able to trade up to a great combat ship and then go hunting players. Nor should I be able to rack up a big bounty get chased down and laugh as I filter the hunters out in solo. I think that I'm taking the path of least resistance along with everyone else using the modes to mitigate risk. The game is still fun either way, but those little things should be addressed for fair play.

 

[CmdrNestor]

Everything wrong with Elite: Dangerous [IMHO]

I would like to begin by saying, that I have really enjoyed playing Elite since the launch of Beta; and that I'm not hateing on the game outright, unlike some ofthe people which are often found around here.


Nonetheless there are some serious issues, Frontier Developments has to address; if they don't wish to see Elite slowly dying. Here are my points in order of importance.



Combat Logging:


CL is a serious issue for those who enjoy Elite through it's PVP interactions (Pirating,BountyHunting,Fighting for certain systems). CL just takes the fun out ofthese actions. I always ask myself, why FD hasn't done anything about it up to this point? I'm aware of the fact, that it isn't easy to track CL, but I don't see any serious progress over the last months to address this issue. Why doesn't FD implement a time ban(30-60min?) for those who "lose" their connection>>>ONLY<<< when they are being interdicted by other players? This would be actually a first step into the right direction to fight CL. Right now, CL is just too convenient, because everyone can just relog within 2 minutes with impunity.


Next point.


Solo(Group) vs Open Play:


This is actually equally important. I can understand, when some players say "I don't want to interact with other players. I like to admire the Galaxy and it is enough for me to fight against NPCs, when I want some action."Totally understandable!
What I don't get is, when someone can trade their way up to a big ship in Solo(Group) Play and then say; "Now I want to be a pirate/bounty hunter and I have enough ressources to maintain my hobby, thanks to the time I traded in Solo". This is exactly the point, in which the circle of trading and the possibility of being pirated is broken. They had all the benefits of Solo and no "downsides" (others would say excitement), which open play brings and are now ripping off the braver open traders.
As a pirate, more often then not you are grateful for those traders, who still trade in open and haven't retreated cowardly into Solo Play.
Why isn't it a mandatory to have two different Accounts? One for Solo(Group) and one for Open Play...
If everyone could put their"care-bear" mentality aside and embrace the inevitability of the Dog-eat-Dog world, which we could all envisage in space, you would I hope also agree with this point.

At least make open a little bit more interesting for traders by giving them a bonus of 30% when they trade in Open Play...This isn't too much to be asked for!
Next point



Powerplay:


I really had high hopes for PP, but they were quickly destroyed after I understood the mechanics behind PP. It is nothing more than doing boring missions like "bring this stuff from point A to point B" or "destroy these ships, because our faction doesn't like them" only with pretty pictures and a feigned communal spirit to maintain your factions"boundries". The focus is again on PvE situations, in which you can interact with soulless NPCs.


Just a few simple questions:


1. Why isn't there a piracy component? All the stuff you can carry for your faction is worthless from a profitteering point of view.
2. How come, that you can kinda "own" a system with your wing but the votes for preparation outnumber you by far, even if you don't see anybody doing missions for the opponent faction?
3. Is there a real value by attacking other players who are pledged to another faction than yourself? Does it affect Preperation/Control mechanics?
4. Is it a necessity to spread the playerbase over so many systems and factions and therefore making concentrated fights over certain systems that hard?
5. Why isn't there a PvP focus in PP at all? Something like combat zones in important systems,only accessible by Commanders, with an actual tracking feature that shows which faction is on the winning side when all is said and done.


I don't want to rage too much here, but you guys have to think about ways, in which PvP could actually be made more attractive. Stop trying to force life into PvE by making it so boring, annoying and repetitive (e.g. NPC Chat while supercruising, pointless interdictions while supercruising) and having no longtime motivation at all.


Thanks for reading.

 

[Lestenio]

Yea, but I'm still in the camp that we should have seperate saves but keep the same overall single simulation. What looked good on paper doesn't really sit well for me in practice. I shouldn't be able to trade up to a great combat ship and then go hunting players. Nor should I be able to rack up a big bounty get chased down and laugh as I filter the hunters out in solo. I think that I'm taking the path of least resistance along with everyone else using the modes to mitigate risk. The game is still fun either way, but those little things should be addressed for fair play.

As much as I love the game, personally I'd probably walk away if any save separation was introduced. I like switching to suit my mood, and that mood is never hunting other players. I would have no interest at all in grinding out 2 separate commanders.
As a result, FD would lose a customer and open players lose another player. I dare say I wouldn't be alone. The only winner would be the next game I go out and spend £40 on.

 

[fademist]

Combat Logging:


CL is a serious issue forthose who enjoy Elite through it's PVP interactions (Pirating,BountyHunting,Fighting for certain systems). CL just takes the fun out ofthese actions. I always ask myself, why FD hasn't done anything aboutit up to this point? I'm aware of the fact, that it isn't easy totrack CL, but I don't see any serious progress over the last monthsto address this issue. Why doesn't FD implement a time ban(30-60min?) for those who "lose" their connection>>>ONLY<<< when they are being interdicted by otherplayers? This would be actually a first step into the right directionto fight CL. Right now, CL is just too convenient, because everyonecan just relog within 2 minutes with impunity.


Next point.


Solo(Group) vs Open Play:


This is actually equallyimportant. I can understand, when some players say "I don't wantto interact with other players. I like to admire the Galaxy and it isenough for me to fight against NPCs, when I want some action."Totally understandable!
What I don't get is, whensomeone can trade their way up to a big ship in Solo(Group) Play andthen say; "Now I want to be a pirate/bounty hunter and I haveenough ressources to maintain my hobby, thanks to the time I tradedin Solo". This is exactly the point, in which the circle oftrading and the possibility of being pirated is broken. They had allthe benefits of Solo and no "downsides" (others would sayexcitement), which open play brings and are now ripping off thebraver open traders.
As a pirate, more often thennot you are grateful for those traders, who still trade in open andhaven't retreated cowardly into Solo Play.
Why isn't it a mandatory tohave two different Accounts? One for Solo(Group) and one for OpenPlay...
If everyone could put their"care-bear" mentality aside and embrace the inevitabilityof the Dog-eat-Dog world, which we could all envisage in space, youwould I hope also agree with this point.


At least make open a littlebit more interesting for traders by giving them a bonus of 30% whenthey trade in Open Play...This isn't too much to be asked for!

For CL yes they need to fix it at sometime...

your 2nd point have discussed already ....why should anyone have more profits than solo? cause is on open? if yes already has the luxury to interact with other people....beside the bonus of wings

 

[Valethar]

I imagine this is going to see a merge soon.

And LOL at 'braver' players, simply because we play in Open. It doesn't make us any braver than anyone else, and heaping disparagement on Solo players simply because that's the closest thing they have to the offline mode they were promised is just pure horse manure.

 

[Cmdr Moritz]

Since you left out the implementation of the global(not just at stations) 20 canister limit I have to ask;

What do you guys think the general opinion on the limit is?

A: So obvious a bug that it does not even qualify to be discussed on the forum
B: General acceptance of the limit for making the spaceways in open more forgiving for traders?

 

[DaggerSnake]

As much as I love the game, personally I'd probably walk away if any save separation was introduced. I like switching to suit my mood, and that mood is never hunting other players. I would have no interest at all in grinding out 2 separate commanders.
As a result, FD would lose a customer and open players lose another player. I dare say I wouldn't be alone. The only winner would be the next game I go out and spend £40 on.

Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic. And yes, I do feel that racking up a bounty and hiding in solo is exploiting a built in mechanic. I just don't know what the best fix for those little things are. I like switching too, but I wouldn't be as extreme as to stop playing if I had seperate saves. The game is still fun.

 

[CmdrNestor]

No it's not acceptable at all. I hope that it is a minor thing, which will be fixed soon.

 

[Zelos1983]

Sorry but:

CL is a serious issue forthose who enjoy Elite through it's PVP interactions (Pirating,BountyHunting,Fighting for certain systems).

Combat Logging is an essential mechanism to mitigate the missing savegame feature. In emergencies (usually bugs), one can kill the process and respawn in a safe spot, thereby saving up to weeks (!) of gameplay.
It is unfortunate, that the feature is misused in PvP, but then again it only affects the PvPers and they just have to live with that.

Although:

Why doesn't FD implement a time ban(30-60min?) for those who "lose" their connection>>>ONLY<<< when they are being interdicted by otherplayers?

That seems resonable.

BTW, people shoudn't be punished for playing in solo. Sure, we could take away the ability to switch to open, but then even less people would participate in open.
E is essentially a single player game, and combat isn't even one of the most important aspects to it. It's nice that is has multi-player capabilities, but they are certainly not in the focus.

 

[Silent_Star]

Today i got interdicted by a cmdr in a python, i was in a python too.
He had a combat one, and mine was stripped down for trading.
He killed me fast while i was trying to get away, and i lost about 7 mil of credits.
What should i do if i'm not allowed to play in solo?
I would burn through my credits pretty fast.

 

[Lestenio]

Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic. And yes, I do feel that racking up a bounty and hiding in solo is exploiting a built in mechanic. I just don't know what the best fix for those little things are. I like switching too, but I wouldn't be as extreme as to stop playing if I had seperate saves. The game is still fun.

Probably a better way like you say. Only FD have the metrics so they are best placed to decide what they want to do. It's unlikely to be transparent but will be in the games best inerest for sure.

Stopping playing might seem extreme but in my eyes I'd only have half a game. It would be the worst of both worlds.
In the meantime, like you, I'm having fun

 

[JosiahD]

I would like to begin bysaying, that I have really enjoyed playing Elite since the launch ofBeta; and that I'm not hateing on the game outright, unlike some ofthe people which are often found around here.


Nonetheless there are someserious issues, Frontier Developments has to address; if they don'twish to see Elite slowly dying. Here are my points in order ofimportance.




Combat Logging:


CL is a serious issue forthose who enjoy Elite through it's PVP interactions (Pirating,BountyHunting,Fighting for certain systems). CL just takes the fun out ofthese actions. I always ask myself, why FD hasn't done anything aboutit up to this point? I'm aware of the fact, that it isn't easy totrack CL, but I don't see any serious progress over the last monthsto address this issue. Why doesn't FD implement a time ban(30-60min?) for those who "lose" their connection>>>ONLY<<< when they are being interdicted by otherplayers? This would be actually a first step into the right directionto fight CL. Right now, CL is just too convenient, because everyonecan just relog within 2 minutes with impunity.


Next point.


Solo(Group) vs Open Play:


This is actually equallyimportant. I can understand, when some players say "I don't wantto interact with other players. I like to admire the Galaxy and it isenough for me to fight against NPCs, when I want some action."Totally understandable!
What I don't get is, whensomeone can trade their way up to a big ship in Solo(Group) Play andthen say; "Now I want to be a pirate/bounty hunter and I haveenough ressources to maintain my hobby, thanks to the time I tradedin Solo". This is exactly the point, in which the circle oftrading and the possibility of being pirated is broken. They had allthe benefits of Solo and no "downsides" (others would sayexcitement), which open play brings and are now ripping off thebraver open traders.
As a pirate, more often thennot you are grateful for those traders, who still trade in open andhaven't retreated cowardly into Solo Play.
Why isn't it a mandatory tohave two different Accounts? One for Solo(Group) and one for OpenPlay...
If everyone could put their"care-bear" mentality aside and embrace the inevitabilityof the Dog-eat-Dog world, which we could all envisage in space, youwould I hope also agree with this point.


At least make open a littlebit more interesting for traders by giving them a bonus of 30% whenthey trade in Open Play...This isn't too much to be asked for!
Next point


Powerplay:


I really had high hopes forPP, but they were quickly destroyed after I understood the mechanicsbehind PP. It is nothing more than doing boring missions like "bringthis stuff from point A to point B" or "destroy theseships, because our faction doesn't like them" only with prettypictures and a feigned communal spirit to maintain your factions"boundries". The focus is again on PvE situations, in whichyou can interact with soulless NPCs.


Just a few simple questions:


1. Why isn't there a piracycomponent? All the stuff you can carry for your faction is worthlessfrom a profitteering point of view.
2. How come, that you cankinda "own" a system with your wing but the votes forpreparation outnumber you by far, even if you don't see anybody doingmissions for the opponent faction?
3. Is there a real value byattacking other players who are pledged to another faction thanyourself? Does it affect Preperation/Control mechanics?
4. Is it a necessity tospread the playerbase over so many systems and factions and thereforemaking concentrated fights over certain systems that hard?
5. Why isn't there a PvPfocus in PP at all? Something like combat zones in important systems,only accessible by Commanders, with an actual tracking feature thatshows which faction is on the winning side when all is said and done.


I don't want to rage toomuch here, but you guys have to think about ways, in which PvP couldactually be made more attractive. Stop trying to force life into PvEby making it so boring, annoying and repetitive (e.g. NPC Chat whilesupercruising, pointless interdictions while supercruising) andhaving no longtime motivation at all.


Thanks for reading.

While I agree with your concerns over combat logging, one needs to be certain that genuine disconnects (which do happen) aren't punished at the same time. Not sure I've seen a sufficiently effective solution yet.

Completely and utterly disagree with your stance on solo vs open.

On the powerplay bit and PvP vs PvE - you do realise that Elite: Dangerous was always intended to be primarily coop PvE, with PvP possible but intended to be rare by comparison? Sure, some PvP content to powerplay might be beneficial (to some.....) but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that PvE is the focus, imho.

 

[ACenterForAnts]

I thought you said this thread was 'Everything wrong with Elite: Dangerous'.

There are far greater issues with the game than some people playing Solo.

 

[fademist]

Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic. And yes, I do feel that racking up a bounty and hiding in solo is exploiting a built in mechanic.

the problem with combat log u cant be pretty sure that wasnt cause net loss or power loss ....

 

[Razeth]

I'll just say I 100% agree with all points. Especially with those regarding open/solo play and the Player vs Player component of the game, or lack thereof. This game is going to fail in the long term if they don't add something to promote actual player interaction instead of these boring systems to "affect the universe."

 

[LKx]

The CL is just an exemple of why you can't push for open play too much: the multiplayer infrastructure is not up to the task.
ED can't became a mmo, and you can't get rid of solo play.
Learn to live with that

 

[wizzpig]

I imagine this is going to see a merge soon.

And LOL at 'braver' players, simply because we play in Open. It doesn't make us any braver than anyone else, and heaping disparagement on Solo players simply because that's the closest thing they have to the offline mode they were promised is just pure horse manure.

^^This.

<snip>....Why isn't it a mandatory tohave two different Accounts? One for Solo(Group) and one for OpenPlay... <snip>

Because that is not how the game was designed.
Also, check your keyboard, I think your space bar might be broken