Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Renegade Roach]

And your post makes you sound very pleasant indeed

I'm not trying make you like me, but I'm not spuriously blaming you for the issues this game and community suffer from either. Seriously, the 'kids today' line has been trotted out far too often on these forums. It's pretty sad.

 

[SteveLaw]

I'm not trying make you like me, but I'm not spuriously blaming you for the issues this game and community suffer from either. Seriously, the 'kids today' line has been trotted out far too often on these forums. It's pretty sad.

Kids today, they don't understand the problem with the kids today.

 

[BL1P]

I'm not trying make you like me, but I'm not spuriously blaming you for the issues this game and community suffer from either. Seriously, the 'kids today' line has been trotted out far too often on these forums. It's pretty sad.

Its probably because of all the Old Bitter Gits like me who played this on their first ZX81.
Some age gracefully... I don't ! bah hum bug ! BLAH BLAH BLAH.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Kids today, they don't understand the problem with the kids today.

I guess my memories of the original Elite on my BBC must be from a past life.

 

[fademist]

Why do you need the traders?

Why not just a mission to go to a CZ and kill X number of players from the other faction?
Why does PvP always need a trader to be shot at?

Easier to kill lol dont need to be risky with ship that can shoot back lol

 

[Zphinx]

Maybe I'm missing something, having never played solo play. I've been on the fringes of occupied space for over a week, and haven't seen a player since. Given the size of the Galaxy, why would FD even add a solo play option?

Are people just too lazy to leave the starting systems?

Solo Mode here, as I don't want to deal with other humans while I enjoy a video game dedicated to Space. I have played Elite 1, and 2.

I don't want to deal with ganking and or fighting an NPC and being jumped by a group of Players, over and over.

I want to play the game as it was advertised initially. You can play solo.... and or groups or with everybody (groups / Open).


I think that would answer your question, and I hope I did not offend anybody by answering the way I did.

 

[SteveLaw]

I guess my memories of the original Elite on my BBC must be from a past life.

Kids today, no sense of humour.

 

[CMDR Derrida]

I don't think it's a good idea to close the thread as this excludes new CMDR's and people who have just bought the game who might want to discuss it. I don't think it's a case of 'reading the back of the packet' either, as modern games evolve through agile environments to create questions and find aporias beyond the initial specifications. Tiring as the question may be for those who have 'heard it all before', we should not exclude newcomers from asking it or make them feel uneasy for having asked it.

 

[Zphinx]

I'm not trying make you like me, but I'm not spuriously blaming you for the issues this game and community suffer from either. Seriously, the 'kids today' line has been trotted out far too often on these forums. It's pretty sad.

but its the truth.... in today's world, everybody wants insta-gratification, and should you not get it, people (in general) start on a rampage... do you see the point I am trying to make here?

Fast Food, Drive through, Insta level 80 in 30 hours game play, no child left behind in our school system, In our school system when a hard working kid gets the A-Student of the month, the lazy kids parents hire a lawyer and sue the school as there is no F-Student aware of the month. Really ?!?

So having that said, please should be able to play their way, and it should not punish them or give them any advantages. It should be "You play your way, I play my way, and Peter plays his way" ..."We are three people, playing the same game in a different mode" However, we all have the same fun.

I can however understand why open world players cry for Solo players to be forced online... they know they fly better, fight better, and it will be an easy picking when they come out of solo... that is why, and other minor exploits of cause, but this is not the threat to mention them.

Also for CG, if you give an advantage to an Online player lets say 25% turn in... it would be very easy to go SOLO start to fly into a WZ hunt down a few enemies (200K) and fly to the station. Before you turn your War bonds in you exit the game, and log back in, this time as ONLINE, turn in your War Bonds and you are 25% better but still do the Same thing.. see where I am going with this?

There is no secure system to give you a better point of playing your way or my way... or force people who purchased the game to be played "Their way", and once they purchased the game now you force them to play it your way.

Elite Dangerous, has been advertised to be capable of playing Solo, in Groups, or MMORPG mode (Online), that was a mayor sales point, and ask around or have them pull the numbers on the database to show you how many of the thousands of players are actually playing Online vs Solo... you will be shocked to see that most likely 60% of the player base play offline.

I hope I did not offend anybody with my personal point of view and comments. Thanks for reading

 

[Jockey79]

Put words in your mouth, really?

What did you say....

Because pure pvp is boring, combat zones are boring. Pvp Piracy on the other hand, is fun.

And you say backed it up with;

Don't put words in my mouth. I said combat zones are boring. Pure combat vs combat pvp is boring. I like pirate vs trader pvp, and even bounty hunter vs pirate pvp. I just find combat zone fragfests tedious.

Apart from contradicting yourself (marked blue in your quote), as bounty hunter vs pirate quite literally is combat vs combat pvp - something you stated twice it is boring to you (marked red in your quotes).
The only gameplay you listed as "fun" to you (marked green in your quotes) is you with a combat ship, them without a combat ship - aka piracy.

You also missed some key things, not just in our exchange, but in the thread in general;

1) I said your gameplay choices are perfectly valid - so no need to be so defensive, and taking your own quotes out of context that's a new tactic on me
2) Missions specifically to kill human traders, will result in very few human traders in Open, so how EXACTLY will you complete it?????
3) Missions to target any specific demographic of the game, will result in people believing FD don't value them as players due to encouraging folks to pick on them or harass them. Where my suggestion of, send people to a combat zone for a mission lets the individual player decide if they want to be shot at or not for their faction.
4) Yes, more mission types are good and welcome, as long as they do not hinder any demographic (see 3)

Remember, "Play Your Way" applies to them as well as you - if their way involves not getting shot at by you, tell me how a mission to kill them is of any use to you whatsoever ??

 

[Renegade Roach]

but its the truth.... in today's world, everybody wants insta-gratification, and should you not get it, people (in general) start on a rampage... do you see the point I am trying to make here?

Fast Food, Drive through, Insta level 80 in 30 hours game play, no child left behind in our school system, In our school system when a hard working kid gets the A-Student of the month, the lazy kids parents hire a lawyer and sue the school as there is no F-Student aware of the month. Really ?!?

So having that said, please should be able to play their way, and it should not punish them or give them any advantages. It should be "You play your way, I play my way, and Peter plays his way" ..."We are three people, playing the same game in a different mode" However, we all have the same fun.

I can however understand why open world players cry for Solo players to be forced online... they know they fly better, fight better, and it will be an easy picking when they come out of solo... that is why, and other minor exploits of cause, but this is not the threat to mention them.

Also for CG, if you give an advantage to an Online player lets say 25% turn in... it would be very easy to go SOLO start to fly into a WZ hunt down a few enemies (200K) and fly to the station. Before you turn your War bonds in you exit the game, and log back in, this time as ONLINE, turn in your War Bonds and you are 25% better but still do the Same thing.. see where I am going with this?

There is no secure system to give you a better point of playing your way or my way... or force people who purchased the game to be played "Their way", and once they purchased the game now you force them to play it your way.

Elite Dangerous, has been advertised to be capable of playing Solo, in Groups, or MMORPG mode (Online), that was a mayor sales point, and ask around or have them pull the numbers on the database to show you how many of the thousands of players are actually playing Online vs Solo... you will be shocked to see that most likely 60% of the player base play offline.

I hope I did not offend anybody with my personal point of view and comments. Thanks for reading

I don't disagree and I'm not one of the people calling for restrictions on play modes or greater benefits for open play. None of what you wrote has anything to do with somebody claiming that 'kids today' are '[redacted, please don't] griefers' though, does it? People were griefing in online games from the start. Griefing also has little to do with instant gratification, you only need look at the lengths some of these guys go to to upset other players to realise this. My point is that those who try to pin 'the blame' on young folks disrupting 'their game' do their argument no favours at all.

 

[Zphinx]

546 pages? Guys, all that had to be said was the following:

Open Play = EvE Online, but with oddball restrictions on cursing. Basically, if you have an RP reason attached to your griefing, you're free and clear to do whatever the hell you want.

Private Group = Country club. You can do whatever the hell you want in this mode too, but it's usually boring to everyone other than the participants.

Solo = No point. There's better single-player 4x games out there. I mean, this game doesn't even come close to the complexity and depth of X3: Terran Conflict in solo mode.

With these breakdowns in mind, it becomes clear that this game is a FUBU concept - For Us, By Us, and in order to be "us" you needed to be one of the Kickstarter backers. If the company gives even a fraction of a damn about anyone else, it does an excellent job of concealing it.

You know, kind of like it does with its attitude toward Open Play. (I mean, at least EvE Online is up-front about its "griefers allowed" policy and demarcates between legitimate and illegitimate applications of griefing. Wonder how many people would have dropped $60 on this knowing they'd be griefed in Open Play?)

So, there's your bottom line. Open is for griefers (I'm sorry - "roleplayers"). Private is for small groups who want to ignore the rest of the world and do their own thing. Solo is for people who don't own a proper single-player space game.

Can't believe it took 546 pages to get to this. -Sid

You sure are an online only player... not a Beta Backer, but just shy of it. Eve veteran player, so now that I got your profile straight; lets talk about your points... you have none except trying to bait, which is a direct infraction mentioned by the OP.

See this is what I dislike about MMOs and or Open server games, please don't get me wrong but its these kind of things that I don't want to deal with when I play a game.

 

[Dave1235]

If Solo and Group used the same Galaxy Save and Open used another then this isnt as big a problem as you make out, yet it keeps the core values you mention.

What is a problem is that, when PowerPlay comes out players in solo can damage the power of a Faction/Power/Group with complete safety from players belonging to the Faction/Power/Group they attack.
If a group wanted to annex off a system station because they wanted to drop its influence.
Because of Solo and group effecting Open they cannot.
Another small example:-
I could go to a Groups station in a system they are guarding in Open and attempting to increase that Stations Influence and accept and Fail all missions by the station owners they are trying to increase. All done in the safety of Solo or Group where they cannot stop me.

I feel this is a large error in the design of the multiplay.

What you feel is a "large error" many others see as a core feature, something promised from the start.

 

[Zphinx]

I don't disagree and I'm not one of the people calling for restrictions on play modes or greater benefits for open play. None of what you wrote has anything to do with somebody claiming that 'kids today' are '[redacted, please don't] griefers' though, does it? People were griefing in online games from the start. Griefing also has little to do with instant gratification, you only need look at the lengths some of these guys go to to upset other players to realise this. My point is that those who try to pin 'the blame' on young folks disrupting 'their game' do their argument no favours at all.

You are correct, a [redacted, please don't] can be a person with 26 years of age, no high school diploma, and no job, but when that person turns on his Uber computer he/she is the God of the Online community, and in most cases elected to be a Guilt Leader... go figure right. Now those are the people we are all talking about, those are the real griefers, but lets not talk about griefer this griefer that, lets talk about the fact that we are all humans... we work hard in our jobs to come home at night, eat something and maybe turn on our PC to play a round of Elite, we do wish for our hard earned my to have some fun also. I am by no ways (as someone earlier pointed out) forced to purchase a different game, after him reading through 560 pages and providing no input other then baiting.

Here we have a community which I see over and over in games that are online, it started with Ultima Online, WOW, SWG, and other games, if you look back then in the forums please were nice, posts were made and people communicated, nowadays and since I would say, the last 8 years or so everything is corrosive and hostile. Where will this lead... think about it.

 

[Zphinx]

Put words in your mouth, really?

What did you say....



And you say backed it up with;




Apart from contradicting yourself (marked blue in your quote), as bounty hunter vs pirate quite literally is combat vs combat pvp - something you stated twice it is boring to you (marked red in your quotes).
The only gameplay you listed as "fun" to you (marked green in your quotes) is you with a combat ship, them without a combat ship - aka piracy.

You also missed some key things, not just in our exchange, but in the thread in general;

1) I said your gameplay choices are perfectly valid - so no need to be so defensive, and taking your own quotes out of context that's a new tactic on me
2) Missions specifically to kill human traders, will result in very few human traders in Open, so how EXACTLY will you complete it?????
3) Missions to target any specific demographic of the game, will result in people believing FD don't value them as players due to encouraging folks to pick on them or harass them. Where my suggestion of, send people to a combat zone for a mission lets the individual player decide if they want to be shot at or not for their faction.
4) Yes, more mission types are good and welcome, as long as they do not hinder any demographic (see 3)

Remember, "Play Your Way" applies to them as well as you - if their way involves not getting shot at by you, tell me how a mission to kill them is of any use to you whatsoever ??

Nice.... reps for you, gosh I love reading educated responses with valid points. I could read your response 100 times and still would give you reps for it. I love your last point overall... very well written thanks

- - - Updated - - -

personaly speaking i have zero interest in open play...pvp has absolutely no interest for me nor do any other aspects....i have dipped in to "see whats what " as it were....and in all honesty...il stay solo....but then im an antisocial git at the best of times lol, but essentially Elite always was solo and thats why i bought the game...no solo = il say goodbye with a heavy heart

Same here...

 

[Renegade Roach]

You are correct, a [redacted, please don't] can be a person with 26 years of age, no high school diploma, and no job, but when that person turns on his Uber computer he/she is the God of the Online community, and in most cases elected to be a Guilt Leader... go figure right. Now those are the people we are all talking about, those are the real griefers, but lets not talk about griefer this griefer that, lets talk about the fact that we are all humans... we work hard in our jobs to come home at night, eat something and maybe turn on our PC to play a round of Elite, we do wish for our hard earned my to have some fun also. I am by no ways (as someone earlier pointed out) forced to purchase a different game, after him reading through 560 pages and providing no input other then baiting.

Here we have a community which I see over and over in games that are online, it started with Ultima Online, WOW, SWG, and other games, if you look back then in the forums please were nice, posts were made and people communicated, nowadays and since I would say, the last 8 years or so everything is corrosive and hostile. Where will this lead... think about it.

You're still doing the assumption thing A [pre-redacted since we can't use that therm apparently] griefer can also be a 40 something guy who has kids, a responsible job and a happy marriage. I've encountered more than a few of these in other games. Yes we are all humans and, sadly, unpleasant humans come in all shapes and sizes.

The trend for greater hostility on the internet is undeniable but is societal rather than age based. You only have to look at some of the vile trolling online which quite clearly does not come from 'kids'. Take the abuse Sue Perkins recently received on Twitter for the mere suggestion (in jest, by others) that she might present Top Gear. People wishing her burned alive and/or [redacted, again, because now we can't even mention certain terms in a serious conversation] . The demographic for that show is largely white, middle aged men with jobs and families. Nuff said.

The constant 'bloody kids' theme from some of the older members of this forum is as much a symptom of this as griefing. A lack of understanding and empathy and a readiness to assume the worst and attack people at the first opportunity.

 

[Zphinx]

I do think there should be some kind of interdiction counter measure. It's frustrating when someone develops a grudge when you don't even have a bounty or any cargo!

Interdicting will set (not sure if still) a warrant on you.... aka raise your bounty. Once you have reached 12390875903845098357 cr, a friend of your "guilt" will then go to an isolated system and kill you in a cheap starter ship and claim the bounty. Then that player does the same with you later on.... its called Bounty Exploit.

 

[Dave1235]

<snip> I just find it kinda stupid I can effect Open in the complete safety of Solo or Group.

Not sure if you are aware but there is only one background sim that everyone works within, whether in open, groups or solo, even when the Xbox players join us (apparently Microsoft won't let them play in our instances), but they will also add to the same background sim.

That should be interesting when it happens, I wonder what terms the PC open only crowd will use to label them as they won't be in the same open as them.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Put words in your mouth, really?

What did you say....



And you say backed it up with;




Apart from contradicting yourself (marked blue in your quote), as bounty hunter vs pirate quite literally is combat vs combat pvp - something you stated twice it is boring to you (marked red in your quotes).
The only gameplay you listed as "fun" to you (marked green in your quotes) is you with a combat ship, them without a combat ship - aka piracy.

I can see why you're befuddled here, because when i think piracy, i think all of the piracy gameplay. Stealing cargo, running from the cops, avoiding bounty hunters, smuggling goods into the station.

You also don't understand the phrase pure pvp either. Pure pvp is exactly what it sounds like. Player vs player, combat ship vs combat ship with the only objective being to kill the other person.

also FYI pirates don't fly combat ships, they fly multirole ships. Fighter are the ships combat player fly.

You also missed some key things, not just in our exchange, but in the thread in general;

2) Missions specifically to kill human traders, will result in very few human traders in Open, so how EXACTLY will you complete it?????
3) Missions to target any specific demographic of the game, will result in people believing FD don't value them as players due to encouraging folks to pick on them or harass them. Where my suggestion of, send people to a combat zone for a mission lets the individual player decide if they want to be shot at or not for their faction.
4) Yes, more mission types are good and welcome, as long as they do not hinder any demographic (see 3)

2) The mission wasn't to specifically kill trader, that was one part of the whole mission. I would hope removing the requirement to purchase your own cargo would lure players away from solo. It would also remove the inflation from the community goals increasing the traders profits.
3) A. Does this mean we should remove pirates and mercenary kill missions too? they are a demographic in the game.
B.How is an optional mission, in an optional part of space removing the players choice if they want to be shot at? They could easily avoid the area and be done with it or go to solo and be done with it.

Remember, "Play Your Way" applies to them as well as you - if their way involves not getting shot at by you, tell me how a mission to kill them is of any use to you whatsoever ??

Did I miss something? nowhere did i say this was going to be forced on anyone. Don't take the mission if you don't want to get shot. if you're part of the factions involved, probably best to avoid the area in open tho. Don't want to be mistaken for someone else.

Idk, how would a mission that gets traders, pirates, and bounty hunters together in one place, effect someone who likes pirating?

 

[Arioch]

We also have the concept of a shadow ban. A shadow ban will allow an player to continue playing Elite: Dangerous but will put them on a separate server that won’t affect any of our honest players; or the galaxy simulation. A player can be shadow banned for a day, a week or permanently depending on severity of the action and if the player repeatedly performs prohibited actions.

Hmmm, any chance I could get put on this separate server? You wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of having the shadow mode online, if that'd help. Just ban me away to my own computer. Seeing as I wouldn't be affecting anyone else, would it be then possible to have a working pause button for when I just need to pop away at short notice? That'd be great