The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[milligna]

No need to talk apocalypse... will the PU have things like economy, cargo, mining, more than 1 system, and persistence this year? Or will it be tiny updates and just ships like the past few months in favor of SQ42 development instead?

So far all the bigger items like shopping they claimed would be in 2.2 and 2.3 aren't in and the biggest system you can claim was added was the GTA-style wanted star tidbit.

 

[MaxLexandre]

They have refuted the claims on 2.X update what X feature will be in, as that changed into what the monthly updates are set to release what's ready, not push the update back until a feature is ready to put on it. When CR was asked how far he plans the PU to be this year, he replied with the ability to already have 1 fleshed out system, persistence obviously, but with the ability to travel to another system already, so this year is set to be a year on PU works to pull off the first finished solar system.



But well, Star Citizen is already collapsing, so we'll never see any of that, it's the end i suppose.

 

[ianw]

Regarding persistence - quite a few of the bugs seem to have been around since the first release so I guess technically - one might say persistence is already in!

 

[Voivod]

So Stellaris is almost (41days) upon us.
Yet another game that started development after SC started and released a lot sooner than when SC releases.
Yes I know, different scopes/fidelity/immersarination/etc etc... but here we are, still waiting for absolute basic implementations of the vast majority of features the game is supposed to offer.

No please, keep on telling us that SC development is moving at a good pace.

:/

 

[MaxLexandre]

Oh talking about Persistence, just said on yesterday's RTV "We're testing the first builds of persistence, now."

Little said though, we'll have to wait to Jake Ross on the PU team to report that, or the monthly report.


Sad thing Star Citizen's development is about to collapse huh?
#Doomsday

 

[Tuub t Tute]

One of the ringside observations is that CiG MUST get SQ42 out this year in time for Xmas Sales. CR intimated as much on the BBC interview earlier in the year.

In opposition to this, it feels like SC doesn't have a timescale. It will be done when it is done, things will get implemented and tested and it will not be rushed.

The confusion for me as an outsider is I had believed SC to be the Jewel in the Crown and SQ42 to be the offshoot, not the other way around.

 

[MaxLexandre]

The confusion for me as an outsider is I had believed SC to be the Jewel in the Crown and SQ42 to be the offshoot, not the other way around.

I think it's really like that, SC is what is where the real ambition and the scope is, SQ42 doesn't overlap that. But truth is, SC will be pulled off slowly, they really have no other way if they want to do it right. With Erin leading on UK, and on the 10ftc when he describes his relationship with what Chris wants, and what can be done shows his experience on being realistic, working on tight time-frames, possibly he can turn that into SQ42 delivered in time.

But by no way Star Citizen, the PU, can be slowed down now, their biggest income of funding, of immediate funding, comes from it and depends on its progress.

 

[Monk]

Dereks problem is, no one cares about his games or whatever he does. But he found out if he talks bad stuff about star citizen he gets attention. What he misses is that he just get played out by the goons which are eliven/suborn him to make more internet drama. If he would stop writing bad stuff on sc no one would remember him in a few months.

Honestly, since the whole escapist article, CR tirade and legal threats, I'd forgotten about DS until he was brought up in this thread again.

 

[Skizomeuh]

...shows his experience on being realistic, working on tight time-frames, possibly he can turn that into SQ42 delivered in time...

Funny how a business model aimed at alleviate (to some extents) time pressure end in Erin being forced to work on tight-frames to save his brother's asp (again?) because of mismanagment and overpromises.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Funny how a business model aimed at alleviate (to some extents) time pressure end in Erin being forced to work on tight-frames to save his brother's asp (again?) because of mismanagment and overpromises.

He is the lead of production, his job is exactly deal with what goes from "dreaming big" to reality, he has to keep it real. It's CR's vision that needs to be translated into the game.

Remember Erin took this job and responsibility, a bit more than 6 months ago, when he took over the global production of SC. It's SQ42 however, that shows a more concrete time-frame to be delivered.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Remember Erin took this job and responsibility, a bit more than 6 months ago, when he took over the global production of SC. Now SQ42 shows it has a time-frame to be delivered.

QED.

/5chars

 

[Monk]

Yeah that's what a "re-shoot" is. It means going back to the capture stage after you thought you had it all. Whether you re-shoot existing stuff (unlikely) or shoot new scenes (more likely) doesn't matter, both are re-shoots. Yes re-shoots do happen, but they're not usually associated with well-planned productions. A re-shoot doesn't mean that the resulting movie *has* to suck, but they are something to be wary of. Most productions don't require them, and good planning means you don't have to go down that road.

Seems that those with knowledge of both industries involved in making SQ42, film and software development, have a recurring theme when it comes to planning/project management at CIG.

This is worrisome, though not fatal. There is still time yet to reel in the over-ambition and focus, and I think they have made some strides towards effective management.

It is just a matter of whether they have a good internal development plan (and skilled PMs who can adapt to obstacles) that can be honestly executed in time for SQ42 for End of Year.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Oh he thought he was dead, he wasn't xD

[video=youtube;95bKuYm5QhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bKuYm5QhI[/video]

This is worrisome, though not fatal. There is still time yet to reel in the over-ambition and focus, and I think they have made some strides towards effective management.

You kinda made it feel like the doomsday is already happening, like DS states.... Also over-ambition on SQ42? Where?

 

[dayrth]

You made it feel like the doomsday is already happening...

How do you figure that? I thought on balance, Monk was being very positive.

This is worrisome, though not fatal. - A bit negative perhaps but a long way from saying it's doomed.

There is still time yet to reel in the over-ambition and focus, - A bit positive.

and I think they have made some strides towards effective management. - Very positive for the future.

 

[Monk]

Oh he thought he was dead, he wasn't xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bKuYm5QhI



You kinda made it feel like the doomsday is already happening, like DS states.... Also over-ambition on SQ42? Where?

How does worrisome, though not fatal translate into talking about doomsday. Flair for the dramatic, much?

I'm worried about the project. I want to see it finished. I have seen many software projects fail, have even been right in the middle of a couple of them. These are the warning signs, that's all. Many can recover, hence why, it is not fatal.

I see the goals of SC directly affecting SQ42 since they would, conceivably, work off of the same game engine and should feature most of the activities found in SC, that aren't purely MMO related. It becomes, difficult, however, to parse out what is too much to handle as every feature seems over the top. Which is good on paper, and all things I want as a player, but I know in my heart, something has to give if they are to hit targets.

I want CIG to prove my fears are silly. To do that, I need to see more of the game on display.

 

[MaxLexandre]

How does worrisome, though not fatal translate into talking about doomsday. Flair for the dramatic, much?

I'm worried about the project. I want to see it finished. I have seen many software projects fail, have even been right in the middle of a couple of them. These are the warning signs, that's all. Many can recover, hence why, it is not fatal.

I see the goals of SC directly affecting SQ42 since they would, conceivably, work off of the same game engine and should feature most of the activities found in SC, that aren't purely MMO related. It becomes, difficult, however, to parse out what is too much to handle as every feature seems over the top. Which is good on paper, and all things I want as a player, but I know in my heart, something has to give if they are to hit targets.

I want CIG to prove my fears are silly. To do that, I need to see more of the game on display.

Oh i wasn't talking about the worrisome not fatal part, yet the "there's still time", like something was already happening and they need to change something in order to "save" Star Citizen. At least that's how it did hit me.

SQ42 on over-ambition is something i don't see, it's something they always kept as a normal singleplayer campaign, not promising that the features set to the PU, are set to be on SQ42, as recently it was clarified and shown that insider look of what the game is meant to be, is way locked into something, un-affected by the features promised on the MMO. That's why, seeing what they already said, to not be on SQ42, planetary landings, PG Planets, the lock to 1 solar system, i see it way easier to pull off, as it's quite simpler than what i would have imagined, much more locked to what it was meant to be, since the Kickstarter.

Overall i'd say, that's the changes seen since Erin Roberts took a leadership position on the project as a whole, not long after we saw things happen, specially on delivery.

But it's been months still since this happened, i think we should give it more time to see Erin's real impact on Star Citizen as a whole, and its future.

 

[Monk]

Oh I see, in dev/PM speak around where I am, "there's still time" means that you haven't hit a Point of No Return. That place between making significant code changes that are nearly irreversible and a looming hard dead line. (hitting a PONR usually coincides with setting your big "better not freaking move this" deadline)

Prior to that, it is simple enough to push back deadlines as your reasons are usually small and valid. After PONR, making significant shifts in the project come with the dreaded word, "rewrite." Which is followed up by heavy criticism of people's abilities and overall project success. I want to see them avoid that and see Erin Roberts involvement as a good move to handle it.

Now, when I read some of these updates and I see things like rewrite, I becomes skeptical. Some things from proof of concept invariably need to be rewritten. This is life. However, it is something you want to keep tightly in check as you approach your release date (assuming 8 months from now).

 

[MaxLexandre]

I want to see them avoid that and see Erin Roberts involvement as a good move to handle it.

Now, when I read some of these updates and I see things like rewrite, I becomes skeptical. Some things from proof of concept invariably need to be rewritten. This is life. However, it is something you want to keep tightly in check as you approach your release date (assuming 8 months from now).

We also hear rewrite on things they are now being taken on, some were place-holders, others experiments, others mistakes, others were just Cryengine defaults, like Persistence that is going as we speak, required them to rewrite parts of the engine systems, to let it happen, this is something they are taking on, as they go, they started working on Persistence, they started doing engine changes and necessary rewrites to accommodate it, would that mean they didn't knew they would have to do that rewrite when they got to develop the backend for Persistence?

On Erin Roberts, the usually mainstream critic upon SC's development, was always hitting the production of the game, what always hinted that the Vision and features CR's wanted to have, were not translating well into the production of the game. When he took the leadership of this area, i think Erin has the ability to get it right and be able to translate what CR wants and the designs, into something realistic for the production pipeline. I just think as the time he took on the position wasn't really that long ago, that it will take some time until we see, or not see, the fruits of his leadership of the game's production.

 

[Backer42]

Dereks problem is, no one cares about his games or whatever he does.

CIG cares. That is why they refunded him without consent as an original backer after the guy made an irrelevant entry on his unknown blog. Like described in the supposed "leak" on mmorpg.com, CIG monitors the net and takes actions against any appearing dissent. This is what cults and sects usually do.

That action backfired for CIG with employees supposedly contacting him and that leading up to the Escapist articles. Chris Roberts published "answer letter" made him publicly known to all backers, including me. And the lawsuit threating letter by Ortwin made the Escapist articles known to me.

Their actions, not his actions - a classic example of the Streisand effect, where damage control leads to additional exposure.

Since this incident every critical Internet discussion on Star Citizen is quickly derailed into "What about Line of Defense?" The same pattern was seen on mmorpg.com last week, before that thread was closed.

 

[Backer42]

No need to talk apocalypse... will the PU have things like economy, cargo, mining, more than 1 system, and persistence this year? Or will it be tiny updates and just ships like the past few months in favor of SQ42 development instead?

In my view CIG is now all-in on SQ42 (the movie) and SC (the "'verse") is delayed indefinitely.

It should be mentioned, that most backers brought in (after the initial campaign) didn't really pay for or wanted that movie, but pledged for the "persistent universe". Otherwise it makes no sense, to amass huge P2W ship fleets, if you just want to watch a CGI movie made by the director of "Wing Commander (1999)".

Personally as previous original backer I subscribed for a mod-able mission-based singleplayer game with private multiplayer servers, made by Eric "Wingman" Peterson, Rob Irving and other veterans. When I realized it's going to be an uncanny valley Gary Oldman acting a script by Chris Roberts instead, I immediately bailed out.