The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Aleksej]

I agree that their business model is constantly generating funding for them, but I would not say it's working perfectly.

Many backers (I'm one of them) dislike the constant changes that they are making to the roadmap of the game. Things are promised then changed, and I do not think that their promise of open development is what many (not all ) thought it would be.

Personally, I would like more honesty from CIG - good news as well as bad, and then I would respect them more.

Yep, a lot of backers do not like this. But for CIG the system works as long as their needs are satisfied. And I would say that ~$10M they have earned last November/December, as well as $2.7M earned in January is a lot. As long as this funding levels are maintained - I doubt they are going to change anything.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Aleksej - I completely agree. Unfortunately though - I think they'll just continue to push ship sales, make videos, craft coats for procedurally generate fish, generate cool weapons for the coffee machine - but continue to delay releasing meaningful content that solidifies all their "vision" into a real product that people can genuinely call a full game released-to-market.

I don't think it'll ever be "complete" much as Elite is never "complete", but they have been dragging this one out for so long it's unbelievable.

 

[Rolan]

Yep, a lot of backers do not like this. But for CIG the system works as long as their needs are satisfied. And I would say that ~$10M they have earned last November/December, as well as $2.7M earned in January is a lot. As long as this funding levels are maintained - I doubt they are going to change anything.

At some point their system will stop making them so much money, the longer it goes without the real basics of the PU more people will doubt.

 

[swfanatic717]

The game is NOT released yet. And as far as I know nothing has changed regarding UEC, it is still going to be PU currency that you WILL be able to earn by playing the game. Whereas REC is used in AC only.

If this situation continues, will they have any incentive to "release" at all?

So far their business model has allowed them to regularly distribute low-quality software to a large portion of their playerbase in the same way a finished and released game is patched. They freely sell promises of digital goods for untold amounts of income. Once they actually declare their game "released" they'll be under pressure to shut down their main income source as promised, and meet the quality expectations of the public.

If the past 3 years have taught them anything it's that by sticking an "alpha" sticker on work you can't/won't finish you can still monetize it and its associated products. Remove the sticker and suddenly you have standards to adhere to. What is CIG's incentive to actually "release" the PU at any time within the foreseeable future?

Aleksej - I completely agree. Unfortunately though - I think they'll just continue to push ship sales, make videos, craft coats for procedurally generate fish, generate cool weapons for the coffee machine - but continue to delay releasing meaningful content that solidifies all their "vision" into a real product that people can genuinely call a full game released-to-market.

I don't think it'll ever be "complete" much as Elite is never "complete", but they have been dragging this one out for so long it's unbelievable.

The difference is that Elite actually removed the "Alpha" label from their work while CIG is going to hide behind "Pre-Alpha" status until they run out of cash, at which point they'l split the "final product" even further and hawk whatever they can to buy another year or two.

 

[Marak]

Yep, a lot of backers do not like this. But for CIG the system works as long as their needs are satisfied. And I would say that ~$10M they have earned last November/December, as well as $2.7M earned in January is a lot. As long as this funding levels are maintained - I doubt they are going to change anything.

I agree with you - but the bolded bit annoys me. I am increasingly getting the impression that the backers are now more of an annoyance than a resource to tap. Don't get me wrong - I'm not in the demanding refund club as I've only got $40 in this, but if a company had 1/2 mil testers working for them they should at least listen, treat them with respect and share more than flashy spaceship adverts.

 

[bitstorm]

Well Around the Verse is up. In this one they talked about how they modified the editor in order to show something, and they have animators (using motion capture) and artists creating a virtual ship sales floor.

So to recap on confirmed new content for 2.x,
-Ship sales floor to purchase ships
-clothes to purchase.
-shops to sell items,
-shops to sell weapons

https://youtu.be/33ToZW4o9AE

https://youtu.be/33ToZW4o9AE?t=75

"That was Ben adding colour. And now you're going to Ben this up."

Ouch, poor Ben, he mucked up the sales pitch. =(

 

[swfanatic717]

I agree with you - but the bolded bit annoys me. I am increasingly getting the impression that the backers are now more of an annoyance than a resource to tap. Don't get me wrong - I'm not in the demanding refund club as I've only got $40 in this, but if a company had 1/2 mil testers working for them they should at least listen, treat them with respect and share more than flashy spaceship adverts.

Is that what's really happening though? Or is it just "testing" in name only? Why does CIG still have an (albeit smaller) testing team internally when they have a million volunteers? What portion of these million people actually report any information of use? Is letting those million people loose randomly on their code going to produce more useable information compared to following properly structured software testing procedures?

Or is "alpha-tester" simply yet another sticker CIG uses to make backers feel like they're actually doing something useful and productive instead of simply being milked for money?

You dont need to buy UEC to test anything... whatever you(or CIG) wanna call it(UEC or REC) will be earn in the PU or AC with missions, battles, racing...
But yeah sure, lies, misinformation... whatever you need...

You said UEC would only be earned when the game was finished. Surely by then there'd be no need for players to "test" anything?

You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot there.

 

[swfanatic717]

Delays in the game industry are happening all the time. This is not something new to the industry.

Delays aren't new, but delays in excess of 2-3 years (according to the latest PU release estimates) are something of a rarity, and historically projects with that kind of delay don't end well.

EDIT: How do I use auto-merge?

 

[Marak]

Or is "alpha-tester" simply yet another sticker CIG uses to make backers feel like they're actually doing something useful and productive instead of simply being milked for money?

.

I think this^^

EDIT: How do I use auto-merge?

Auto-merge is supposed to.. well, auto merge. You don't do it - it does it to you

But it didn't in this case

 

[Aleksej]

To be clear - as a backer/customer I am utterly annoyed by this situation, however, I admire how they created this business model that keeps working for them.

Delays aren't new, but delays in excess of 2-3 years (according to the latest PU release estimates) are something of a rarity, and historically projects with that kind of delay don't end well.

EDIT: How do I use auto-merge?

Well, I'd say it did not seem possible for me that they were able to release SC in 2014, especially as they had to rework the CryEngine to meet their needs. Normally, it takes about 5 years to develop a game so 2012 + 5 = 2017.

 

[Backer42]

And what facts are at your hand that prove that there are changes in UEC model?

The state of the SC client since 2014 speaks for itself. This thing is a fact. The developer's priorities are a fact, too. Whatever "will be" in a parallel dimension, where CIG releases a finished working game, is pure speculation. I don't believe in those statements from CIG, because often enough they turned out as blatant lies.

When the "social module" got released last year, it was pretty clear to me that it is not "planetside where your land your ship" (that doesn't work half a year later), but it is a virtual shopping area, where you spend additional real money and show your JPEGs to other players. They're also developing the "mile high club" were backers can present themselves after paying the $1000 entry fee.

Anything near a real video game still isn't there. It's Second Life inside CryEngine 3.

 

[swfanatic717]

To be clear - as a backer/customer I am utterly annoyed by this situation, however, I admire how they created this business model that keeps working for them.

Oh yeah, totally agreed there. Star Citizen's business model is going to be studied for years to come whether the project itself succeeds or fails. It's an exercise in the nature of crowdfunding, to the extent where it's questionable whether what they're doing can even be called "crowdfunding" anymore. It's also a good example of how far you can actually get in the gaming industry from trading reputation, promises, goodwill and ethics for profit.

People called EA evil for their monetization methods. They called Ubisoft evil for their broken software shenanigans. They called Square Enix evil for coming up with "Augment Your Preorder". But not only has Chris Roberts brought all three back, he's taken them to a whole new level, and people are applauding him for it.

 

[Rolan]

You said UEC would only be earned when the game was finished. Surely by then there'd be no need for players to "test" anything?

You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot there.

Where did I said that the UEC(or any currency that we use ingame for testing, the name is irrelevant) will only be earned when the game was finished? The PU is the alfa/beta testing when the persistence (Persistent Universe, the clue is in the name ) is in place too(Baby PU, right now). At Least that's what I'm referring to... but sure xD.

 

[Marak]

Well, I'd say it did not seem possible for me that they were able to release SC in 2014, especially as they had to rework the CryEngine to meet their needs. Normally, it takes about 5 years to develop a game so 2012 + 5 = 2017.

My last post on this subject 'cos it ain't gonna go anywhere...

The ONLY person who promised a 2014 release was Chris Roberts. It seems that everyone but the developer of the game knew this was cowpoo, but we all threw in with him. It seems nobody believed his later statements about timescales for release of certain elements as well.

It looks like everybody knows more about timescales for game development than CR, and everybody has been proved right.

 

[swfanatic717]

Where did I said that the UEC(or any currency that we use ingame for testing, the name is irrelevant) will only be earned when the game was finished? The PU is the alfa/beta testing when the persistence (Persistent Universe, the clue is in the name ) is in place. At Least that's what I'm referring to... but sure xD.

You didn't, but as Aleksej (who unlike you actually has the right idea about why people can't earn UEC right now, and won't be able to do so until the PU "officially released", see below) has established, the only time when people can "test" anything they want without using forced to use real money, is when "testing" is no longer required.

As for UEC they CANNOT implement earning UEC in the game now as you also can buy UEC for RL money... If it was UEC that players were earning then everyone would already have lots of UEC on their game balances. At the same time as you can buy UEC for RL money they simply would NOT be able to clear players' accounts because some of the players would have UEC bought for RL money, so this would mean that players would simply lose RL money by buying UEC. So it seems obvious that there was no way to implement UEC earning at this stage.

 

[milligna]

I admire the laughable at first but undoubtedly effective business model they've managed to create, but then again I admire L. Ron Hubbard for turning his gift for gab into a profitable religion. So... moving on!

So how does everyone find the multicrew feature to work? Anybody having fun with the turrets?

 

[Aleksej]

The state of the SC client since 2014 speaks for itself. This thing is a fact. The developer's priorities are a fact, too. Whatever "will be" in a parallel dimension, where CIG releases a finished working game, is pure speculation. I don't believe in those statements from CIG, because often enough they turned out as blatant lies.

When the "social module" got released last year, it was pretty clear to me that it is not "planetside where your land your ship" (that doesn't work half a year later), but it is a virtual shopping area, where you spend additional real money and show your JPEGs to other players. They're also developing the "mile high club" were backers can present themselves after paying the $1000 entry fee.

Anything near a real video game still isn't there. It's Second Life inside CryEngine 3.

And what's wrong with the client?

Actually it is called a million mile high club. Access is granted to those who pledged more than $10000, and this was advertised as a KS reward. So what is wrong with that?

 

[Rolan]

You didn't, but as Aleksej (who unlike you actually has the right idea about why people can't earn UEC right now, and won't be able to do so until the PU "officially released", see below) has established, the only time when people can "test" anything they want without using forced to use real money, is when testing is no longer required.

Put the entire quote:

The fact is that their business model is working perfectly and is constantly generating funding for them.

As for UEC they CANNOT implement earning UEC in the game now as you also can buy UEC for RL money, so REC was the only option that would allow players to test different ships, loadouts etc. If it was UEC that players were earning then everyone would already have lots of UEC on their game balances. At the same time as you can buy UEC for RL money they simply would NOT be able to clear players' accounts because some of the players would have UEC bought for RL money, so this would mean that players would simply lose RL money by buying UEC. So it seems obvious that there was no way to implement UEC earning at this stage. Hence, the only option is to have REC for AC.

There you have your currency for testing.
It doesnt matter if the currency is called UEC vs REC, there will be a currency ingame for testing purposes... don't be silly...

In fact is needed for the whole economy AI of the game to start working.

My last post on this subject 'cos it ain't gonna go anywhere...

The ONLY person who promised a 2014 release was Chris Roberts. It seems that everyone but the developer of the game knew this was cowpoo, but we all threw in with him. It seems nobody believed his later statements about timescales for release of certain elements as well.

It looks like everybody knows more about timescales for game development than CR, and everybody has been proved right.

In his mind, probably he believed when he said it. Dreams too much, at least in terms of working time.

The real problem appeared(with his opinions about dates) back then when the release of the first version of AC if i recall correctly.

 

[Aleksej]

Put the entire quote:


There you have your currency for testing.
It doesnt matter if the currency is called UEC vs REC, there will be a currency ingame for testing purposes... don't be silly...

In fact is needed for the whole economy AI of the game to start working.

And we are quite far away from that yet. They need to create a save game/state system first so that it was possible to save the progress first.

 

[Rolan]

And we are quite far away from that yet. They need to create a save game/state system first so that it was possible to save the progress first.

They better with that, the system should be in implemented already, well, some months ago.