Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

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Yep. This has been thrashed at for months, but the fact is that the only reason to be against the system as it stands is that you want someone else to play how you want.

I've been in open since gamma, I like seeing other CMDRS and swapping little bits of info or wondering if they are up to no good in my little neighbourhood. But I'm having a week off next week, and there is every chance that I'll wake up with a steaming hangover at least once. On that day I shall cling to my bucket of alka seltzer and trade in solo because I really, really won't be chatty. But if group choices were locked I either wouldn't play, or I'd play and crash into some poor smuggler in the letterbox because I'm smashed.* Everyone loses.

Choice is good.

* Total disclosure, this may happen when I'm sober.

Choice is not always good...

Just to be clear, I am not a pirate. I have never pirated anyone. But its definitely something I would like the thrill of I reckon, it having been done to me several times.

A scenario...

If a player say is working for a faction I am against - I decide I want to deter him from doing work in a system.

I have to track him down....

I have to make sure I've got the ship that will do the job...

I have to win an interdiction...

I have to be practised enough in combat to get the upper hand....

The other player now has the choice to dissapear.

Not warp out, not use superior tactics or skill to defeat me, not set up an ambush with friends to foil me or any other immersive, dynamic, fun, exciting alternatives...

I feel - well what was the point of doing all that? This game doesn't reward this kind of gameplay, and further more my immersion is ruined.

What is a player like that doing in multiplayer/open mode???

I could have been spending my time tracking another target, preparing for that, spending money and time preparing my ship, practising combat...and it would have been rewarded by the exciting dynamic interactions that only pvp can give.

I can see the choice that some people here are suggesting is to be able to decide when they want a bit of excitement...well, there's an entire galaxy in there!!! Even if Open mode were the only mode in Elite, you still have that choice.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Choice is not always good...

Just to be clear, I am not a pirate. I have never pirated anyone. But its definitely something I would like the thrill of I reckon, it having been done to me several times.

A scenario...

If a player say is working for a faction I am against - I decide I want to deter him from doing work in a system.

I have to track him down....

I have to make sure I've got the ship that will do the job...

I have to win an interdiction...

I have to be practised enough in combat to get the upper hand....

The other player now has the choice to dissapear.

Not warp out, not use superior tactics or skill to defeat me, not set up an ambush with friends to foil me or any other immersive, dynamic, fun, exciting alternatives...

I feel - well what was the point of doing all that? This game doesn't reward this kind of gameplay, and further more my immersion is ruined.

What is a player like that doing in multiplayer/open mode???

I could have been spending my time tracking another target, preparing for that, spending money and time preparing my ship, practising combat...and it would have been rewarded by the exciting dynamic interactions that only pvp can give.

I can see the choice that some people here are suggesting is to be able to decide when they want a bit of excitement...well, there's an entire galaxy in there!!! Even if Open mode were the only mode in Elite, you still have that choice.

It is your choice to chase down a player - knowing full well that the player in question may log out at any time of their choosing - unless you also propose that players are forced to abide by a strict play timetable to suit those who may want to interact with them. Group switching does not really come into this scenario.

The player is in open because they want to be there.

Removing other players choices to suit your own choice of play-style (that may depend on other players) would seem to be rather selfish....
 
Except all of it.

Why?

These actions in Open affect Solo and visa-versa (Unless I've got that wrong).

That's correct. The different modes are simply controlling who you're instanced with so of course the consequences of actions in any mode are universal. So what? To an individual player there is no difference between another player in a different mode and another player in the same mode but a different instance.

First group - players in Solo are affected by their actions so how long before the moans about lack of x,y,z start.

Probably not long, but those moans would be baseless since, as I said, no player can tell if they are seeing consequences from a player in a different mode or same mode, different instance.

What if there's a player using that system as a base (Solo), in come this bunch and all of a sudden their influence, market etc they've worked at is gone to pot.

They deal with it like they deal with any other intentional game mechanic, by adapting to it. Alternatively they come whine on the forums and get all bent out of shape when folks who actually know the rules of the game they are playing blow them off. Then we get megathreads like this one when the mods get tired of it.

Second - It's a blockade. - Wonder how I can get round that...

Anyhow you like, or run it in open if you want to take up their challenge. It's your choice.


Every single one of these "feature X is bad gameplay, change it!" threads is like objecting to losing a chess match "because knights shouldn't be able to jump other pieces, it's bad gameplay!"
 
It is your choice to chase down a player - knowing full well that the player in question may log out at any time of their choosing - unless you also propose that players are forced to abide by a strict play timetable to suit those who may want to interact with them. Group switching does not really come into this scenario.

The player is in open because they want to be there.

Removing other players choices to suit your own choice of play-style (that may depend on other players) would seem to be rather selfish....

Seriously though...the current system increases the possibility of encountering this situation more often...leading to disillusionment with the gameplay style.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Uhm... he will always have that choice, even without mode-switching. How do you want people stop from quitting the Game? And why in the World should be able to stop people from quitting the Game?

There are game mechanics that could be introduce that would discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo at present.
 
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There are game mechanics that can discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather there are penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo.

Ummm... you're aware that "switching to solo" requires quitting/logging off, right? You can't "switch to solo" in the middle of the fight without combat-logging or unplugging... which I agree 100% is poor sportsmanship and the action of a lame player but which is totally irrelevant to this thread.
 
Perhaps for those PvP people that feel cheated when someone force quits the game during combat. Not just logs out, but effectively pulls the plug to avoid dying. Perhaps the bounty for killing the quitter should still go to the PvPer anyway. Of course, there would be no bounty or kill registered if the winner had attacked a clean player just like now.

They could even penalize the quitter by taking the bounty out of their credit.

That is about the best compromise I can think of to counter those who cheat out of the game without quitting through the menus. Only problem is I'm not sure the server can track combat in this way since it's handled peer to peer. Which is why when you load the game after leaving, you end up near the point that you last exited supercruise.

Trying to force people to play a mode is never going to happen. People should have the choice. The game isn't even really supposed to be competitive the way that many PvP players seems to want it to be. The one time it has been made officially competitive is in the first to Elite competition. I believe in that instance it is open play only and switching between modes voids you from winning the prizes.

But other than that, you are free to play the game as you choose. I find people shirking out of combat by pulling the plug bad too.

I haven't really played open since gamma because after playing other games with chat in the past I really can't be bothered with having to deal with a variety of obnoxious behaviour freedom gives certain people who are lacking in character and or maturity. There might not be that many right now, but as the game populates, meeting them is going to become more likely.

I don't play solo either because I still like to see people going about their business.

So I play in Mobius private PvE group where I see a couple of people every now and then. For me it's nice to see the odd person going about their business and wonder what they are up to, know your not alone in the universe. So far I haven't interacted with any of them, or tried hailing them and they haven't tried to hail me either. And I'm quite happy doing my thing. I don't see the game as being competitive at all. I don't trade rares or illegal stuff, have freed slaves a couple of times for no gain, never attacked anything that didn't have a bounty and am enjoying the game immensely in my Asp.

Only time I'm likely to go open is if I meet up with my War Thunder squadron buddies. So far we have been doing our own thing and probably won't meet up till Wings is released. So looks like open probably won't happen till March.

There are game mechanics that could be introduce that would discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo at present.

There are penalties already. You have to quit the game through menus to switch to solo. And if you do, your ship is left stranded with no control, effectively a sitting duck for 17 seconds before it disappears. The problem your talking about is if someone ALT F4's or closes the task from the task manager to force quit the game, the server doesn't register the force quit, so they just disappear.
 
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There are game mechanics that can discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather there are penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo.
There it goes.

Step 1: Force people into PvP who don't want PvP.
Step 2: Implement as much ways as possible to punish them should they dare to quite because they have no fun at PvP.

I can't see how this brilliant Plan should ever end well. There really are enough People who wan't PvP and will not switiching an quitting because they wan't PvP. You should Focus on finding these People.
 
Question Solo vs Open Play

Hi I just recently picked up this game a couple days ago and I've always been a bit weary of open pvp due to the nature for people to just gank newbies to the game and I was wondering is there serious benefits/ bonuses to playing open play vs solo play? Just trying to figure out if I should stick to solo play or test out open play.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Lol - yes this!!

I didn't think that I needed to put sarcasm tags around that bit.... ;)

Seriously though...the current system increases the possibility of encountering this situation more often...leading to disillusionment with the gameplay style.

.... the chasing player cannot be sure what the target has done, other than disappear.

There are game mechanics that could be introduce that would discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo at present.

Mode switching currently cannot be done in-game - the player requires to log-out and log back in again in the mode of their choice. Why do you contend that there should be some sort of discouragement / penalty for group switching (apart from the fact that it does not meet with your expectations of how other players should play the game)?
 
Only benefit is you can make new friends.
Other then that there is not a real benefit.

You may want to get in a pve groep or just go open play as far i have noticed you will meet lots of interesting and nice people.
 
Choice is not always good...

Just to be clear, I am not a pirate. I have never pirated anyone. But its definitely something I would like the thrill of I reckon, it having been done to me several times.

A scenario...

If a player say is working for a faction I am against - I decide I want to deter him from doing work in a system.

I have to track him down....

I have to make sure I've got the ship that will do the job...

I have to win an interdiction...

I have to be practised enough in combat to get the upper hand....

The other player now has the choice to dissapear.

Not warp out, not use superior tactics or skill to defeat me, not set up an ambush with friends to foil me or any other immersive, dynamic, fun, exciting alternatives...

I feel - well what was the point of doing all that? This game doesn't reward this kind of gameplay, and further more my immersion is ruined.

What is a player like that doing in multiplayer/open mode???

I could have been spending my time tracking another target, preparing for that, spending money and time preparing my ship, practising combat...and it would have been rewarded by the exciting dynamic interactions that only pvp can give.

I can see the choice that some people here are suggesting is to be able to decide when they want a bit of excitement...well, there's an entire galaxy in there!!! Even if Open mode were the only mode in Elite, you still have that choice.

Sincerely, if I were to tell you what I think of those that hunt other players, knowing they don't enjoy this kind of gameplay, I would likely get a warning here. Thus, I see the scenario you described as a very strong reason to allow switching modes. The game should allow any player unwilling to take part in that kind of PvP hunt to effortlessly avoid others like the hunter you described.

My point of view is that you either play only with willing players or don't play at all. If you want victims, players to be hunted, then find ways to make the game as the prey enjoyable and fun enough for those players to show up on their own accord, make them want to play that part. Try to get those players to show by restricting their options, or by punishing them if they don't show up and stay "hidden" in solo, and you will get unending resistence from them.

Going back to your example, the "victim" should be there because he enjoys that gameplay, because he gets a thrill, or a laughter, or whatever. If you are going after players that don't enjoy it, you are doing it wrong, driving players away and doing far more harm to the longevity of the game than any of the apocalyptic scenarios those that want to restrict switching ever hawked; and, if the game didn't allow those players that dislike this scenario to opt out of it, then it would quickly end up with only the hardcore PvP niche. After all, this isn't the 90s, when a MMO could away with doing unpopular things and players would remain due to lack of alternative.

There are game mechanics that could be introduce that would discourage players from quitting/logging off in the middle of a fight (or rather penalties) - there is no discouragement/ penalty for switching to solo at present.

And there should never be. Solo is a legitimate way to play the game, there should be no discouragement for playing in solo. Or for playing in groups, for what matters.
 
The benefit is being able to experience play with other people, who are always a random element that no game could ever simulate. Might be that while bountyhunting at a RES, you suddenly get swarmed by pirate Sidewinders and think: "This is it.. I'm gonna bite spacedust" but suddenly a CMDR in a Viper comes in guns blazing and rips apart their formation, allowing you to finish the job alive.

Might also be the CMDR comes in ripping YOU apart for hunting on "his turf", though... you never know until you find out.

I got interdicted by a CMDR once... escaped by boosting out, but my heart was thumping like hell. His Cobra was superior to my Type 6, and I was unarmed. He interdicted me another time, and this time I submitted. My nerves were breaking down.

I stopped to a halt and hailed him: "Please don't shoot, I am unarmed! There are women and children on board!" (in fact I was carrying imperial slaves, among other things, such as rare commodities).

He answered: "Give me 10 cargo and nobody has to die."

Me: "Just give me a sec... I have my cargo hatch deactivated... need to turn it back online first."

He shoots on my shield, I am freaking out: "PLEASE HOLD YOUR FIRE! I am working as quickly as I can!"

Him: "Sorry, that was a slight.... weapons malfunction. I wanna see cargo floating in 5 seconds or next time I fire deliberately."

I let a ton of Lavian Brandy fly... he takes the bait: "Good man... now a little more of that and you can go."

I'm feverishly trying to assess my options... he shoots again until my shield drops. I am panicking: "Alright, I yield! Cease fire, cease fire!"

"Come on, man... I got five kids to feed", says he.

And I drop four more tons of rares... and boost away from him, charging my FSD as I pass him and accelerate to maximum velocity. He doesn't fire on me... I escape... he wanted 10 tons of cargo, I gave him 5... and turned tail.

The adrenaline rush was insane. I still made a decent profit, but that pirate, too. And the exchange between us was one of the most memorable roleplaying experiences I ever had in an online game.
 
There are penalties already. You have to quit the game through menus to switch to solo. And if you do, your ship is left stranded with no control, effectively a sitting duck for 17 seconds before it disappears. The problem your talking about is if someone ALT F4's or closes the task from the task manager to force quit the game, the server doesn't register the force quit, so they just disappear.

Well you learn something new every day...like I said, I've never pirated anyone. My fears are alleviated that if I get into a fight with a player they can't just dissapear (apart from pulling the plug). My concerns still stand re: players being able to bypass the influence of other players when its not to their liking - just by switching to solo mode, but I am ramping down now....:) Time to go play a little I reckon...
 
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Ummm... you're aware that "switching to solo" requires quitting/logging off, right? You can't "switch to solo" in the middle of the fight without combat-logging or unplugging... which I agree 100% is poor sportsmanship and the action of a lame player but which is totally irrelevant to this thread.

I have to agree entirely. Totally irrelevant. I notice that throughout this thread, the pro choice faction has remained pretty true to it's roots. It's still about a players right to choose how they play the game. The other faction, while not exactly clutching at straws, does seem to be dragging up any argument they can, regardless of relevance, or even likelihood of happening. Still a mildly entertaining read though. :)
 
Choice is not always good...

Just to be clear, I am not a pirate. I have never pirated anyone. But its definitely something I would like the thrill of I reckon, it having been done to me several times.

A scenario...

If a player say is working for a faction I am against - I decide I want to deter him from doing work in a system.

I have to track him down....

I have to make sure I've got the ship that will do the job...

I have to win an interdiction...

I have to be practised enough in combat to get the upper hand....

The other player now has the choice to dissapear.

Not warp out, not use superior tactics or skill to defeat me, not set up an ambush with friends to foil me or any other immersive, dynamic, fun, exciting alternatives...

I feel - well what was the point of doing all that? This game doesn't reward this kind of gameplay, and further more my immersion is ruined.

What is a player like that doing in multiplayer/open mode???

I could have been spending my time tracking another target, preparing for that, spending money and time preparing my ship, practising combat...and it would have been rewarded by the exciting dynamic interactions that only pvp can give.

I can see the choice that some people here are suggesting is to be able to decide when they want a bit of excitement...well, there's an entire galaxy in there!!! Even if Open mode were the only mode in Elite, you still have that choice.

I'm in open, (not right now, right now I'm in the pub getting increasingly hostile glances from my wife and her friends, but anyway) and that is where the vast majority of my gameplay will take place. If you want to deter me from operating in a system you'll have to catch me and blow me up, as nature intended. Because that's the game, and great fun it is too.

But I'm a man with limited time. I barely have enough hours to run one save, let alone two. So if I had to be locked in one mode it'd be solo, since I'd rather be able to play whenever I like, regardless of my mood or level of drunkeness, than be able to interact with others. I suspect I would be far from alone in that choice.

So despite being by my nature antisocial (the glances have turned into meaningful throat clearing and fidgeting) with the system as is, I play in open and will stay there the vast majority of the time. Take the choice away from me, and you'll never see me in open again. Which would be a shame, I'm told I'm a delight.;)
 
I'm in open, (not right now, right now I'm in the pub getting increasingly hostile glances from my wife and her friends, but anyway)...

Somewhat off topic, so sorry, but perhaps if some people feel the game isn't dangerous enough due to all the mode switching and all that, Frontier could rename E : D Elite : Divorce. They wouldn't even have to change the branding.

Agreed with your whole post BTW.
 
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Somewhat off topic, so sorry, but perhaps if some people feel the game isn't dangerous enough due to all the mode switching and all that, Frontier could rename E : D Elite : Divorce. They wouldn't even have to change the branding.

Agreed with your whole post BTW.

It could be a secret plot by the law association to drum up business. I just got eyefinity up and running with a couple of old dell monitors I had lying around after much time and swearing. I am now being told that we have very different definitions of the word "important".
 
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