The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Asp Explorer]

We should have a competition, what motivational things do you expect Chris Roberts to be shouting at the SQ42 team?.

How about that one where he famously exclaims "This Is Bulls...."

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Just like a variable isn't a bug in C++, but referencing the wrong variable in a program built on C++ IS a bug.

GIGO - no matter what language you are programming in.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

And how got the aion people get their instances and presistence to work with the cryengine?

He is not going to answer this. Too busy drowning the thread in or should I say DS again.

Are there bugs coming up in unexpected places? That is certainly something that will happen, but only a complete fool would take it as proof that the game is not going to be released.

 

[MarktJones]

I think it might be a lot of conversations like this:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;_LC0JjvAJt8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LC0JjvAJt8[/video]

(This is a joke, don't hate me Star Citizen fans!)

 

[Backer42]

If they are skipping E3, there will be no S42 release this year. I wonder when he'll get around to informing the fanbase... December?

Like I predicted in this thread.

 

[BOT #00001]

GIGO - no matter what language you are programming in.

Absolutely. That's the nature of programming.

 

[Stigbob]

I've spoken to one of my people who is a leading expert in "the programming".

He assures me that each fishtank has it's own instance and each fish it's own fizziks grid in which the space ocean can be on or off.

TLDR: Your fears are unfounded!

Thanks very much for the TLDR all this technical gubbins goes right over my head, until generic SC supporter#87 put me right earlier I foolishly believed that you could turn your spaceship faster by utilizing the controls to perform the maneuver more rapidly.

 

[ianw]

He is not going to answer this. Too busy drowning the thread in or should I say DS again.

Are there bugs coming up in unexpected places? That is certainly something that will happen, but only a complete fool would take it as proof that the game is not going to be released.

The problem is - like everything else with CIG - everything gets re-defined according to whatever the prevailing narrative requires at the time.

We don't know what "released" means in the context of Star Citizen at this point - there isn't even any agreement on "alpha" let alone whatever the minimum viable thing they can get away with is defined as.

So at this point we have no intel on the "release" as we have no idea what it is.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

Thanks very much for the TLDR all this technical gubbins goes right over my head, until generic SC supporter#87 put me right earlier I foolishly believed that you could turn your spaceship faster by utilizing the controls to perform the maneuver more rapidly.

You are welcome.

I was just correcting your misconception on how maneuvering in E : D actually works.

 

[lysan]

Clawhammer - I don't mean to pick you out in particular, this is a generic You and not You personally, but have you ever worked on a real product for release?

It could be paint, software, dangleberry combs, anything.

You actually made me look that one up LMAO!

 

[Stigbob]

You are welcome.

I was just correcting your misconception on how maneuvering in E : D actually works.

You were incorrectly applying SC backer inaccurate imaginary theorycrafting to a superior product known as the BDSSED.

 

[dsmart]

How difficult is for you to admit that this was such an obvious CIG mistake,and it was very sad one or funny I guess really depend how are you look at it...The worst thing it's not the actual knowledge about the CE and what this guys didn't know back then...the problem is that they need 3 DAYS&John Pritchett to figure this out....We are in 2016(back then maybe 2013) age where we can all communicate with each other instantly(like me&you) all over the world + GOOGLE the things... and NO ONE can figure this simple and obvious task for 72h......you see that's the problem....

...and they've had a entire studio (F42-GER) since Aug 2014. And never discovered the problem.

 

[FerinexuS]

I've worked with lots of engines and are familiar with all the leading ones. The water level setting in CryEngine is not a bug. It's a feature of the engine being that it's for fps games. If you're making a space game, it's up to you to ensure that you disable it. Just like any game engine that has features that you either i) want to or don't want to use ii) setup according to the game you're building

Engines don't build the game for you.

Which brings me to the hilarity: In Aug 2014, CIG setup F42-GER staffed with some former CryTek engineers. Yet, this bug was in Star Citizen. The whole time.

I'm pretty sure that the German office only opened last year, not that it really matters anyway.

Speaking of engines, and since you claim to be a game developer what engine options were there in 2011/12 besides CryEngine?
Would they work from the box or would they also need major refactoring to accommodate the game's needs?

I'm asking because sometimes it seems easy to dismiss CryEngine and think it's only a fps engine when it's been used for all kind of game genres now.

 

[dsmart]

And how got the aion people get their instances and presistence to work with the cryengine?

Let me quote what I wrote again. And highlight a key element of that statement.

Originally Posted by dsmartYes, that's pretty much it for their "persistence" atm. Remember that when PU 2.0 was launched back in Dec 2015, that was touted as "persistence" as well. Of course there was nothing persistent about it.


And as for the "connecting instances" part, they can't do it with that engine architecture. I actually touched on that subject in the "Death by a thousand cuts" section of my Condition Red blog.

And it's NOT about instances - that works of course. It's about inter-instance communication and connectivity as that's the ONLY way to build an MMO from instances in the manner that they have described the game.

 

[Jacknife]

Funny thing: I played in both ED and SC last night, and in SC's PUT, the Crusader region reminded me quite a bit of the state that ED was in during its alpha stage. Stuff coming on line in stages, tests of persistence, tests of the economy, tests of mission systems, and the like. Granted, it was smaller-scale, because of the person-scale avatar in place of the ship-scale avatar, but then again, Privateer worked on a smaller scale than First Encounters (anyone remember grinding in the Troy system to save up enough money to buy your first jump drive?).

Okay, it's obviously a work in progress, but I, for one, could see the work and the progress.

Then I came here and saw a whole bunch of people who seemed dedicated to nothing more than tearing down other people's work. Why? It's not like the failure of one project will increase the chances of another project's success in the slightest. The genre isn't a zero-sum game.

And, frankly, everyone who's in here causing trouble just for the sake of causing trouble? You all should be ashamed of yourselves. David Braben himself said that competition was good for the genre; he backed the SC project, he went public with his support and praise for CIG's efforts, and he went on record saying that this kind of destructive crap is wrong.

I don't know whether to fly an Aurora or a Python first tonight, but I'm pretty sure I'll be flying both before I go to sleep. And I'm pretty sure I'll have a good time with both of them.

Who's with me?

 

[milligna]

I'm asking because sometimes it seems easy to dismiss CryEngine and think it's only a fps engine when it's been used for all kind of game genres now.

Yeah, must be why all those space sims are being made in CryEngine these days.

the Crusader region reminded me quite a bit of the state that ED was in during its alpha stage.

What an insulting thing to say about Frontier! Even in Alpha the flight model was rock solid right off the bat. This is where great project management really pays off, they nailed the basics and built sensibly outwards from it. The kernel of ED was there and you could see where it could go. They didn't spend years subcontracting out major parts of the game like the FPS component to amateurs in some delusional scheme all the branches would cohere at the end and form Voltron.

Star Citizen? I have no idea how this broken tech demo is going to magically blossom into the dreamy space butterfly Roberts has been selling for almost half a decade. I can't imagine 1/20th of those features jammed into a janky CryEngine mod. Not shipping a game since the 90s really hasn't helped Roberts' little game development reunion tour.

 

[lysan]

You were incorrectly applying SC backer inaccurate imaginary theorycrafting to a superior product known as the BDSSED.

That is an excellent Abbreviation, most fitting I might add.
So when is SQ42 coming out, must be right on the door step ready for release no? I read on the RSI forums that they still expect it in Q4 2016.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

Imperial Cutter owner here (A-rated).

I certainly do understand the limitations of E : D flight mechanics, but I guess you are more used to playing the forums then the actual game. Also I am backer of BOTH Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen and I backed Elite Dangerous before pledging anything to Star Citizen. But I would rather have a honest discussions with true fans of Elite Dangerous then a poser with little to no knowledge about both games.

 

[dsmart]

I well understand what an engine feature is also. So you can assume we're on the same page. When they got this supposed problem they didn't say : "oh, let's put this in the feature tracker so we can go in later and disable the feature that's causing problems".
Instead it was something like "oh, let's put this in the bug tracker and spend 3 days figuring out what's wrong"
It just happened to be an unintendedly enabled feature. It might as well have been a thread lock that took the same amount of days to fix.

And ofcourse now it's clear that it's a matter of perspective. I choose to have the perspective of a developer. And as a developer, if I had that problem, I'd have to be pretty drunk to call my problem a 'feature'.

I can't lie - a part of me thinks your negative opinion of the project gives you the other perspective, under which it may as well be called a feature.

If you wish to engage me in any form of discussion, you should leave any/all personal attributes out of it or you will be blocked. I simply have no interest in people who want to attack me, rather than debate the merits - and follies - of their statements.

That said, you're still wrong - and missing the point. The point is that someone was saying it was a bug in CE. It's not. It's a bug (and this is not about loling over bugs in a pre-alpha) in SC because they failed to fix the problem. Even though they have CryTek engineers on staff and who - some backers were saying are going to automagically fix all the problems in the engine, flip a switch - and it will all be OK. So there is no merit in deflecting the course of the issue because most of us tier one developers have brains that are wired to spot deflection.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

...and they've had a entire studio (F42-GER) since Aug 2014. And never discovered the problem.

DS I can't be sure if this was time before the "GERMANS"arrived on the "sinking ship" but if it is.....than we have a double trouble....[woah]

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

Let me quote what I wrote again. And highlight a key element of that statement.



And it's NOT about instances - that works of course. It's about inter-instance communication and connectivity as that's the ONLY way to build an MMO from instances in the manner that they have described the game.

That is another logical fallacy. You are using "Appeal to authority" and quoting yourself as such an authority.

I don't think you are very knowledgeable about the Cryengine and unlike too many in this thread I am not willing to accept "because I said so".

Try again.