The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[milligna]

I agree, more journalists should take anything he says with a grain of salt and add "allegedly" to any statement he makes along with thorough documentation of all his blown estimates, ignored deadlines, and fits of petulance over being asked what happened to Star Marine. It would improve coverage of Star Citizen enormously if his checkered history were brought up at every opportunity.

I'm still waiting for you to point out where journalists did anything but dutifully report what he said without salt or warnings about his lack of credibility when it comes to project management or scheduling. You implied it was their fault rather than CR once again talking a big game with nothing to back it up.

 

[MaxLexandre]

I'm still waiting for you to point out where journalists did anything but dutifully report what he said without salt or warnings about his lack of credibility when it comes to project management or scheduling. You implied it was their fault rather than CR once again talking a big game with nothing to back it up.

It's not about who's fault it is, it's simply as your first sentence, the media does not has the grain of salt when it comes to release estimates of CR that the Backers do have and are more aware of. Hear by, it got reported like that.

At least that already got made clear, no need for speculations, who is interested should check upon Foundry42 Germany studio reports and watch for VR updates when they get to it.

 

[1500]

Exactly, when CR says "i expect it to...", you know it's taken with a grain of salt because we know what happens when he estimates when will stuff happen, he haven't guaranteed it would be worked on for certain early this year.

Hey we agree on something. I also don't think you can trust a word CR says.

 

[Stigbob]

Nobody forced backers to pledge, like all the adult conscious choices we do in life we have to learn to live with the consequences.
Funding Kickstarters is a gamble, if one can't deal with the vicissitudes of gambling one should stay away from it, if one can't help it one should get help!
I'm joking (mostly) It's just a video-game right? Right? [big grin]

I think the better analogy would be Apple Pie with Hot Fudge, whipped cream and strawberries chillin' on top

I disagree, SC is one of the most heavily marketed games ever. It's not the backers fault they believed what they were told.

Let the buyer beware is a sensible approach, and should be applied to all products. Standard marketing techniques such as trailers, press releases, salesmen, reviews (in paid publications) and paid employee's posing as customers should all be regarded as biased information sources.

However when the standard marketing exaggeration becomes deliberate snake oil selling it's a different kettle of fish altogether. In that instance it's definitely the seller who needs to beware.

I don't know if SC is the software equivalent of snake oil, only time will tell.

I'm not joking at all.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Hmmm

• and paid employee's posing as customers should all be regarded as biased information sources.​

Tell me more

 

[milligna]

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jan/26/fake-reviews-plague-consumer-websites

And some comprehensive links here for "reputation management" companies:
https://www.cs.uic.edu/~liub/FBS/fake-reviews.html

Or were you really not asking for more, being disingenuous and were just baiting him hoping he was somehow personally attacking you?

 

[MaxLexandre]

That's for reviews, we all know these happen. They can't happen with SC because well, SC is not released and by rule, the serious reviewers will only review the final product.

Was talking about the one about employee's posing as customers, because i've kinda been facing those accusations on this thread, and usually one of the weapons used against backers around the web. The equivalent of "derek smart alt account" i'd say.

 

[Jezzah]

I disagree, SC is one of the most heavily marketed games ever. It's not the backers fault they believed what they were told.

Let the buyer beware is a sensible approach, and should be applied to all products. Standard marketing techniques such as trailers, press releases, salesmen, reviews (in paid publications) and paid employee's posing as customers should all be regarded as biased information sources.

However when the standard marketing exaggeration becomes deliberate snake oil selling it's a different kettle of fish altogether. In that instance it's definitely the seller who needs to beware.

I don't know if SC is the software equivalent of snake oil, only time will tell.

I'm not joking at all.

Have to agree here. I'm not joking at all either. I pledged at the 6 million point and that was over 100 million dollars ago with very little to show for it now. I'm not saying it's vapour ware or anything but I DO have to question the management and competence at this point. Stupid rewriting and rebuilding of everything bar the cat litter tray.

 

[milligna]

That's for reviews, we all know these happen. They can't happen with SC because well, SC is not released and by rule, the serious reviewers will only review the final product.

Was talking about the one about employee's posing as customers, because i've kinda been facing those accusations on this thread, and usually one of the weapons used against backers around the web. The equivalent of "derek smart alt account" i'd say.

Huh? Of course CIG can hire reputation management companies to help out, its not just for Amazon reviews. Its for comments sections, reddit, social media in general. Trying to twist his statement into a personal attack on you is a bit silly. He's just talking about marketing and how it's not exactly trustworthy.

It isn't! Let the buyer beware is timeless advice for a reason!

 

[MaxLexandre]

Have to agree here. I'm not joking at all either. I pledged at the 6 million point and that was over 100 million dollars ago with very little to show for it now. I'm not saying it's vapour ware or anything but I DO have to question the management and competence at this point. Stupid rewriting and rebuilding of everything bar the cat litter tray.

What only shows independent of development woes, they are willing to go into rewrites and extra development efforts to try get it right.

They could also just fit with something mediocre and call it done, like that would be the logical thing to do if they wanted fast-money and under-deliver from the first place.

 

[milligna]

What only shows independent of development woes, they are willing to go into rewrites and extra development efforts to try get it right.

Not really. It shows they get it wrong repeatedly and don't plan or schedule things properly -- necessitating rewrites, waste, overhauls, indefinite delays, and Illfonics. This is what happens when you go through senior producers like tissue paper.

They could also just fit with something mediocre and call it done, like that would be the logical thing to do if they wanted fast-money and under-deliver from the first place.

No, they could do both. Take forever, deliver something mediocre. Logic doesn't really have much of a place in the wonderful world of Croberts.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Huh? Of course CIG can hire reputation management companies to help out, its not just for Amazon reviews. Its for comments sections, reddit, social media in general. Trying to twist his statement into a personal attack on you is a bit silly. He's just talking about marketing and how it's not exactly trustworthy.

Huh? No no.. it just hit me and reminded me of some situations i've been through here, when that argument was used against specific persons.

Not really. It shows they get it wrong repeatedly and don't plan or schedule things properly, necessitating rewrites, waste, overhauls, indefinite delays, and Illfonics.

That's why i said development woes. It still doesn't show the "snake oil" because they do are willing and keep putting money and effort to get it right, and that is the point.

Like i said, if it was only for the money, and they already have tons, they could just stop focusing on rewriting and pulling off more ambitious tech and fit with something mediocre to call it done. Because several things they're rewriting do work, they just don't work as well as it's expect-able.

 

[ianw]

You know how they said they'd make a $100 million dollar game if they got $100 million?

Seeing as we're now at almost $112 million do we know what extra we're getting for the extra 12 million?

 

[MaxLexandre]

You know how they said they'd make a $100 million dollar game if they got $100 million?

Seeing as we're now at almost $112 million do we know what extra we're getting for the extra 12 million?

It would be fun if it worked like that. But with the delays the game faced, extra money is not being put into "more game", it is being put into cover something that is set to be a longer development than expected = bigger necessary budget.

On this case, it does show it is also being put into increase company head-counts, has since the "SC's apolycapse" drama, the company has grown by ~+80 People.

 

[Stigbob]

Hmmm



Tell me more

Max you made a big deal about adding me to your ignore list just do it already, anyway talking of highly inaccurate information have an example :

I got a telesales call last week from an individual who claimed not to be making a telesales call. They said they were just a customer who wanted to pass on how very much they liked the company they were phoning about. They repeatedly denied being a telesales employee.

I asked who was paying the phone-bill and if they were being paid to call me, they eventually said the company was paying for both. I got the companies name and after telling them I would be reporting them for breaching offcom guidelines re the telephone preference service (UK opt in service that prohibits unsolicited telesales) reported them.

Offcom confirmed they were already aware of this "sales technique" and added my complaint to the file against the company.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jan/26/fake-reviews-plague-consumer-websites

And some comprehensive links here for "reputation management" companies:
https://www.cs.uic.edu/~liub/FBS/fake-reviews.html

Or were you really not asking for more, being disingenuous and were just baiting him hoping he was somehow personally attacking you?

Thanks for the examples, have rep.

That's for reviews, we all know these happen. They can't happen with SC because well, SC is not released and by rule, the serious reviewers will only review the final product.

Was talking about the one about employee's posing as customers, because i've kinda been facing those accusations on this thread, and usually one of the weapons used against backers around the web. The equivalent of "derek smart alt account" i'd say.

It's not always about you Max, or Derek Smart for that matter.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Oh the ignore list does work, unfortunately this forum does show quotes, independent of it. It kinda defeats the purpose of the function unfortunately.

 

[ianw]

It would be fun if it worked like that. But with the delays the game faced, extra money is not being put into "more game", it is being put into cover something that is set to be a longer development than expected = bigger necessary budget.

On this case, it does show it is also being put into increase company head-counts, has since the "SC's apolycapse" drama, the company has grown by ~+80 People.

Well I'm pretty sure CR said something like "If you give me a $100 million I'll make you a hundred million game".

Perhaps that's not what he meant? Or maybe it only applied to $100 million?

It's hard to tell really.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Well I'm pretty sure CR said something like "If you give me a $100 million I'll make you a hundred million game".

Perhaps that's not what he meant? Or maybe it only applied to $100 million?

It's hard to tell really.

Being most of a game's budget, to keep the high numbers of employees.... I'd say he is making the 100 million game by having several development studios consuming a budget of 100 million.

 

[ianw]

Being most of a game's budget, to keep the high numbers of employees.... I'd say he is making the 100 million game by having several development studios consuming a budget of 100 million.

Yes - I thought you might.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Yes - I thought you might.

Well, legally, he can even do anything he wants with that money, as it's not assigned to any stretch goal or anything, he could even buy a space unicorn and travel to Mars with it. As long he delivers what he promised to the backers.