The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[swfanatic717]

"I'm a backer and i want this project i backed to fail to have more entertainment fun with the drama that would follow."

There Max goes again misconstruing what other people say and putting words in other people's mouths.

I said before that nobody buys into a project because they want to watch it fail, and that's still true. Everybody bought in at first because they were expecting a fun space game. Then they became disillusioned with CIG and their antics and simply aren't requesting their money back. They definitely aren't putting any more money into it now that they're pessimistic about it. However, important to note is that they don't want SC to fail, they just don't mind if it does.

There is no reason to pay a full price game equivalent for just watching "drama", you can "enjoy" all that stuff for free. All the marketing stuff like the YouTube shows and of course stuff like Arena Commander, which is again free for all this week.

There is no reason to stick with a low-tier pledge (< $1000), because CIG treats those backers like bystanders and restricts their forum access. With <$40 you don't even count as a recruit in their referral system. And you can't even ask the chairman questions without a subscription.

There is absolutely no sensible reason to buy or hold a starter pack or low-tier pledge. If you have one already, it's the smarter option to get paid out by the whales. And then buy the game, if and when it is finished, tested and proven good.

You're right that the rational thing to do is to get a refund, but if you've studied economics you'll have learnt that real people are far from rational.

As I said above, nobody paid to watch drama. Everybody paid for a game at first, but have since decided to let CIG keep the money because of various reasons, be it the cost for a lesson in the nature of crowdfunding, or considering the money lost anyway, or wanting to load up SC once in a while to see if it's gotten any better, or even simply being too lazy to type an email. Like all real human beings their reasons aren't going to be completely rational.

At the time, we were on track to have 2.0 on the live servers by today or tomorrow. Unfortunately, as folks testing and observing know, we were hit with a slowdown bug that seemed to come out of nowhere. (For those not following the testing chatter, that’s why you haven’t see a PTU build in the last two days.) Knowing what we do now, we would have liked to have changed the exact wording on the trailer.

I don't see how they didn't see the delay coming. Given their track record it was practically guaranteed it would be delayed. I don't know which is worst, that they went with the trailer because they figured the PTU would miraculously release without a hitch and didn't plan for uncertainties, that they thought it was going to be delayed but decided to go with the trailer anyway to get attention, or that the delays actually exceeded their most pessimistic estimates. It's problematic either way.

 

[knowles2]

Thought this might be of interest:

Source:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri.../alpha-2-0-trailer-confusion-our-apologies/p1

That sound like nonsense to me. These events are organise by people who almost expect publishers demanding changes at the last minute, I find it unlikely that the event organisers wouldn't allowed them to change one title card in a video, especially one that is inaccurate, especially as it doesn't change the video length, the most important part of making sure these events don't overrun is making sure videos and people speaking don't overrun.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Okay it seems they're on RC testing of the H update, it's been a while since last Patch the FPS issue is hitting hard. Also seems optimizations are also on patch that are WIP that can cause new crashes but seems to be to help fix awful problems with CPU multi-core usage and SLI.

Here's some quite footage of the Connie explosion inside, it ends with a bug as it teleports and the player somehow survives lol
EDIT: had to create another URL to the video because the forum Censorship censored the YT video ID, well that's fun xD: http://bit.ly/1N9e1Sa

Also this one of more compiled gameplay session, feels nicer to watch than the actual trailer released yesterday for me:

[video=youtube;jaJ52ZkWg64]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaJ52ZkWg64&feature=youtu.be[/video]

That sound like nonsense to me. These events are organise by people who almost expect publishers demanding changes at the last minute.

Do you know that for a matter of fact that these events do allow or even actually do last-minute changes on things like this? It sounds the contrary to me, this things are so rehearsed as everything shown in marketing is prepared with anticipation. And the update could very well had come yesterday if it wasn't the FPS bug that and they aren't lying on this, came out of nowhere stopping a daily patches rhythm we had since PTU launch.
Oh wait it's CIG so it has to be some conspiracy about all being a master-plan to mislead people again, as usual.

 

[Helfix]

No Patches on PTU since 2 days ago, that FPS issue ugh. Edit: Okay it seems they're on RC testing of the H update.

Here's some quite footage of the Connie explosion inside, it ends with a bug as it teleports and the player somehow survives lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zcsh:):):):)PY

Also this one of more compiled gameplay session, feels nicer to watch than the actual trailer released yesterday for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaJ52ZkWg64&feature=youtu.be


Do you know that for a matter of fact that these events do allow or even actually do last-minute changes on things like this? It sounds the contrary to me, this things are so rehearsed as everything shown in marketing is prepared with anticipation. And the update could very well had come yesterday if it wasn't the FPS bug that and they aren't lying on this, came out of nowhere stopping a daily patches rhythm we had since PTU launch.
Oh wait it's CIG so it has to be some conspiracy about all being a master-plan to mislead people again, as usual.

You have got to be kidding me. The fact is, CIG got greedy and it bit them in the behind really hard. If you look on all other forms of media such as /r/starcitizen and even the main forums most people agree that CIG was greedy and all of them were baffled that CIG would do something like that.

CIG should of known better, hell at this point its sheer incompetency on their part if it was "just a mistake" and not a greedy move that backfired. They have failed on every single date they have given to the backer base the past 3 years. Did they honestly think this time would be different?

That is why there is so much backlash at CIG on this issue.

 

[MaxLexandre]

You have got to be kidding me. The fact is, CIG got greedy and it bit them in the behind really hard. If you look on all other forms of media such as /r/starcitizen and even the main forums most people agree that CIG was greedy and all of them were baffled that CIG would do something like that.

CIG should of known better, hell at this point its sheer incompetency on their part if it was "just a mistake" and not a greedy move that backfired. They have failed on every single date they have given to the backer base the past 3 years. Did they honestly think this time would be different?

That is why there is so much backlash at CIG on this issue.

But they haven't gave any date there. And without the FPS issue the PTU was decently stable to a push to live, so it wasn't that off. If they did that on propose i don't see any positive outcome unless they are plain dumb to be unaware that wouldn't boost sales once people figured out no 2.0 yet, has the turn out was them apologizing for messing up, specially on the Livestream earlier today. It is certainly a bad fail for them here, CIG needs to stop predicting releases as a whole and keep it as it has been with the start of 2.0.

But side of that it's really a non-issue over a single Word on the end of that trailer (and nothing new), as it can be mislead for new people to think 2.0 is released but it also doesn't clearly says 2.0 is Live. And even if it was done on purpose, or they didn't cared to do the change, they haven't lied when it said "Playable now with alpha 2.0" (because it is, on PTU), the marketing magic.

 

[Ozram]

That sound like nonsense to me. These events are organise by people who almost expect publishers demanding changes at the last minute, I find it unlikely that the event organisers wouldn't allowed them to change one title card in a video, especially one that is inaccurate, especially as it doesn't change the video length, the most important part of making sure these events don't overrun is making sure videos and people speaking don't overrun.

I don't know what the rules are for events. As to my opinions on BL and CIG, those who know me are well acquainted with them. I just figured I'd post it here and let you all come to your own conclusions.

 

[MaxLexandre]

The good old CIG's Marketing stuff. It's nothing new really, when it comes to sales we all know how it goes, they're just awful when it comes to the message.

SC PTU 2.0 H released now, big 20GB Patch this one, 100K new people invited as well.
They seem to be doing optimization to help multi-core CPUs partially used, SLI problems and others, really necessary the whole thing bottlenecks on itself currently for some, but really has new crashes to deal with:

* In the process of resolving performance issues and introducing other client fixes, a few new crashes have been introduced. We are aware of and working to resolve these. This is part of the overall stabilizing process, and we appreciate all of your assistance!

Edit: Okay a "few new crashes" is a understatement, they also locked us inside the spawning point the doors won't open lol, eh, more hotfixes incoming.

 

[1500]

But they haven't gave any date there. And without the FPS issue the PTU was decently stable to a push to live, so it wasn't that off. If they did that on propose i don't see any positive outcome unless they are plain dumb to be unaware that wouldn't boost sales once people figured out no 2.0 yet, has the turn out was them apologizing for messing up, specially on the Livestream earlier today. It is certainly a bad fail for them here, CIG needs to stop predicting releases as a whole and keep it as it has been with the start of 2.0.

But side of that it's really a non-issue over a single Word on the end of that trailer (and nothing new), as it can be mislead for new people to think 2.0 is released but it also doesn't clearly says 2.0 is Live. And even if it was done on purpose, or they didn't cared to do the change, they haven't lied when it said "Playable now with alpha 2.0" (because it is, on PTU), the marketing magic.

Actually they did set a date. Didn't you read Ben's comment? They set a day of the last few days, the supposed reason for the last card in the video, and they failed at it yet again. Also nothing is stopping them from correcting the error on their own youtube channel, or their own site. Instead they keep promoting the wrong information, misleading people into thinking its out.

Yes they have lied, by every definition of the world CIG lied, and they continue to do so.

 

[Cotic]

Of course they set a date, what else does the word 'now' signify. If 'now' is not a date then nothing is a date. Trying to claim otherwise is just weaselly.

Anyhow, not a fan of the marketing machine at CIG. They seem rather lacking in scruples, although that's certainly not uncommon when it comes to marketing. Perhaps people expect a little better because of their roots?

 

[kilvenny]

Scenario

I am a dad buying for my 16+ lads for Xmas presents knowing they like FPS games. I see this ad while trawling the internet looking for presents and think, great this heavily hyped game that I know they don't have is now available. It's multiplayer on line so I buy two licenses with ships. Main Xmas presents sorted. Wife happy.

Xmas day dawns cue, "Dad we cannot access this game - you do know it's limited availabilty. Wife - you paid what for this trash they cannot play! I let you buy one present for them and you ruin their Xmas.

See the problem. Thankfully this dad is watching the detail and has not shelled out.

 

[lysan]

Scenario

I am a dad buying for my 16+ lads for Xmas presents knowing they like FPS games. I see this ad while trawling the internet looking for presents and think, great this heavily hyped game that I know they don't have is now available. It's multiplayer on line so I buy two licenses with ships. Main Xmas presents sorted. Wife happy.

Xmas day dawns cue, "Dad we cannot access this game - you do know it's limited availabilty. Wife - you paid what for this trash they cannot play! I let you buy one present for them and you ruin their Xmas.

See the problem. Thankfully this dad is watching the detail and has not shelled out.

This dad got a refund and are building a new monster ED DCS\IL2\ED PC

 

[Mr.Nowak]

One lesson you can pull from that. Great things take time Especially in game development!

 

[MaxLexandre]

Yes they have lied, by every definition of the world CIG lied, and they continue to do so.

The date wasn't public at all up to the video itself that doesn't directly imply that's it's out publicly, it implies that is playable now, and the truth is it is, just not to everybody. The same thing when said FPS, it is there on it's first iteration but the FPS module isn't released. It's not lies, it's marketing, it's not about what you say, it's about what you do not say (this applies here and goes back to the old story with LTI), it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.

 

[Ozram]

The date wasn't public at all up to the video itself that doesn't directly imply that's it's out publicly, it implies that is playable now, and the truth is it is, just not to everybody. The same thing when said FPS, it is there on it's first iteration but the FPS module isn't released. It's not lies, it's marketing, it's not about what you say, it's about what you do not say (this applies here and goes back to the old story with LTI), it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.

It doesn't look great when they don't retract the add from the front page though, does it?

For those of you who tuned into the Game Awards this evening, you may have already seen Chris and Mark present the new trailer for Star Citizen

Below that quote is some incentive or other to try and entice new players. It really does have the flavour of faux-error to me. Whoopsy, did we mislead you? My bad.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15098-Star-Citizen-Alpha-20-Trailer

 

[MaxLexandre]

It doesn't look great when they don't retract the add from the front page though, does it?

Below that quote is some incentive or other to try and entice new players. It really does have the flavour of faux-error to me. Whoopsy, did we mislead you? My bad.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15098-Star-Citizen-Alpha-20-Trailer

Yup the annoying thing is when there's updates, then it's posted on the forum then they expect everybody to search to that information. We did a "Whoopsy" and the Marketing machine wins again. I mean you're certainly aware this is already something that happens for years, from LTI, to Exclusive/Limited Ship Sales, to release predictions... We can say all the bad things about how CIG does its Marketing, but we can't say it doesn't work. eh.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Yup the annoying thing is when there's updates, then it's posted on the forum then they expect everybody to search to that information. We did a "Whoopsy" and the Marketing machine wins again. I mean you're certainly aware this is already something that happens for years, from LTI, to Exclusive/Limited Ship Sales, to release predictions... We can say all the bad things about how CIG does its Marketing, but we can't say it doesn't work. eh.

So they are rich, indefensible crooks? Fairy nuff

 

[Cotic]

We can say all the bad things about how CIG/EA/Ubisoft/Activision does its marketing, but we can't say it doesn't work. eh.

Houston, we may have a problem.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Houston, we may have a problem.

But is DOES work, millions and millions in a few days prove that. Some do this in more discrete ways while CIG goes "Michael Bay" on it. While it keeps working, it's not going to change.

 

[Cotic]

But is DOES work, millions and millions in a few days prove that. Some do this in more discrete ways while CIG goes "Michael Bay" on it. While it keeps working, it's not going to change.

Right but I thought the whole point of their crowdfunding was to avoid being like other players in the game.
I couldn't care less to be honest, I just thought it sounded a bit duplicitious.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Yup the annoying thing is when there's updates, then it's posted on the forum then they expect everybody to search to that information. We did a "Whoopsy" and the Marketing machine wins again. I mean you're certainly aware this is already something that happens for years, from LTI, to Exclusive/Limited Ship Sales, to release predictions... We can say all the bad things about how CIG does its Marketing, but we can't say it doesn't work. eh.

What that suppose to mean?It works for them not for the backers,It's like you are justifying bank robbers that just rob a bank and killed few ppl. in there and managed to escape with bags full of money successfully....Maybe it's a bad example but the point I want to make is that in cases like this there will be always a consequences......