Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Deadspin]

I think it's pretty awesome to run into other players, griefers or no, as the interaction with some of them can be pretty damned hilarious.

Even if I don't want to fork over the 500k for a new Vulture after some random FDL mass-locks me and toys with me for 15 minutes, it's still fun in the end because 500k is what, two or three truck stops if you're not rocking a transpo ship? Even less time if you're hunting a RES for bounties. Hell, the average RES collection is up to about 1.3 million an hour now if you get good spawns.

To each player his own; I just don't see the point in crying or arguing about whether or not players should be forced into "potential contact" situations with other players, or have a choice really. Be happy FD gave you the choice, shut up and play the game.

 

[W0OCQCK]

I think it's pretty awesome to run into other players, griefers or no, as the interaction with some of them can be pretty damned hilarious.

Even if I don't want to fork over the 500k for a new Vulture after some random FDL mass-locks me and toys with me for 15 minutes, it's still fun in the end because 500k is what, two or three truck stops if you're not rocking a transpo ship? Even less time if you're hunting a RES for bounties. Hell, the average RES collection is up to about 1.3 million an hour now if you get good spawns.

To each player his own; I just don't see the point in crying or arguing about whether or not players should be forced into "potential contact" situations with other players, or have a choice really. Be happy FD gave you the choice, shut up and play the game.

+1 Excellent Post

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Well now we seem to disagree. I honestly respect yer opinion there laddy. Don't agree with it, but your entitled to it. When I say I haven't seen anyone really permote it, Yes we have our sig's. I have posted at times to try it to a few, but hey I don't cruse the forums posting in every thread I see. I don't do it, I haven't seen anyone else do it..

Have you not been paying attention? In any thread that mentions being attacked(by pirates, killers, bounty hunters, or even oposing factions) in open, at least 10-20% of the replys are promoting Mobius.

 

[W0OCQCK]

Have you not been paying attention? In any thread that mentions being attacked(by pirates, killers, bounty hunters, or even oposing factions) in open, at least 10-20% of the replys are promoting Mobius.

You know I actually like you. Can we just give it a rest? Yes people are invited, yes I have invited. BFD. Why don't ya start a PVP group? Do the same? Have some rep. Bottom line play the game however you want. I'm gonna go play some "Planetside". Good night

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Why don't ya start a PVP group? Do the same?

There's no point to starting a pvp group, since open already has pvp by default. If FD decided to make an open pve mode, do you think mobius would still exist? It may. but nobody would play in it since they would have their own mode already.

If there was no pvp allowed in open, I'd start my own group in a second.

 

[Fire70]

Well now we seem to disagree. I honestly respect yer opinion there laddy. Don't agree with it, but your entitled to it. When I say I haven't seen anyone really permote it, Yes we have our sig's. I have posted at times to try it to a few, but hey I don't cruse the forums posting in every thread I see. I don't do it, I haven't seen anyone else do it.

Jockey on the other hand? I have just seen him give you the facts. Facts you choose to ignore! It's your life, if you want to keep playing ostrich and simple ignoring them. Well once again it's entirely up to you I guess.

So please proceed to enlighten us all with your wisdom. I eagerly wait your response.

PS It's pretty damn successful like it or not.

Well we are all entitled to an opinion I can't make you right ..

The PVE group is promoted quite heavily just hit "new posts" you will see. Again if the Open server was as bad as many try to make out then we would all be over there but it isn't...

Jocky stating facts?? You mean the points he/we have "disapproved or refuted" many times?? You wonder why I choose to ignore his "facts".

If you want to be technical I haven't seen any of his facts backed up with some hard data, most of his facts are emotive based. Where are his reliable sources for his "facts", how can we check their reliability?

Don't confuse having an opinion as being right or fact, as they are two different things and that is your friends biggest problem.

Hopefully you are further enlightened, Laddie..

P.S. I'm not sure what you mean about being successful.. Your PVE group, my opinion/wisdom?

If it was about you PVE group then good on you but you are sadly missing the point as to why I am refuting "fact".

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There's no point to starting a pvp group, since open already has pvp by default. If FD decided to make an open pve mode, do you think mobius would still exist? It may. but nobody would play in it since they would have their own mode already.

If there was no pvp allowed in open, I'd start my own group in a second.

I have seen this mentioned a few times now, not sure what the point of it is. Open isn't as bad as some PVE group players try to make out it is...

Out of interest does anybody know if PVE groups have any trouble with PVP killing? I mean it is not like you can't kill there, it is just not allowed.. I wonder if I can get some "facts" about this..

 

[XSTiBuzz]

A question was asked just yesterday of Mobius about how many of the now over 8,000 members had been banned. Answer was I think 6. There's a fact for you (although it may have been 8

And I think Dilbert can explain why this thread is 620 pages long...

 

[Fire70]

A question was asked just yesterday of Mobius about how many of the now over 8,000 members had been banned. Answer was I think 6. There's a fact for you (although it may have been 8

And I think Dilbert can explain why this thread is 620 pages long...

Dilbert is funny!! Remember what makes forums interesting are differing of opinions..

So confirmed and banned 6 to 8 cmdr's. I would assume you would need to picture/video evidence to prove this, Cmdr A doesn't like Cmdr B. he/she could just make something up otherwise? So it would be safe to assume that there are more killings than have been proven?

So I wonder where more griefers hang out?

 

[XSTiBuzz]

Exactly that Fire70, differing opinions, and I bet everyone here sees themselves as Dilbert in this cartoon.

I'm certain Scott Adams has a camera above my desk, he's too close to the mark too often. I've got that one printed out and my name written where it said Dilbert, in big letters, and I point to it a lot

I'm not privy to why these guys were banned, "un-authorised" PvP I assume or something like that.

And in Mobius there is pretty much unregulated PvP in CZ's btw, as long as the players are on opposing sides. Not sure how many people actually know that? Although personally I would always check via comms that the other guy was OK with it first, gentlemans agreement sort of thing

 

[DarkWalker]

Additionally I estimate EVE over the last 13 years have actually driven 15 or 20 million players, who love space games away from there game.

Last time I saw something "official", EVE devs were saying about half the players that purchase the game leave before their free month is even over. UO had a similar issue before its PvE world was added, with 70% of the players leaving in less than 2 months.

Games with open, unavoidable PvP have one heck of a churn rate.

To each player his own; I just don't see the point in crying or arguing about whether or not players should be forced into "potential contact" situations with other players, or have a choice really. Be happy FD gave you the choice, shut up and play the game.

It's not quite "be happy". We explicitly paid for a game where we can just choose to not meet the unpleasant types that open PvP typically attracts. Frontier didn't do us any favors, they advertised a product with a specific set of features, and we purchased (or backed) that product based on those features.

If ED didn't allow us to simply weed out unwanted players out of our experience? My guess is that most of the players currently in solo or PvE groups would simply never have purchased the game. For my part, if the game doesn't guarantee that I will be able to completely opt out of PvP, without any disadvantage for doing that, then I won't even look twice at the game, even if the chance of PvP actually happening is very small.

Have you not been paying attention? In any thread that mentions being attacked(by pirates, killers, bounty hunters, or even oposing factions) in open, at least 10-20% of the replys are promoting Mobius.

If the thread is about how being attacked harmed the game for the OP, then sure, simply because in that case going to Mobius is a way to solve the OP's issue. It's a way to have nearly all the advantages of solo (apart from the low bandwidth) combined with what, for less PvP-oriented players, is the majority of the advantages of open, a way to drastically increase the enjoyment of the game for like-minded players, and thus we want to spread the word so more players that would otherwise be turned away by the PvP can enjoy the game.

The thing you need to take into account is that, in any game, a fairly large number of the players that enjoy multiplayer want just the cooperative experience, avoiding the competitive element of PvP altogether. I get it that for some PvP players this is inconceivable, but players that abhor being forced into PvP not only exist, they tend to be common.

Back to the topic of advertising the group, to be honest, in threads like that the people that keep claiming that open is the only way to play the game and belittling whoever complains about being attacked are likely far more effective at pushing those players into Mobius than anyone advertising the group. Few things are more effective at driving away some kinds of players than the open hostility towards anyone that doesn't want player conflict some people here in the forums display.

Dilbert is funny!! Remember what makes forums interesting are differing of opinions..

So confirmed and banned 6 to 8 cmdr's. I would assume you would need to picture/video evidence to prove this, Cmdr A doesn't like Cmdr B. he/she could just make something up otherwise? So it would be safe to assume that there are more killings than have been proven?

So I wonder where more griefers hang out?

I don't think trying to stir up trouble in Mobius is worth the while of the typical ganker. It's a one-time event before he is banned, and likely to end with a whimper rather than a bang. And with a fairly large chance the opposite player will simply log out, as combat logging to avoid unscrupulous players that are violating the rules of the group naturally isn't frowned upon, so the chances are good the would-be ganker will be kicked out without being able to kill even a single commander.

 

[SteveLaw]

Have you not been paying attention? In any thread that mentions being attacked(by pirates, killers, bounty hunters, or even oposing factions) in open, at least 10-20% of the replys are promoting Mobius.

And at least half of those are from PvP supporters in the form "if you don't like it go to Mobius" like its some kind of insult.

 

[Clarion-Z]

This is not going anywhere.
In general this still feels like that some of PVP/open players are still complaining about that people don't want to play with them and are forming private groups. Would you really want them to be in their game anyways since they obviously don't want to play with you?
Would you want to play splitscreen multiplayer with people who don't like you? Especially being forced to play it?
You would start up your game at home, maybe open up a beer and expect to have relaxing gaming night. And soon as you'd get to it, that annoying kid from next door just comes in and starts playing with you, while ruining your fun. Then what? You'd lock the door and don't let the kid in and enjoy your game or you just wouldn't play that game. Which option you'd pick?

 

[Mentski]

If you want to encourage people to play in open, you have to alleviate their fear of playing open, not punish them for playing grouped/solo.

Making punishments fit the crime would be a start.

 

[Clarion-Z]

Mentski: Sorry for going off-topic for a bit but, I think I've seen that avatar.. Ghostbusters? The guy that comes from the painting and tries to steal a baby?

 

[SteveLaw]

Mentski: Sorry for going off-topic for a bit but, I think I've seen that avatar.. Ghostbusters? The guy that comes from the painting and tries to steal a baby?

There is no Mentski, only Zuul.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

And this is why solo and private are a "problem" for us, specially because we cant even stop people from changing the universe because its connected to all 3 modes...

Well more fool you for buying a game which made it clear this was supported. It would be like me buying iracing and moaning that there is no decent single player game behind it, and then complaining about why I should have to pay a monthly sub... and where are the external views in race. Why is it people cant take some blooming responsibility for doing even a little research on a product before they invest?. open, solo, private what ever, we are all part of the same universe, If it ever changed the whining would increase 100 fold and for good reason as it would be a total bait and switch.

I think it comes down to what game people want to play.

some want to play a "space shooter". this is fine and all but imo it is not what I want elite to be. I see it closer to a space sim. I want to play something which could potentially be something believable if space travel was ever possible.

what this comes down to then is, if in such a future there were ships which cost millions of credits (look at the price of gold per ton then compare to the price of our ships).... then would people be flying around blowing up said ships for lolz? and if they did, would insurance companies keep paying for the ships, or would they pay a very nasty group of bounty hunters to go after and exterminate these random killers.

For me, I personally think the mobius group is closer to a believable community. I find the actions going off around lave / any community goal to be immersion breaking. For me it is NOT how I believe the crime/reward system will work in the future. is this the fault of the game which will be fixed? maybe, & I hope so, but until then it is down to the players to play in the spirit of the game, and FOR ME right now the Mobius group offers the closest to how I think reality would be.

I am not wording it too well, but its pre coffee. I think Mobius is closer to a sim more than any other mode, which is why i play it. If you choose to play differently more power to you.... Sadly however I need to be able to have friends join me from open, or me join them in open. thankfully this option was promised from day 1.

 

[Jockey79]

You mean that niche group with less than 2% of the players who have bought Elite Dangerous...

See, this is why I don't get the big deal over some folks leaving Open in favour of playing in Mobius. As soon as someone states they are going to do that, all hell breaks loose.
Mobius is not compulsory, the players can play any mode they like. Just because someone joins the Mobius group does not mean they always have to play in it, and folks like myself don't - I make full use of all the groups I'm in.

It would be nice if FDev released a basic breakdown of Solo/Private/Open. Even just a % value of what modes see the most people. I think that may go a long way to resolving this fear some Open players have of everyone abandoning them.

Nah, the AI should be reworked. A dumb NPC with +5% dmg will still be stupid.
But its actually fine, because that gives any pilot a chance to actually fight in CZ and do assasination missions without problems. Want action? Try to go 1v1 against a player, that will be a whole new expirience.

I keep seeing things like "There is only so much you can do with AI" and such like comments in other games, so not really sure what can be done.
I know the aged old trick of "just make them harder" is not an ideal solution, but if their difficulty was linked to the players combat rank and scaled with it - perhaps it may add a bit of spark to the encounters.
I don't know, I'm more a Trader and Explorer (and if Mining gets better I'll do that as well) so I really cannot suggest what to do.

I do know what you mean about the NPCs though, I did have a Vulture for a while and tried a few RES out. I can only compare NPC Anacondas to my dogs, first sign of attention, they roll over and show their bellies off

Possibly.

I just like the logic.

Make claim about "bad things happen all the time in open" but I have only been in open twice. I never said they happened to me, I said from what is posted in the forums

Brags about having the most posts in this thread and is the oracle, has refuted and disproved all opposing arguments but has only been in open twice.

Say their group does nothing towards promoting themselves but has a huge promotion signature. We are not forcing it in your face with pop ups and constant spam threads over it, it is a passive sig - which you can turn off sigs in your settings

I wonder why I bother.

You know what if they had a PVE mode I wouldn't care other than good luck to them. The game will be big enough for all players to have the mode of their choice. We do have them, they are called Solo and Private Groups, and you are complaining about them and personally attacking those, defending them.

It is just the way some of them argue and dismiss any other opinion other than their own. It is almost like they have a personal stake in PVE and if it is not a popular as they hope their they will be a personal failure.. Just like you are behaving about PvP

I can see them now getting all angry at the computer because some johnny come lately has the audacity to question their high and mighty position among the community. Angry?? Nope, I'm laughing my backside off at how you refuse to read the information I gave you (twice) on the design and development of the game - you know, the information with the facts that disprove your version of what ED is and why it is this way - the information you're trying your best to ignore, that came from the Devs and from DB himself. Apparently they are wrong and don't know their own game according to your posts.

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Never let the truth get in the road of a propaganda campaign..

There's no point to starting a pvp group, since open already has pvp by default. If FD decided to make an open pve mode, do you think mobius would still exist? It may. but nobody would play in it since they would have their own mode already.

If there was no pvp allowed in open, I'd start my own group in a second.

Well, if you did a group with rules against the cheesy letterbox ram killing and other such exploits (and yes, it is an exploit - hence FD taking steps to "fix" it with speed limits in 1.3) you never know how many people you may get join.
From my personal viewpoint, a lot of the reasons I've seen for people leaving open is not non consensual PvP, it is the behaviour of morons exploiting and abusing the game mechanics for their own omgwftpwnlulz attitudes.
If you can develop a private group that actively keeps this in check (or bans it outright), you may get people signing up faster than you think.

Well we are all entitled to an opinion I can't make you right ..

The PVE group is promoted quite heavily just hit "new posts" you will see. Again if the Open server was as bad as many try to make out then we would all be over there but it isn't...

Jocky stating facts?? You mean the points he/we have "disapproved or refuted" many times?? You wonder why I choose to ignore his "facts". Facts you've chosen not to read - facts directly from the Devs, but don't let the Devs telling people what THEIR game is stop you from telling everyone you're right - at least you're consistent with your denial, I'll give you that.

If you want to be technical I haven't seen any of his facts backed up with some hard data, most of his facts are emotive based. Where are his reliable sources for his "facts", how can we check their reliability? Linked to you, twice, even other forum members have pointed that out - you seem to suddenly go blind each post I put up with all the KS, DDA, Dev info. And I've been posting it since pages 30 onwards.

Don't confuse having an opinion as being right or fact, as they are two different things and that is your friends biggest problem. Correct, DB telling people what HIS game is, is a FACT - your OPINION, is just that. I keep linking DB, so I'm posting FACTS.

Hopefully you are further enlightened, Laddie..

P.S. I'm not sure what you mean about being successful.. Your PVE group, my opinion/wisdom. Some games consider themselve "successful" with less sales than what ED has had - so that is subjective and not for players to decide. If FD say they "successful", then they are.

If it was about you PVE group then good on you but you are sadly missing the point as to why I am refuting "fact". You have not refuted anything, just personal attacks and your opinion, versus my list of KS, DDA, Dev info... so, what, you've refuted FD on what THEIR game is then??? Suppose they'd better start calling you the CEO then if you're right and FD are wrong.

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I have seen this mentioned a few times now, not sure what the point of it is. Open isn't as bad as some PVE group players try to make out it is...

Out of interest does anybody know if PVE groups have any trouble with PVP killing? I mean it is not like you can't kill there, it is just not allowed.. I wonder if I can get some "facts" about this..

The last part I'll type here.

When I last looked on the Mobius forums and Facebook page, the count was at 6 people being kicked since January, according to Mobius (as he is the only one who can do it).
Non* consensual PvP is allowed in combat zones once you've picked a side, and as far as I am aware, in other situations as long as all involved are consenting and away from any mishaps with people not involved then PvP is fine.
My reasoning (as I've not actually asked tbh) on the last part is - someone was removed for interdicting another player, without asking first. They did rejoin after an explanation of, ask before acting - and the group rules were updated to be more clear on gaining consent before interrupting others.

(* = I've put "non", but the idea is, by entering the CZ and picking a side, you are in essence giving consent to be shot at and/or destroyed by players on the other side)

And at least half of those are from PvP supporters in the form "if you don't like it go to Mobius" like its some kind of insult.

I've seen that as well. Rather confusing how some think the phrase "Well go join Mobius then" is an insult ???
But at least it is not just Mobius players that "advertise" Mobius - nice to know Open advocates do as well

 

[Fire70]

If you want to encourage people to play in open, you have to alleviate their fear of playing open, not punish them for playing grouped/solo.

Making punishments fit the crime would be a start.

Hopefully 1.3 starts to address this issue..

 

[Jockey79]

Hopefully 1.3 starts to address this issue..

The lasting effects from the crime update in 1.3 will be dealt with in 1 simple solution, clear save.

All lifetime bounty records - gone.
And half the problems people complain about, can be done in ships under 1 million in value, so it's not like clearing the save will even slow some folks down.

Now if some of the crime stuff were to impact people on an account level, so even a clear save won't remove some actions and down sides, maybe it will help.
Or, the dreaded shadow ban hammer, if that gets used a lot to start with, it might help (if not being a little heavy handed) - whoever has to decide what is honest gameplay and what is dishonest gameplay worthy of a ban, well - glad that is not my job

Like has been said, we will all have to wait and see what 1.3 brings and see how as a community we settle in to it.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The lasting effects from the crime update in 1.3 will be dealt with in 1 simple solution, clear save.

All lifetime bounty records - gone.
And half the problems people complain about, can be done in ships under 1 million in value, so it's not like clearing the save will even slow some folks down.

Now if some of the crime stuff were to impact people on an account level, so even a clear save won't remove some actions and down sides, maybe it will help.
Or, the dreaded shadow ban hammer, if that gets used a lot to start with, it might help (if not being a little heavy handed) - whoever has to decide what is honest gameplay and what is dishonest gameplay worthy of a ban, well - glad that is not my job

Like has been said, we will all have to wait and see what 1.3 brings and see how as a community we settle in to it.

What long term effects are you talking about? the 7day bounty or the legacy fine that carries over? Those effects can be easily gotten rid of without even needing to wipe your save. In fact, if someone decides to wipe their save, thats the best thing that could happen. However, I think the new system is going to be more forgiving then the current one.