Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[tagos]

Actually - 'emergent' gameplay comes from the game mechanics, of which humans are only a part. You can flail around with your own definitions all you want but what counts is Frontier's. They disagree with your particular take on things and the chances of them changing anything are pretty much zilch.

I like things as they are where I can play as the mood takes me and I don't care if solo people, group people or open people are affecting whatever mode I'm in. Doesn't spoil my fun one little bit.

 

[Jockey79]

However, I cannot refrain from calling combat-logger's, cheaters, for that us what they are. I said, if they aren't cheating the game, they are certainly cheating themselves! And that view, shared by many, is not made invalid, simply because one guy, in Lave, is a griefing .

Absolutely !!

I've never used combat log off and I do agree, if someone goes in to open mode, by default they agree to be shot at and killed by another player (or players).
It was suggested to have a log out timer, as someone who docks first or when exploring I drop to somewhere safe, a timer would not impact my game play at all (not sure on anyone else) so that I can agree with.

But as for anything to remove or limit people within the 3 mode design, I wonder why people bought the game when this information was public for so long and I'd never agree to any change to the mode mechanic.

 

[Bigcheese]

The design idea appears to be that people side with one of the factions or play them all against each other - it's about the individual making their way in the galaxy.

Players are vastly outnumbered by NPCs anyway and FD are "guiding" for want of a better word the background sim. So if you want to support the empire in open you are up against NPCs - and some players - but not that often because the game is huge. If you're in solo you can still do your bit for the empire but against NPCs.

The people seem to be getting upset seem to be the ones that only want to play against other players and they want their own groups/clans. This type of gameplay is already happening but it's sort of by appointment again because the game is so huge. But the background sim exists without that anyway - it's optional but not necessary - except for those want just that exclusively.

I play in open and intend to sample all of it..

The background sim can never be anything more than a farce with the current setup, I agree.

Actually - 'emergent' gameplay comes from the game mechanics, of which humans are only a part. You can flail around with your own definitions all you want but what counts is Frontier's. They disagree with your particular take on things and the chances of them changing anything are pretty much zilch.

You are right, game mechanics are a part and FD has intentionally stifled the opportunity in Elite. That was my point...the mechanics suck.

I'm just saying it's a shame they compromised their own game because they designed in constant, irrational fear.

 

[tagos]

So you guys really don't see the double standard here? Honestly? Did you really just equate instances with allowing private play and open mixed together?

You must be really biased to not see it. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Come on now...

We don't care. That's not hypocricy or any other weighted term you want to fling. It's playing the game with the features we knew we were getting and paying for.

Just like, by the way, you did.

 

[aeshec]

So you guys really don't see the double standard here? Honestly?

You must be really biased to not see it. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Come on now...

There is no double standard since you can do the exact same things to influence solo play as a solo player can do to you. It's literally the same set of actions.

And this is the second time you've mentioned cake. Maybe you would be happier if you took care of your current hunger issue.

 

[Driver]

It undermines competitive and emergent play. It destroys risk vs. reward. It destroys immersion if you aren't being selective. What do we gain? The ability to effect open mode while playing alone. That's it. What a terrible trade off. There's a reason very few developers would ever do this. It's really stupid from a design standpoint.

It is absolutely ghost mode btw. You're a ghost, unable to interact or be interacted with. Come to terms with what it is at the very least.

Real choice would be having open, solo and private groups with solo and private sharing a save. When you combine them, you remove a lot of potential from open. I suspect you know this but are biased. The developers must be very jaded against multiplayer to compromise the game like this. I mean honestly, you can poof into your own plane of existence at will. It's just so lame.

Hey Big cheese

Could you please show me where, in the DDA, this game is supposed to be competitive and where your emergent play is detailed?

I think that you are trying to make this game fit your preconceived notions.

Also, I don't care if you, or anyone else, thinks the design is lame.

Why should I consider your opinion to be correct where it differs from that of the Frontier developers? What makes you right? If you answer, please be specific.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

So you guys really don't see the double standard here? Honestly? Did you really just equate instances with allowing private play and open mixed together?

You must be really biased to not see it. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Come on now...

Every Player in every mode has the same amount of possible influence. How is that a double standard?

 

[Darian]

Open means for me getting blown up by idiots who attach dumbfire missels to there ships and run sneak attacks.

Now it maybe in some way realistic that something like that exists ( I mean look at the average RIA card carrying American) but it does not add really to the game play

I mean, we all fly around in eagles with dumbfires attached and sneak up at each other and who first shoots wins.

That may have been amusing when i was six years old but not really now anymore.

So yes, open is for me ELITE Arena.

Group and solo is for me ELITE Dangerous, where not everyone is in it for the LULZ but tries to have fun in other ways than chain spamming dumbfire rockets.

 

[Bigcheese]

There is no double standard since you can do the exact same things to influence solo play as a solo player can do to you. It's literally the same set of actions.

And this is the second time you've mentioned cake. Maybe you would be happier if you took care of your current hunger issue.

Right and that set of actions is: Space trucking.

There's nothing you can do to combat that. Combat can be avoided at will, but space trucking is unstoppable.

It's ridiculous really.

 

[Jockey79]

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Come on now...

That is kind of how the game was designed....

Player choice.

I choose to enjoy what there is, not dwell over what there isn't.

 

[ianw]

The background sim can never be anything more than a farce with the current setup, I agree.



You are right though, game mechanics are a part and FD has intentionally stifled the opportunity in Elite.

I'm just saying it's a shame they compromised their own game because they designed in constant, irrational fear.

Or the other way of looking at it is they designed in a way for different playstyles to play the same background sim - and I didn't say it was a farce so I'm not sure what you're agreeing with.

You do realise if they did lock everyone into a choice between open and solo many of those on the fence would go solo and open would be even more empty? Or if they made it open only then those that stayed would just go off to remote bits of the galaxy.

I see a lot of traders in open - many more of those than I see ships equipped with interdiction kit.

 

[Jockey79]

Right and that set of actions is: Space trucking.

There's nothing you can do to combat that. Combat can be avoided at will, but space trucking is unstoppable.

It's ridiculous really.

Missions have an effect on the sim, so does the conflict zones - end of the day, the outcome is what FD say it is - you cannot prove it either way

 

[tagos]

Open means for me getting blown up by idiots who attach dumbfire missels to there ships and run sneak attacks.

Now it maybe in some way realistic that something like that exists ( I mean look at the average RIA card carrying American) but it does not add really to the game play

I mean, we all fly around in eagles with dumbfires attached and sneak up at each other and who first shoots wins.

That may have been amusing when i was six years old but not really now anymore.

So yes, open is for me ELITE Arena.

Group and solo is for me ELITE Dangerous, where not everyone is in it for the LULZ but tries to have fun in other ways than chain spamming dumbfire rockets.

Yea - but what you don't understand is that in that long and oft posted quote with the repeats of 'play YOUR way', Frontier have tragically and repeatedly mis-spelled 'MY'. It's an easy mistake to repeatedly make.

Thankfully there are a few posters prepared to point that out to them.

 

[Bigcheese]

That is kind of how the game was designed....

Player choice.

I choose to enjoy what there is, not dwell over what there isn't.

You have the choice with separate saves. You could play in any manner you see fit. Combining them compromises open play completely.

Open loses choice because ghost mode space trucking is unstoppable rendering any sim aspects trivial, and people trade in safety in solo until they are geared and only then do they go to open, which makes it a very different place.

A lot is lost when you do this, that's why nobody does it. It's a double standard and very poor design.

I suspect the devs are jaded due to experiences in other games, because there is no good reason to do this. I hope they do change it, but the general design seems extremely risk adverse so I'm not hopeful.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So much for "play how you want" I guess. Nice double standard. Not that emergent even means competitive. Have you ever played persistent online games? Honestly...

It's not about me - it's about the game design. We all play the way that we want to within the limits of the game. The absence of leaderboards and other well worn features of so-called competitive games would tend to suggest that Frontier do not consider this game to be competitive (depending on exact definition, of course).

Do you know what emergent means? Yes, it means players are locked into the same world so unexpected situations emerge. That's the entire point. It's about dealing with things instead of flipping the switch to pop into your own phase of existence.

Different instances are also not optimal, but necessary. Allowing people to impact the universe from their own little reality is not necessary. It's just a really bad decision by the developers.

Remember, having the choice isn't enough for you, you feel you must be able to effect other player's games from your own private game. That's incredibly selfish if you think about it.

I also think you're being intentionally obtuse when it comes to not acknowledging what is lost with the current design. They sacrificed a lot to let people effect the universe from a private game. They completely compromised open play.

If that is what emergent play means then, by definition, E: D does not support that kind of play. As to flipping a switch - what is the difference, able to be discerned by the player in open, between a player logging out for the night and a player logging out to immediately log back in in solo or private group mode?

You've expressed your negative opinion regarding everyone sharing and affecting the same galactic background simulation - I understand that you hold that position - repeating it does not change my position on the matter.

It's not about what I "feel" - its about the game - the game that Frontier have created to their design - the game that incorporates features that you seem to find intolerable. Seeking to change the game to suit the play-style and expectations of a subset of players is selfish though.

Regarding what is perceived to be lost - whether it is a loss (or not) is a matter of opinion.

 

[aeshec]

Right and that set of actions is: Space trucking.

There's nothing you can do to combat that. Combat can be avoided at will, but space trucking is unstoppable.

It's ridiculous really.

Actually you don't have to do trucking, you can do whatever you want. If you want to make the most money currently, then yes you must do space trucking. But you can certainly make it competitive space trucking if that makes it more interesting for you. Competitive play can be more methodical and thought-out than just shooting at other players. Also eat some cake.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Right and that set of actions is: Space trucking.

There's nothing you can do to combat that. Combat can be avoided at will, but space trucking is unstoppable.

It's ridiculous really.

I am a Solo Player and I never managed to totaly avoid combat.

PvP or PvE can be avoided, because some people dont wanna do it. I dont really understand why you want to do PvP with People who dont want it, isnt it more fun fighting people who also want to fight?

 

[tagos]

You have the choice with separate saves. You could play in any manner you see fit. Combining them compromises open play completely.

Open loses choice because ghost mode space trucking is unstoppable and people trade in safety in solo. A lot is lost when you do this, that's why nobody does it. It's a double standard.

I choose to only play 1 save, what with having a job and a life. This is the game i was sold, this is the game I bought and this is the game I play.

I like it, Frontier like it, others like it and it's built into the basic structure of the game. It's not going to change and if you don't like it then you have some decisions to make.

 

[Bigcheese]

Actually you don't have to do trucking, you can do whatever you want. If you want to make the most money currently, then yes you must do space trucking. But you can certainly make it competitive space trucking if that makes it more interesting for you. Competitive play can be more methodical and thought-out than just shooting at other players. Also eat some cake.

I was referring to the sim aspects. Changing system influence etc. Players running cargo in ghost mode can't be countered by anything other than also running cargo.

Space truckin wars! Play how you want lol...

 

[tagos]

I was referring to the sim aspects. Changing system influence etc. Players running cargo in ghost mode can't be countered by anything other than also running cargo.

Space truckin wars! Play how you want lol...

We are. As are you. The difference is we're happy to let you play as you want without harassing Frontier to put a stop to it. We don't care what you're doing and how it affects the galaxy.