Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Lucifer Hate]

I'm a dedicated Solo player. I have nothing against Open Play, but tons against griefers. To date, no game has adequately addressed that problem in the immediate moment. Something you are forgetting, is that not all actions affect all modes. The DATA, the trading and kill counts are shared between all games as a permanent function. But there's no real system to deal with someone IDing and fragging everyone who jumps into a system's nav beacon, before they can bolt to a station and buy off their wanted levels. It's nice to see all those SysSec ships when I'm bounty hunting or in a warzone, but they're nowhere to be found when an attacker's jumped away and is supercrusing their way to safety and I'm trying to decide if I want a Sidewinder to replace my old ship.

I don't mind the option of player playing open. And when I feel comfortable, when -I- decide I'm ready to step into that hornet's nest, I'll be glad the option's there. But the day Solo play goes away, is the day I want a refund for ED. The stories I have in ED, are the best ones I've had in a game for a while. Not because of the breadth or depth, but because they're MINE. When I foolishly sold the shield on my Type 6 for more cargo racks, after getting used to a Standard Docking Computer, and accidentally drilled it nose first into the side of a station along with two million credits in gold, I was depressed at first. But then I started giggling my rear off. There was no griefer, no in game problem, nothing that contributed to that situation, other than my own overconfidence and slack pilot skills. I found it funny as hell, and still love telling the story. But that's MY story in ED. It's not one I have to share with someone who bought the game at release, or is an obsessive grinder that wants to thwack me with a Python or an Anaconda just because they can.

I am not talking about the effect from nav points and such. This discussion got merged into this thread and was about the community goals where the game play of all modes have direct effect on each other.

btw I like the story.. + rep for that alone. I think we all have similar stories of goofs like that. Some of my best face palm moments involved when I was still new and would forget whether tired or whatever to get permission to dock.

 

[SiriusSeven]

Previously, I postsed an answer to a couple of calls to close this thread:
...
Not really my intent to infer that this thread is a post graveyard - my mistake and apologies for any misunderstanding

Sorry Maynard. I didn't mean for that to blow up on you.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sorry Maynard. I didn't mean for that to blow up on you.

No apology required - you didn't force me to post....

 

[SiriusSeven]

No apology required - you didn't force me to post....

Any and all politics aside, I was impressed with how quickly you acknowledged that exchange, going so far as to post a detailed transcript. Good on you.

Alight, ... Back on topic now...

 

[Angorak]

You know what? You can have your wish.... when they switch from this P2P mess to a server-client setup.

Right now? It's not worth logging in because some of these poor folks are on substandard machines that can't handle more than 2 or three players connected.

I'll stick to solo, get the same rewards because I paid for the same game you did. My money spent is worth no less or more due to my preference of game mode.

Exactly...well stated. Why should I get LESS value for my dollar just because someone thinks that I deserve LESS because I don't want to present myself as a pew pew target( pointing to Lucifer Hate).

 

[Dave1235]

Not only this, but didn't Braben himself (or perhaps it was Michael Brookes) say that the ability to freely switch between Solo/Group/Open is quite deliberate and will remain a permanent fixture of the game?

I think it was DBOBE in one of the early dev diarys, there are links to it about 100 pages back.

 

[Dave1235]

Lol, nothing "has to" be anything in the first place. Yes FD made the simpliest option, limited the matchmaking to create more game modes, but you know that the solo is really only there instead of offline because being online is a simple DRM right?

Also, everything can change, where's the offline mode? Ohh right...

Cancelling offline saved work & money when they were trying to get the game ready for launch.

Changing the game so the modes are split will cost time & money.

Saving time and money vs costing more time & money, two different things.

 

[cherbert]

Sorry if this example has been raised (I'm sure it has) but I can't read 300+ pages.

I just want to get my experience out there... For a long time I have avoided these Conflict Zones and mainly had a play style that was focused on exploration and trading with the odd interdiction. Last night I decided to head to Lugh and see what the fuss was about. The first half hour or so was immensely enjoyable but it soon wore off as my Cobra was instantly targeted and my shields destroyed within seconds. I sometimes even struggled to run away in time. I re-spawned and repeated at least 10 times. It was a very expensive few hours trying to defend the Crimson State against the Feds.

I have a Kickstarter Cobra so have some of the best components fitted.

I am aware the mechanics are relastic to how it would be going into a real battle but this is a game and game has to be fun. I wasn't having fun.

This game is seriously flawed in the PvP department. When I eventually gave up and went Solo I was suddenly having fun again.

The biggest flaw is that real players will INSTANTLY target lone players in small ships and kick their backsides because... well because I guess they get a kick out of it. However, NPC's are totally unbiased between other NPC's and players and won't go out of their way to pick on you specifically.

I don't know what the answer is - but as I said, for players in small ships its just not fun. Telling us we shouldn't be going into battle in a small ship is just stupid. I don't know if the solution is separate instancing for the bigger ships or scaling based on ship/type and rank. I just don't know. All I know is that this is the single biggest justification for playing Solo right now.

In a game like World of Warcraft they won't allow a Level 1 player to go into a Battleground with a level 85 player. It just isn't fun and that's why they have level based grouping in PvP.

The more I think about it the more I feel the answer is to give the players a choice. So Frontier have already done that - Solo Mode. If someone gets a kick out of getting their ship totaled before they can even deploy their weapons then they can do that. Just like I have the choice to avoid it. At the same time its nice to know I can affect the outcome of the war in my own little way.

Thank you Frontier.

I don't see Elite Dangerous as a proper MMO. Its a co-op game to play with your friends with the chance of meeting lots of other people if you choose. Its a bit like Guild Wars used to be.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Sorry if this example has been raised (I'm sure it has) but I can't read 300+ pages.

I just want to get my experience out there... For a long time I have avoided these Conflict Zones and mainly had a play style that was focused on exploration and trading with the odd interdiction. Last night I decided to head to Lugh and see what the fuss was about. The first half hour or so was immensely enjoyable but it soon wore off as my Cobra was instantly targeted and my shields destroyed within seconds. I sometimes even struggled to run away in time. I re-spawned and repeated at least 10 times. It was a very expensive few hours trying to defend the Crimson State against the Feds.

I have a Kickstarter Cobra so have some of the best components fitted.

I am aware the mechanics are relastic to how it would be going into a real battle but this is a game and game has to be fun. I wasn't having fun.

This game is seriously flawed in the PvP department. When I eventually gave up and went Solo I was suddenly having fun again.

The biggest flaw is that real players will INSTANTLY target lone players in small ships and kick their backsides because... well because I guess they get a kick out of it. However, NPC's are totally unbiased between other NPC's and players and won't go out of their way to pick on you specifically.

I don't know what the answer is - but as I said, for players in small ships its just not fun. Telling us we shouldn't be going into battle in a small ship is just stupid. I don't know if the solution is separate instancing for the bigger ships or scaling based on ship/type and rank. I just don't know. All I know is that this is the single biggest justification for playing Solo right now.

Yeah, I've seen that...

Alot of folks get a kick out of specifically engaging and killing Players basically.
Technically nothing wrong with engaging another Player in a Conflict Zone (everything goes), but when a whole bunch of much larger combat ships instantly drop their lucrative NPC Targets just to gang-up on a lonely Eagle, Viper or Cobra Player on the other team - you know this won't result in a nice experience for that lone guy that just picked "the wrong side".

Not sure if that would help - but "scanning" a conflict zone before entering with some basic numbers shown (how are they occupied for both sides) might help avoid entering these.
(in busy conflict zones before choosing the Faction, targeting every single Player ship to find out its Faction to get the big picture isn't really feasible - especially for smaller ships, many Players in the furball might not even be in scanner range at that moment)

 

[Dave1235]

The right I have is in the fact that I paid for the game as well and the way they are ignoring this balancing issue affects the my ability to earn rewards in the game. If a solo player that is not facing the same type pf risks knock an open player down tiers because they can contribute in a safer environment then that affects ny game play. You say that no 1 should have the right to tell you what game mode you play in for rewards but in the same token I should not be able to be forced to go into a different game mode in order to be able to be competitive in said rewards. People in solo and group are facing less risk and not only get the same rewards but are also able to affect the reward tiers of open players when it is so much easier to farm the combat bonds in solo and group.

I saw a suggestion earlier of separate tiers for which mode you play and perhaps that would be an answer so that solo group and open are not competing with each other. The way it is now is a completely lopsided competition.

Have you tried doing the community goals in solo for a bit, to confirm they are easier than in open, or is this pure speculation about an imaginary problem?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Have you tried doing the community goals in solo for a bit, to confirm they are easier than in open, or is this pure speculation about an imaginary problem?

Although I wasn't addressed, I did exactly that back in Yembo.

Solo : ultra-easy mode. I could have grinded that in a shieldless Type-9, for as long as I could stand the grind. Delivered ~26000tons within 6 hours or so. Good chances of making Top spot, for a brief Moment I made it #4 overall.

Open : holy moly! Ultra-hardcore mode instead. I only risked a Type-6 and was glad I used this ride - Interdiction Hell deluxe! Never did so many PvP Evasions in my whole life. Barely managed ~400tons through that Chaos. Reaching top 5% or even top spots? Not a chance in hell.

It was a hughe difference, at least during busy Play hours. So hughe, there were Lightyears between Solo and Open when drawn on a difficulty scale.
I fully expected action to pick up significantly and was ready for it - but what I saw in Open was insane. After 2 hours I was finished and done for, all sweaty. Loved the intense action - but I'm too old for these intensity levels

 

[cherbert]

Have you tried doing the community goals in solo for a bit, to confirm they are easier than in open, or is this pure speculation about an imaginary problem?

I can confirm they are easier. That doesn't mean its easy to the point of you can never die. But it just feels more balanced (AND THUS MORE FUN). Like I said in my main post - the biggest difference is that NPC's won't target you because its fun to kill the little lone guy who just dropped into the zone. They will fight all and everyone with no bias towards the weak. This has the effect of giving everyone an even chance in the chaos of a large battle.

Last night this just wasn't happening. There were very few people backing the Crimson State and everytime I dropped into the Conflict Zone I was singled out by the real players in their big ships within seconds. I had zero chance.

I also witnessed fewer large ships - I'm only guessing here but it felt like Frontier were scaling the NPC's relative to your ship and skill.

 

[Snakebite]

Cancelling offline saved work & money when they were trying to get the game ready for launch.

Changing the game so the modes are split will cost time & money.

In it simplest implementation it would be about 10 mins coding time

It could be as simple as: after 10 hrs gameplay you can't change modes without a restart. Braben could do that on his lunch break if he wanted.

 

[Sim Maker]

It seems pretty obvious that there should be extra incentives to play/trade in Open as opposed to the safety of Solo (And I say this as a Solo player)...........Solo players will moan and groan, but how else can FD get players in to open, excpet with incentives and encourgment....
.
Either that, or make Solo, a LOT more dangerous.......Maybe they can set it up so that, if an area is teaming with Open players, then a similar amount of Solo NPC Interdictors are generated..............that sounds "fair".........and would kind of even out the Solo/Open Galaxy..........as long as FD make some areas really Secure so that the Euro Truckers can still play risk free cargo hauling..........as that really is a different game of logistics as opposed to combat.......

 

[cherbert]

It seems pretty obvious that there should be extra incentives to play/trade in Open as opposed to the safety of Solo (And I say this as a Solo player)...........Solo players will moan and groan, but how else can FD get players in to open, excpet with incentives and encourgment....
.
Either that, or make Solo, a LOT more dangerous.......Maybe they can set it up so that, if an area is teaming with Open players, then a similar amount of Solo NPC Interdictors are generated..............that sounds "fair".........and would kind of even out the Solo/Open Galaxy..........as long as FD make some areas really Secure so that the Euro Truckers can still play risk free cargo hauling..........as that really is a different game of logistics as opposed to combat.......

Explain to me why Frontier are bothered? Why does players avoiding Open hurt the game in any way? There will always be enough players to satisfy the PvP people. An instance can only support up to 16 people anyway.

I often hear the argument regarding this massive need to incentivise us all. There is no requirement to do so. Frontier Developments have absolutely no reason or desire to incentivise us either. We are all playing in the same persistent universe, we are just filtering each other out.

All Frontier care about is that there are large amounts of people online having fun and buying their expansions and skins. Playing the game the way they want to play it.

 

[Sim Maker]

Explain to me why Frontier are bothered? Why does players avoiding Open hurt the game in any way? There will always be enough players to satisfy the PvP people. An instance can only support up to 16 people anyway.

They are obviously bothered, hence all the Buffs to Bounty Hunting, Mining and Exploring, and their comments that Trading is far too powerful compared to the other careers......
.
They obviously listen to their comminity, hence this Threadzilla, they KNOW this is an issue.....
.
And really, do you think it is right that around the Raresa hubs of Leesti, Diso, Lave, etc etc etc.......Open players/traders are losing big trying to run blockades etc......yet Solo traders are just strolling in to the same stations as if about to catch a train on a sunny day?........
.
If Jump in to a system in Solo, and it has 1 sun, 8 planets and a station.........I would expect the same for an Open player...........If there is a cap ship and conflict zones in Solo, I would expect the same in Open..............yet, when Open goes nutz over a blockade or some such as happens around the rares ports, it would be good to have the same "Intensity" brought to the Solo game.......
.
Really, it is crazy that they are fighting for their lives, and others are just strolling in.....yet the rewards are the same...........

 

[SiriusSeven]

In it simplest implementation it would be about 10 mins coding time

It could be as simple as: after 10 hrs gameplay you can't change modes without a restart. Braben could do that on his lunch break if he wanted.

Even if they wanted to (and they don't), it would never happen before multiple CMDR slots. It's not as simple as restricting that start screen menu selection.

 

[Phosphora]

In it simplest implementation it would be about 10 mins coding time

It could be as simple as: after 10 hrs gameplay you can't change modes without a restart. Braben could do that on his lunch break if he wanted.

Able to is one thing. Willing to is another.

What will you do if Mr Braben refuses to make this change?

Cheers, Phos.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Everything will be okay!

 

[Janichsan]

They are obviously bothered, hence all the Buffs to Bounty Hunting, Mining and Exploring, and their comments that Trading is far too powerful compared to the other careers......

Nothing of this has anything to do with open/solo.

FD has neither intention nor interest to give any of the modes bonuses. Their declared stance is that all the modes are treated equal and that it's the player's choice how they want to play.