The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

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Based on the time the studio was rented for and the rent cost per day I presume.

People will try to disregard EVERYTHING that goes against their beliefs.
I don't believe at all, i mean, far people on the industry say based on mo-cap (with acting as obvious) for games, it's not that much, some of the actors of the SC cast had did similar work for much smaller games than SC, that may be around 3(?) Millions for the cast. Now. the mo-capture cost 20 Million on 2 MONTHS? That's just ridiculous, not even movies are that expensive.

I honestly just wanted evidence and proof of all this preaches that have been going on, but there is Hate Cult in one side, and one Love Cult on the other side, while most of the people are still on the middle, this is incredible draining to assist to. It's even more frustrating, when people label a whole community to be X and Y based on something someone or a group did or say. --'
 
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Not positive as valid, that's not what i mean.

His comments about 20 Million motion capture shot are just... off. I mean what game spent 20 Million on that?! This is not a Hollywood movie, this is the game industry. I mean seriously, where is that based on? o_O

Some points he got things wrong:
- "Foundry 42 made lego games" Erin Roberts worked on the Lego games, Foundry 42 is the England studio of Cloud Imperium Games.
- "The fact they were married is hidden!" (Roberts and Sandi) ...No. It was never hidden, it's been known (not hidden from during the very first stream).
- "Sandi is billed higher than Gillian", Sandi isnt billed at all in the actual trailer.

It's just a complicated story on this that really, nobody anymore can get the facts straight. I believe some things are shouted as the "truth" for so long, that people already believe they are the truth, but the problem, is that some things do not have pillars to sustain them when you look into it.

20 million comes from the fact that the motion capture was done for 90 days, and used one of the largest motion capture studios in the world, it is estimated to cost $100k a day to use, not counting actor fees.

Foundry 42 is headed and made up from Erin Roberts past studio, a studio that did in fact make Lego games. The fact the name changed does not matter. Does it matter? The lego games were good.

The fact they were married was in fact hidden, with CR and Sandi spending the last 3 years trying to hide it. They closed and locked any thread about it, removed photos showing their relationship off of public domains in an attempt to hide it. It is well known that they tried to hide their relationship, the fact they did it poorly is another matter. Just another of CIG's fans attempts to change history I see.


Actually Sandi is billed higher then Gillian
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42



star-citizen-cast.jpg



Oh ya so the 6 million stretch goal for motion capture in SQ42? Ya people expected that to be done in the motion capture studio that was the 10million stretch goal.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12979-Motion-Capture-Behaviour-Visit
Not done in yet a different motion capture studio. The point of the 10 million stretch goal was so that they would not have to spend so much using a 3rd parties motion capture studio.
 
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20 million comes from the fact that the motion capture was done for 90 days, and used one of the largest motion capture studios in the world, it is estimated to cost $100k a day to use, not counting actor fees.

Foundry 42 is headed and made up from Erin Roberts past studio, a studio that did in fact make Lego games. The fact the name changed does not matter. Does it matter? The lego games were good.

The fact they were married was in fact hidden, with CR and Sandi spending the last 3 years trying to hide it. Trying to change history again I see.


Actually Sandi is billed higher then Gillian
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42
http://cdn-static.denofgeek.com/sit...lic/5/00//star-citizen-cast.jpg?itok=rxI4iqOS

60 Days** not 90. This also mentioned by some of the actors part of the cast. And most recently by a CIG Dev on UK.

If it is estimated to 100K a day, at the maxes the motion-capture and acting costed 6 Millions (this also assuming they worked every single day on it, without days off, the price still counts it). And about the cast, most of the actors of it are not that expensive, the real "Top Actor" on that cast is Gary Oldman, that one had to be expensive to get. You are over-estimating what actors get paid for working on the video-game industry vs the movie industry.

It was decently known, i mean on the original announcements and streams of Star Citizen it wasn't hidden, it simple after that wasn't public, they were on a company they had to behave professionally, not like husband and wife. Of course you could not discuss matters of any of the CIG employees on the official places of Star Citizen, the same way you can't discuss on who or why X or Y got fired. Feel free to show me a single piece of content, written, video or audio, where they denied Roberts and Sandi were married (i'm actually not fully aware of that, that's why i'm asking).
 
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60 Days** not 90. This also mentioned by some of the actors part of the cast. And most recently by a CIG Dev on UK.

If it is estimated to 100K a day, at the maxes the motion-capture and acting costed 6 Millions. And about the cast, most of the actors of it are not that expensive, the real "Top Actor" on that cast is Gary Oldman, that one had to be expensive to get. You are over-estimating what actors get paid for working on the video-game industry vs the movie industry.

It was decently known, i mean on the original announcements and streams of Star Citizen it wasn't hidden, it simple after that wasn't public, they were on a company they had to behave professionally, not like husband and wife. Of course you could not discuss matters of any of the CIG employees on the official places of Star Citizen, the same way you can't discuss on who or why X or Y got fired. Feel free to show me a single piece of content, written, video or audio, where they denied Roberts and Sandi were married.

LOL, so now you are trying to change history? It is a well known fact that they tried to hide their marriage.

So Ben stating that they are not married does not count? Also they don't have to deny it in order to try and hide it, that's just a strawman argument and as such can be ignored.

[video]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/2ll7eb/ben_lesnick_on_a_podcast_tonight_addressing/[/video]

I see you ignored all the other points.

Oh and it is 90 days, CR states they are at the motion capture studio for 3 months (~1 min in).

[video=youtube;T4oOL26Qn7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oOL26Qn7U[/video]


Would you mind actually addressing the questions and corrections to your statements that people make. I am waiting for a lot of links from you.

As you missed it.

Oh ya so the 6 million stretch goal for motion capture in SQ42? Ya people expected that to be done in the motion capture studio that was the 10million stretch goal.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...ehaviour-Visit
Not done in yet a different motion capture studio. The point of the 10 million stretch goal was so that they would not have to spend so much using a 3rd parties motion capture studio.
 
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jcrg99

Banned
What I have never understood is that the key to fixing the multiplayer is ex-Crytech employee's. CryEngine is known for its poor multiplayer. Ok I am sure that is something Crytech have been working on since the launch of the engine, and are having a hard time fixing it. So why would you hire the very people that have proven to not have the capacity to fix it? That just seems backwards, if the key to fixing the CryEngine is hiring Ex-Crytech employee's, why has Crytech not been able to fix it?

I think that I have an answer for that.

Because the architects of the engine, obviously will know more than anyone else about to change the engine.

And probably, while working for Crytek, they haven't the budget/time available, a focus of the Crytek business to invest in improvements in the area, so they were investing in other stuff, not to make Crytek a MMO engine.

But definitely it does not mean that they are the ones to transform Crytek in a MMO engine. It does not mean that they have any clue on how to make a proper engine for MMO and, to be fair, to the level of fidelity that CR went (more for hype/cash grabbing than to make a feasible/maintainable game) I think that anyone in the world would have such capability to make it work properly with whatever engine available, in any time soon.

But for starters, I think that getting the Crytek folks was a good decision, if you are willing to try.
 
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LOL, so now you are trying to change history? It is a well known fact that they tried to hide their marriage.

So Ben stating that they are not married does not count? Also they don't have to deny it in order to try and hide it, that's just a strawman argument and as such can be ignored.

[video]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/2ll7eb/ben_lesnick_on_a_podcast_tonight_addressing/[/url]

I see you ignored all the other points.

Oh and it is 90 days, CR states they are at the motion capture studio for 3 months (~1 min in).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oOL26Qn7U


Would you mind actually addressing the questions and corrections to your statements that people make. I am waiting for a lot of links from you.
Oh i stand corrected, was odd because as mentioned 2 months, maybe some actors did only participated during part of it.
But now recalling correctly, the Imaginarium studios were also used for the Capture of the FPS Animations, some animations also used on the ships and other bits.

But we still stand on the same cost, The Imaginarium Studios real cost, that studio is used for actual movies, would it be the same cost the fact it's a videogame? We will end up again on speculation, but even if it was 3 months of 3 MILLION a month, it would still not reach even half of the 20M cap, unless you come now saying that the cast is being paid 10 millions for 2/3 months of work.... yep.

About Sandi, i think Roberts gave it away on the Kickstarter, but it ended up not being confirmed by Sandi herself (did she had to?), the thing is, on the community most people always acted like Roberts and Sandi were married (this since the time i have been on the community). But let's get to the real point: What does that matter? That Roberts and Sandi are married, and that Erin is Roberts brother? What does it prove? Why there is such a big deal about it?

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I think that I have an answer for that.

Because the architects of the engine, obviously will know more than anyone else about to change the engine.

And probably, while working for Crytek, they haven't the budget/time available, a focus of the Crytek business to invest in improvements in the area, so they were investing in other stuff, not to make Crytek a MMO engine.

Cryengine was already converted to a MMO engine, most recently on Archage (F2P meh game but running on Cryengine). Crytek wasn't on good health time ago, if it wasn't Amazon to put in 20 million, they would not exist today. And i think Amazon did so because far recently news go, Amazon is now getting into the Game Industry.
 

jcrg99

Banned
Cryengine was already converted to a MMO engine, most recently on Archage (F2P meh game but running on Cryengine). Crytek wasn't on good health time ago, if it wasn't Amazon to put in 20 million, they would not exist today. And i think Amazon did so because far recently news go, Amazon is now getting into the Game Industry.

Why you have always to be so silly... I could make several MMO's with CryEngine, of all kinds... no doubt...
The problem is how you push the fidelity of the assets, etc. with it, and then want to make it work in a MMO set.
Pretty sure that Archeage is not the case.
 
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Why you have always to be so silly... I could make several MMO's with CryEngine, of all kinds... no doubt...
The problem is how you push the fidelity of the assets, etc. with it, and then want to make it work in a MMO set.
Pretty sure that Archeage is not the case.
Archeage is its own game, but it's FULLY persistent towards thousands of people on the same server. In terms of tech that MMO is actually more advanced that what i usually see (on F2P MMOs), because the many types of gameplay it can have. Goes from normal fighting stuff, to flying, to navigating ships / combat, etc...

Haven't you noticed recently we are getting MMOs on a higher level of fidelity , but turning out on instanced systems? Even if there is no loading screens, it's no longer 1 Server like before.
 
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Oh i stand corrected, was odd because as mentioned 2 months, maybe some actors did only participated during part of it.
But now recalling correctly, the Imaginarium studios were also used for the Capture of the FPS Animations, some animations also used on the ships and other bits.

But we still stand on the same cost, The Imaginarium Studios real cost, that studio is used for actual movies, would it be the same cost the fact it's a videogame? We will end up again on speculation, but even if it was 3 months of 3 MILLION a month, it would still not reach even half of the 20M cap, unless you come now saying that the cast is being paid 10 millions for 2/3 months of work.... yep.

About Sandi, i think Roberts gave it away on the Kickstarter, but it ended up not being confirmed by Sandi herself (did she had to?), the thing is, on the community most people always acted like Roberts and Sandi were married (this since the time i have been on the community). But let's get to the real point: What does that matter? That Roberts and Sandi are married, and that Erin is Roberts brother? What does it prove? Why there is such a big deal about it?

- - - Updated - - -



Cryengine was already converted to a MMO engine, most recently on Archage (F2P meh game but running on Cryengine). Crytek wasn't on good health time ago, if it wasn't Amazon to put in 20 million, they would not exist today. And i think Amazon did so because far recently news go, Amazon is now getting into the Game Industry.

Well you think its a big deal, you are the one trying to change history about it. The fact is, CR and Sandi tried to hide their relationship, why they felt the need to hide that relationship, and why they thought that relationship was necessary to hide is something you will have to ask them.

It was 3 months, as CR stated as such. The cost of cast and crew for 3 months (food, housing, transportation, and actual salary) does add up, never mind minor cost of sets and other fee's. It is unlikely we will ever know how much it cost. But the real question is why they didn't use the motion capture studio that backers payed for in the 10 million stretch goal. You keep harping about how we can't get mad if they keep their promises (even though that is a strawman argument, because when you deal with such vege statements, how you keep those promises is what counts), and yet you have no problem with them breaking them.
 
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Oh i stand corrected, was odd because as mentioned 2 months, maybe some actors did only participated during part of it.
But now recalling correctly, the Imaginarium studios were also used for the Capture of the FPS Animations, some animations also used on the ships and other bits.

But we still stand on the same cost, The Imaginarium Studios real cost, that studio is used for actual movies, would it be the same cost the fact it's a videogame? We will end up again on speculation, but even if it was 3 months of 3 MILLION a month, it would still not reach even half of the 20M cap, unless you come now saying that the cast is being paid 10 millions for 2/3 months of work.... yep.

About Sandi, i think Roberts gave it away on the Kickstarter, but it ended up not being confirmed by Sandi herself (did she had to?), the thing is, on the community most people always acted like Roberts and Sandi were married (this since the time i have been on the community). But let's get to the real point: What does that matter? That Roberts and Sandi are married, and that Erin is Roberts brother? What does it prove? Why there is such a big deal about it?

- - - Updated - - -



Cryengine was already converted to a MMO engine, most recently on Archage (F2P meh game but running on Cryengine). Crytek wasn't on good health time ago, if it wasn't Amazon to put in 20 million, they would not exist today. And i think Amazon did so because far recently news go, Amazon is now getting into the Game Industry.

It illustrates quite well how pro and anti CIG people argue.

And the point gets missed.

The question - if there is one - is why was Sandi appointed as the whatever she is of marketing when she has no apparent experience in marketing games? Whether she is or isn't married has no real bearing on the wisdom of that appointment - she either is a good choice or isn't.

But instead of asking the real question the antis kept focusing on "Why did CR appoint his wife as the whatever of marketing?"

Which then allows the pros to answer "Prove that she is married - nowhere does it say they are married."

The CR says "Were married"

At which point the answer changes to "Well of course we always knew they were married it was obvious from the start - but it's still irrelevant" referring to the "obvious" clues in videos that were strangely never referred to prior to CR statement about his marriage.

And still the real question is ignored.

Like the Reddit guys now picking on silly mistakes Scott Manley made which have no real bearing on the discussion whilst completely ignoring the points that do.

It's just how arguing works on the internet isn't it?
 
Well you think its a big deal, you are the one trying to change history about it. The fact is, CR and Sandi tried to hide their relationship, why they felt the need to hide that relationship, and why they thought that relationship was necessary to hide is something you will have to ask them.

It was 3 months, as CR stated as such. The cost of cast and crew for 3 months (food, housing, transportation, and actual salary) does add up, never mind minor cost of sets and other fee's. It is unlikely we will ever know how much it cost. But the real question is why they didn't use the motion capture studio that backers payed for in the 10 million stretch goal. You keep harping about how we can't get mad if they keep their promises, and yet you have no problem with them breaking them.

I actually said if you see adobe posts: "(i'm actually not fully aware of that, that's why i'm asking)".

We had 2 goals here, 10 Million for the actual last goal of the motion capture, and 5 Million for the celebrity casting. For me i'm happy with their focus on Squadron 42, what they shown is good news, if it is about money, we don't know. They can even spend 80 Million on the Squadron 42 and only 10 Million on the actual MMO, as long they deliver it, and the features are there, the promise isn't broken.

But i think we can know, it all depends if CIG will disclose some level of their financials in terms of how the game is got its budget spent, i defend them to do that, and i believe they will, if the backers ask for it. (some already do but it's a minority)
 
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jcrg99

Banned
It illustrates quite well how pro and anti CIG people argue.

And the point gets missed.

The question - if there is one - is why was Sandi appointed as the whatever she is of marketing when she has no apparent experience in marketing games? Whether she is or isn't married has no real bearing on the wisdom of that appointment - she either is a good choice or isn't.

But instead of asking the real question the antis kept focusing on "Why did CR appoint his wife as the whatever of marketing?"

Which then allows the pros to answer "Prove that she is married - nowhere does it say they are married."

The CR says "Were married"

At which point the answer changes to "Well of course we always knew they were married it was obvious from the start - but it's still irrelevant" referring to the "obvious" clues in videos that were strangely never referred to prior to CR statement about his marriage.

And still the real question is ignored.

Like the Reddit guys now picking on silly mistakes Scott Manley made which have no real bearing on the discussion whilst completely ignoring the points that do.

It's just how arguing works on the internet isn't it?

In my defense (since probably people refer to me as one anti-SC) I think that the most important question is exactly the one that you referred. Derek Smart actually mentioned that too, that the issue was not been wife, but what that implies. But then, the back and forth of she is not wife... oh she is... provoked by the WK (not by the Black Nights), transformed the issue, was if the main questions was if she was wife or not, instead what that implies.

The fact that she has no skill neither as VP of Marketing, support/hr, nor as actress, but she is put in these important roles, even as "co-founder".
The thing is, that its pretty obvious that if she wasn't wife, she wouldn't be in these roles. Period.

And that means the owner of the company misusing the backers money in its own benefit. It could be acceptable in the beginning, but after so many leads leaving,
actual professionals, it does not make sense than an actual professional is not hired to be in charge of the marketing area to make something that is not shortsighted, as are always the CIG plans, always looking for quick/easy money, disconnected of the reality of the capacity of the company to deliver into the hype/promises made through marketing. To do not mention the tons of bait-and-switch that are against the law and made the company unprotected/liable.

A "good/successful marketing" depends of the purpose. If it was just make money for CR/Sandi's personal plans, obviously was a great plan. But in terms of keeping
a company that is starter growing instead screwing its reputation, consumer trust, specially because they work for a hardcore niche, with a game specific for a restricted public
(due hardward requirements too), their marketing was suicidal for the medium/long term of the company. And all these side effects already started to be felt since a few months ago,
and the trend is only to become worst.
Why the hell they would make such effort to bring so many people earlier, knowing that it causes disappointment in many? That is not been consumer-oriented. Not thinking in retention... the most important factor of any MMO... That is not what a good marketing strategy is. Disconnected to the reality of the market, how gamers behave, etc. But well... to feed this nonsense marketing plan of selling concepts/ships, they risk to lose a good chunk of a public that is already tiny by default.

So, what was the plan? Making money for CR future ventures in the Movies/personal objectives? Boost Sandi's actress career? Expand their Hollywood network? Then I agree. Great plan. But for the game, for CIG, for maintenance of trust on crowdfunding of potential/general consumers, was the worst possible.
 
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In my defense (since probably people refer to me as one anti-SC) I think that the most important question is exactly the one that you referred. Derek Smart actually mentioned that too,
that the issue was not been wife, but what that implies.

The fact that she has no skill neither as VP of Marketing, nor as actress, but she is put in these important roles, even as "co-founder".
The thing is, that its pretty obvious that if she wasn't wife, she wouldn't be in these roles. Period.

And that means the owner of the company misusing the backers money in its own benefit. It could be acceptable in the beginning, but after so many leads leaving,
actual professionals, it does not make sense than an actual professional is hired to be in charge of the marketing area to make something that is not shortsighted,
as are always the CIG plans, always looking for quick/easy money, disconnected of the reality of the capacity of the company to deliver into the hype/promises
made through marketing. To do not mention the tons of bait-and-switch that are against the law and made the company unprotected/liable.

A "good/successful marketing" depends of the purpose. If it was just make money for CR/Sandi's personal plans, obviously was a great plan. But in terms of keeping
a company that is starter growing instead screwing its reputation, consumer trust, specially because they work for a hardcore niche, with a game specific for a restricted public
(due hardward requirements too), their marketing was suicidal for the medium/long term of the company. And all these side effects already started to be felt since a few months ago,
and the trend is only to become worst.

So, what was the plan? Making money for CR future ventures in the Movies/personal objectives? Boost Sandi's actress career? Expand their Hollywood network? Then I agree. Great plan. But for the game, for CIG, for maintenance of trust on crowdfunding of potential/general consumers, was the worst possible.

The thing is, Star Citizen has no real marketing, the only places the company spends money on on marketing, are the Game Conferences and things as Merchandise, at the end of the day her job is not fundamental for the company if she does it well or wrong.
What CIG needs, is a PR team, because the communication is flawed when we talk about things like the way Roberts didn't help himself from going public on his reply to The Escapists.
 
In my defense (since probably people refer to me as one anti-SC) I think that the most important question is exactly the one that you referred. Derek Smart actually mentioned that too,
that the issue was not been wife, but what that implies.

The fact that she has no skill neither as VP of Marketing, nor as actress, but she is put in these important roles, even as "co-founder".
The thing is, that its pretty obvious that if she wasn't wife, she wouldn't be in these roles. Period.

And that means the owner of the company misusing the backers money in its own benefit. It could be acceptable in the beginning, but after so many leads leaving,
actual professionals, it does not make sense than an actual professional is hired to be in charge of the marketing area to make something that is not shortsighted,
as are always the CIG plans, always looking for quick/easy money, disconnected of the reality of the capacity of the company to deliver into the hype/promises
made through marketing. To do not mention the tons of bait-and-switch that are against the law and made the company unprotected/liable.

A "good/successful marketing" depends of the purpose. If it was just make money for CR/Sandi's personal plans, obviously was a great plan. But in terms of keeping
a company that is starter growing instead screwing its reputation, consumer trust, specially because they work for a hardcore niche, with a game specific for a restricted public
(due hardward requirements too), their marketing was suicidal for the medium/long term of the company. And all these side effects already started to be felt since a few months ago,
and the trend is only to become worst.

So, what was the plan? Making money for CR future ventures/personal objectives? Then I agree. Great plan.

I think it's simpler than that.

Is someone qualified for the job or not?

Don't have a problem with "nepotism" I'd rather give jobs to members of my family than give the job to a stranger - assuming the member of the family is qualified to do the job and the job needs doing.
 
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I think it's simpler than that.

Is someone the best person available for the job or not?

Don't have a problem with "nepotism" I'd rather give jobs to members of my family than give the job to a stranger - assuming the member of the family is qualified to do the job and the job needs doing.

It's quite, when the Executive Producer left (that by the way didn't left for any new job till today unlike the rumors stated), CIG had the problem of, who the hell will they place on such important position. Hire someone outside of the project would be just bad, Erin was there, he already had some experience, and it just happened. It's a big responsibility there also on the trust Roberts needed to had on the person, and it happened.

My biggest worry is on the production team, because something like this if it doesn't have a top-notch production team, to manage development on 4 studios, things tend to.... Delay.
 

jcrg99

Banned
The thing is, Star Citizen has no real marketing

Bull. Their entire focus is on marketing. All things. Even what they develop is directed to feed the marketing plan. Probably caused by the fact that CR, as husband, want to make her plan to "succeed" in the short term. If wasn't, they would release a game, game features, and then improve the assets later, and then promote, or even care to bring more people so earlier, through all trade shows, cons, and new schemes.
 
I just watched Scott Manleys latest, and I thought it was impartial, thorough and well thought out whilst being funny.

I think he was right to send it from Scotland though, the drizzle will extinguish the flaming torches of any fundamentalist mobs who track him down.
 

jcrg99

Banned
I think it's simpler than that.

Is someone qualified for the job or not?

Don't have a problem with "nepotism" I'd rather give jobs to members of my family than give the job to a stranger - assuming the member of the family is qualified to do the job and the job needs doing.

Since when a person with just a degree and no experience is qualified to a Executive Marketing position of a multi-million dollars company selling products/services around the globe? She could be qualified to a trainee position. Not as VP of Marketing, Support Lead, HR lead, "co-founder", "special role in the middle of Hollywood stars" and so on.
 
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Bull. Their entire focus is on marketing. All things. Even what they develop is directed to feed the marketing plan. Probably caused by the fact that CR, as husband, want to make her plan to "succeed" in the short term. If wasn't, they would release a game, game features, and then improve the assets later, and then promote, or even care to bring more people so earlier, through all trade shows, cons, and new schemes.
I don't see the Marketing going on. Things like the shows are paid by the subscribers, not the actual funded backer money, and side of what i mentioned, what they do is sell ships. But is selling ships marketing? They are not advertising it outside their own already backer community, and they are not spending backer money on it, it has the opposite effect, more money.
And if anything, selling ships actually causes a negative impact outside the actual SC community towards the project.
 
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I finally had time to give PTU 1.3.0 a try and it felt really good. Can't wait to be able to play Star Citizen Alpha 2.0

Good times for space games on PC. Elite: Dangerous, X-series, Star Citizen, etc. Quite amazing how much time people are spending on useless drama instead of playing all these great games.
 
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