Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[[VR] Mad Mike]

My point in compairing it to the world's most famous MMO is that in WoW, if you want to be a PVPer, you cannot go in a PVE world and just attack whoever you want.
In this game basically you can: you can modify and affect the simulated world even without ever seeing another human player at all.

If you guys don't understand examples, it's your problem.

But thank you for explaining MMOs to me. /sarcasm off

The only problem is someone bought the game and wants to change it to suit their play style regardless of it ruining the game for so many.

I GET that in primarily competative games balance and fairness is key, the issue is, many of us did not back a primarily PvP competative game, we bought a game which has multiplayer options to enrich the game when we want... which was what was advertised.

you keep banging this drum of how us solo/group players are not explaining how it affects us, and yet when we do, you do not even acknowledge it.

what is your suggestion for a solution for the players who bought on the basis of mode switching when they had flaky internet, and mode switching to allow friends to prefer open to play with friends who prefer solo from time to time.


if you can address a way of getting around that (without starting from scratch with a new CMDR) then maybe there can be some progress.....

 

[fademist]

My point in compairing it to the world's most famous MMO is that in WoW, if you want to be a PVPer, you cannot go in a PVE world and just attack whoever you want.

and still the better arena teams is from pve worlds strange isnt it?

 

[Jockey79]

My point in compairing it to the world's most famous MMO is that in WoW, if you want to be a PVPer, you cannot go in a PVE world and just attack whoever you want.
In this game basically you can: you can modify and affect the simulated world even without ever seeing another human player at all.

If you guys don't understand examples, it's your problem.

But thank you for explaining MMOs to me. /sarcasm off

See, do try and keep your points in order - first you keep on that "it is an MMO" so you should get your own way, I just explained why that angle is pointless.
As for using a game with multiple worlds, that is also daft as Elite does not have PvP worlds and PvE worlds. It has 1 world, whereby we can choose who to play with.

I don't choose to play with you. I wouldn't in WOW either. And Star Citizen has privately run servers - I'd not share the details of my friends server to you.
In short, I have high standards of who I game with - I play games where I control who I play with (the main selling point of ED) to maintain those standards.

 

[Mork_417]

I'm have been playing solo, but I've only been playing for about a month or so. I have just scraped enough together to get an ASP, and now I'm saving up for upgrades. I want to play in open, and I'm sure I will once I have a coin purse that will cover a couple of losses. I would have loved to started out in open, but my first impression of the game was kinda negative due to the things I've seen/read about random fun killings & pirating. I love the fact that you can pirate, be pirated, and I'm ok with the gamer who even wants to RP being a random murderer. However, I really do wish there was a stiffer penalty for murdering. I don't feel the game is evenly balanced in that respect.

Anywho, that's why I prefer solo now, but looking forward to moving to open. So, I kinda hope things stay as they are regarding play mode choices.

 

[PeachingTony]

Solo and open are 2 different game worlds. You'll never meet an open player in solo.
They are connected by the BGS which takes input from both worlds, but they aren't the same world.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

they are as much the same as if you had 2 players playing in open but in different instances.

As I understand it Elite is essentially a game where you are in your instance and this instance is a bubble which surrounds you as you fly in the background simulation.

there are numerous rules which decide on whether another player can join your bubble when your bubbles overlap each other, one of them is are they in the same mode as you, and if its private, are they a member too.... but the other one which is just as likely to create a barrier to whether you see them or not, is, is their ping compared to you suitable?.

if not then you will not (or should not) allow the players into the same instance bubble.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Solo and open are 2 different game worlds. You'll never meet an open player in solo.
They are connected by the BGS which takes input from both worlds, but they aren't the same world.

Solo is Open with a null modifier attached to the match-making server

 

[Jockey79]

Solo and open are 2 different game worlds. You'll never meet an open player in solo.
They are connected by the BGS which takes input from both worlds, but they aren't the same world.

No, they are not "different worlds" - and this is where people are not understanding how the game works.

There is one (1) "world" (background simulation).

The modes are just a switch stating who I can see / who can see me.

Kind of like fence panels around a garden. In fact, great example - when I moved house, my new house only has 3 foot high fence panels, so my neighbours could see/ talk to me everytime I went outside.
We changed the panels for 6 foot high panels ~ this did not magically transport my garden to a new world or alternate dimension. It is still on the same Earth, in the same town, on the same street, I just chose not to interact with my neighbours when I am in my garden.

 

[ianw]

they are as much the same as if you had 2 players playing in open but in different instances.

As I understand it Elite is essentially a game where you are in your instance and this instance is a bubble which surrounds you as you fly in the background simulation.

there are numerous rules which decide on whether another player can join your bubble when your bubbles overlap each other, one of them is are they in the same mode as you, and if its private, are they a member too.... but the other one which is just as likely to create a barrier to whether you see them or not, is, is their ping compared to you suitable?.

if not then you will not (or should not) allow the players into the same instance bubble.

I think that's exactly it.

The more people there are in the same location at the same time in open - i.e. Powerplay and CG hotspots the more likely it is that any particular individual will not see most of the other players there at that time.

Solo and private groups are just other instances besides all those in open.

So if you have 500 players in an area the most you will see is 32 - and in reality it's probably closer to 20 something - maximum. The rest might as well not be there as far as you're concerned regardless of the mode they're in.

 

[WlLL0W]

All players of the game are equal with the freedom of choice to play in each game mode on a session by session basis

well actually they are not equal.

in solo players can earn more money, rank up quicker, make greater contributions towards community goals and influence power play more,

purely because they meet no resistance from anyone else.

please dont take it from that, that i am judging solo players because i'm not.
though the fact still remains they do have an advantage.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Technical issues aside, imagine this scenario.

Does this sound fair...

Yes. You choose to test yourself against human interaction, presumably as you find that either more challenging, enriching, or you believe you can best the opposition. Your choice is your reward. Well done you for choosing the envelope that makes you happiest

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Your example is silly and doesn't apply.
Imagine you put the fence 6 foot tall, but your neighbour can still see you inside. This is because you play solo in an open world. I would still be able to see the changes you do to the inside of your house (galactic power)

You can still see his cabbages, you just can't throw slugs at them to stop them growing.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

You will see that after a while other commanders will chose to switch to solo then. Is this the desired effect of the patch?
I'm just saying it's not fair and this cannot be argued with. I will start playing solo/grouped then, seems that's what the player base want.

- - - Updated - - -"I'm just saying it's not fair and this cannot be argued with..."

I can. He just won't see me and have the chance to fight back.

Yes it is and yes it can. Your opinion is yours, that does not make it the truth, no more than mine does for me.

No, you can grow bigger cabbages than his, but you can't stop him enjoying his cabbages, even if he doesn't want to take them to the village show to share them with others. He isn't interested in how big your cabbages are, he probably hopes you have fun growing them, if he even thinks of other cabbage growers.

 

[SteveLaw]

He just won't see me and have the chance to fight back.

Nor you, him. So all's equal.

 

[ianw]

You will see that after a while other commanders will chose to switch to solo then. Is this the desired effect of the patch?
I'm just saying it's not fair and this cannot be argued with. I will start playing solo/grouped then, seems that's what the player base want.

- - - Updated - - -



I can. He just won't see me and have the chance to fight back.

Not everyone plays the way you do - I play in open all the time - even when I did CGs - I play in open because I want to and that makes sense to me.

I can't control what everyone else does so I don't waste time worrying about it.

If you choose to that's up to you - just don't assume everyone has the same attitude.

 

[Meritz]

In your opinion.... Frontier pitched the game with its three game modes, single shared galactic background simulation

Only problem is... Powerplay is not a simulation.

It is completely player driven. So, given that players now determine absolutely everything that happens in Powerplay, is it fair that some players can simply opt out of having to deal with their opposition? Because sure as hell the only defense that can be mounted, the only offense too, is up to the players, not the simulation.

So how do you mount a defense against an invisible, untouchable army?

One that can still hurt and destroy your chosen faction.

 

[Hurricane Moon]

Only problem is... Powerplay is not a simulation.

It is completely player driven. So, given that players now determine absolutely everything that happens in Powerplay, is it fair that some players can simply opt out of having to deal with their opposition? Because sure as hell the only defense that can be mounted, the only offense too, is up to the players, not the simulation.

So how do you mount a defense against an invisible, untouchable army?

One that can still hurt and destroy your chosen faction.

I play solo mainly.....like my own bubble you see.......but I can certainly see the other side of the coin for the regulars of open.
I do have a group that im a member of called hidden aggression.....I like safety in numbers.

but yes us solo players are a invisible enemy,as are the open players to us.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Only problem is... Powerplay is not a simulation.

It is completely player driven. So, given that players now determine absolutely everything that happens in Powerplay, is it fair that some players can simply opt out of having to deal with their opposition? Because sure as hell the only defense that can be mounted, the only offense too, is up to the players, not the simulation.

So how do you mount a defense against an invisible, untouchable army?

One that can still hurt and destroy your chosen faction.

The shared GBS includes the effects of player action in all modes and on all platforms, in this example, player effects on Powers.

Supporters of a particular Power would presumably have to undertake more of what they had been doing to undo the effects of other players - just like they will have to do with the effects of all of the players on other platforms that they will never meet in-game. Just like they will have to do when players in different timezones or players have ping-times that mean that they will never be instanced with the defenders.

The XBox One and PS4 are two platforms that we know will share the same GBS - while crossplay with these players would be desirable, it may not be possible for one reason or another. The fact remains, there will be even more players affecting the same GBS.

 

[Cody]

DDSS - mornin', y'all!

 

[Daffan]

Only problem is... Powerplay is not a simulation.

It is completely player driven. So, given that players now determine absolutely everything that happens in Powerplay, is it fair that some players can simply opt out of having to deal with their opposition? Because sure as hell the only defense that can be mounted, the only offense too, is up to the players, not the simulation.

So how do you mount a defense against an invisible, untouchable army?

One that can still hurt and destroy your chosen faction.

The best way to win power play is to grind until your eyes explode in solo

So? Your point is?
I'll tell you again: we compete in a race, with same prizes and where we are judged on final standing position, but you chose to run in a tank, I have a bicycle over a minefield.
How is that even fair to you? How come that you never see anyone in your race, other than mindless robots (npcs) with predictable behaviours, maybe you come on top and still you pretend that the race was fair? And you want the same prize as me?

This is again my point, is this clear? It's fairness my only concern, not what you or I want to play. I will always play open because I like risks.

I used the same style analogy. But the people who replied to me told me that my reward for playing Open was

get this

"other player interaction"

Yes you heard it here folks, because i choose open and get penalised 3x slower rates (cant do shield less trade, cant reset instances etc) i finally get to play a multiplayer game with other people.