The Star Citizen Thread v9

[milligna]

Great way to repay the guys who made the original demo that lured in all us suckers, isn't it? As if their silly videos and 200 mil would've been possible without Crytek.

Moronic move from the Crobber that will cost him millions. He's been getting high on his own supply for so long he thought he could treat them like backers and his own employees. Lie, delay, disregard agreements, etc etc.

and a percentage profit of all sales after release of SQ42.

as if Crytek is going to settle for another promise about a phantom game from a liar who screwed them over repeatedly.

 

[metatheurgist]

Most likely.

Best case scenario for both parties would be a settlement, Cryengine on the splash screen (i mean, come on, Cryengine is PART of Lumberyard) and a percentage profit of all sales after release of SQ42.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Moronic move from the Crobber that will cost him millions.

Money is eventually replaceable - but integrity? Once that's gone - it's not ever coming back.

 

[metatheurgist]

Money is eventually replaceable - but integrity? Once that's gone - it's not ever coming back.

Nah, integrity is a quaint idea that expired with the internet. Now everyone loves a comeback story.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Nah, integrity is a quaint idea that expired with the internet. Now everyone loves a comeback story.

(looking at you, Sean Murray / NMS)

 

[milligna]

Cut to 2024 as Croberts unveils a new teaser for his dream game funded by some deranged emir, finally unshackled by the terrible constraints of crowdfunding that hampered his vision. Finally free of entitled backers that had the temerity to think he had to live up to any promises made. New Imperium Productions is proud to present... STARDANCER.

Act now and get in on the ground floor of an exciting new space adventure! Supplies are limited, of course. Honestly.

 

[Asp Explorer]

STARDANCER

Don't give him ideas. He'll wave hands and invent new technologies involving IR body-motion sensors, handheld wireless controllers, and pressure sensitive floor-mounted input mats.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

And to say that the whole world mocked poor Mass Effect Andromeda for its animations...

Yeah, all the backlash Bioware took for ME: A and on the other side you have SC which is considered (by some) the BDSSE. Strange world we live in.

 

[Iron Golem]

I love the fact that one of the stretch goals was for a towel, of all things. Never heard that before.

The excitement level is high apparently.

From what I'm learning about Star Citizen, It sounds like CR knew you were going to need it for your Asp, once he was done with it. [ugh]

A post soon to follow with fresh perspective from someone who's been living under a rock. I just need to catch up on the thread.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

Spoiler

Comments on the motion by the Smart one:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1029687504205688832.html

"Make no mistake, seeing as CIG/RSI are basically INSOLVENT, this is the final death knell. Especially if Crytek files an injunction to prevent them from continuing to operate Star Citizen. The damages alone are going to be catastrophic.
..
that are going to make discovery an absolute nightmare for CIG and expose ALL their secrets. More importantly: WHERE DID ALL THE BACKER MONEY GO!?
..
The execs running CIG are bunch of lowlife scumbags who have SCAMMED gamers out of money. So this is not surprising to me at all.

Thing is, had they not gotten GREEDY and PUBLICLY split SQ42 into a separate product, they wouldn't be on the hook for a DAMAGING infringement suit.
..
See all these companies? This ruling DESTROYS the shell game in one fell swoop.

"

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.msg9579#msg9579

What I also found nice was what the judge had to say about Ortwin F. (annotations in black are from the Judge and in the court document, the red annotation is by DS):

DS makes another good point about the above things said:

Quote:
"Here's what this means.

It puts Ortwin squarely in the case, and makes him a material PART of it. Not just the corporate entity. CryTek are no doubt going to go for it.

As an attorney, accused of acting in BAD FAITH for FINANCIAL GAIN this is disbarment territory right there.

Now you see why CIG wanted to have those parts of the Crytek complaint stricken.

The judge wasn't having any of it because she recognizes the critical problem that the duplicity poses and she couldn't have agreed to this without causing procedural issues down the road.

If I were CryTek, and because I'm a complete >removed bad wording< when it comes to lawsuits, I would immediately file a separate action and stick that pr*ck right in the middle of it.
Then file a bar complaint."
End of quote


DS could also be right with this one here too:
Quote:
"So that's the end of that. Now we wait for Crytek's next move, which I suspect will be the filing for discovery which they tried to do back in March.

With this MtD now out of the way, things are going to start moving really fast now.

If they didn't think they were funding a lawsuit before, I think backers still giving them money should now come to the realization that, aside from them never - ever - getting their money back, nor the games promised, they are now going to be funding a LOSING lawsuit.

If we take the funding chart at face value, and say they are raising about $30M a year, let me assure you, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the sort of damages they are going to be faced with very soon.

And they don't have the money to settle, unless they sell the co.

While I don't believe that Crytek is intending on destroying the company or project, what CIG and Ortwin did to them, is enough bad blood for Crytek to BURN IT ALL to the ground, then write-off their legal expenses against company income.

That's what I would do.

And if there were to be any settlement, knowing that any award is going to create financial liability that exceeds the company net worth, Crytek will basically own ALL OF IT, after CIG/RSI are forced into bankruptcy.

For posterity sake, I am calling it now."

End of quote.


What we see right now could be the real beginning of the end for CIG and I'm curious to see what CrytTeks next move will be.
If Crytek is going for injunctive relief and if that is granted by the court it forces CIG to pull both SC/SQ42 from the shelves and stop all sales regarding both products.
That would be the end for CIG, the next step would be Chapter 7.

 

[sovapid]

What we see right now could be the real beginning of the end for CIG and I'm curious to see what CrytTeks next move will be.
If Crytek is going for injunctive relief and if that is granted by the court it forces CIG to pull both SC/SQ42 from the shelves and stop all sales regarding both products.
That would be the end for CIG, the next step would be Chapter 7.

Not gonna happen, not after eBay v. MercExchange.

And even before that, the injunctive relief would compel CIG to stop using CryTek's intellectual property. Something CIG claims they have already done.

 

[metatheurgist]

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If I remember tone of early engagements between CT and CIG first one wasn't really down for settlement. So I really doubt punitive penalties was a point they even cared about. Biggest stick - copyright breach - stays and if that lands, it is the end of SC/SQ42 saga.

Basically you can't legally screw someone and then say you will keep using their copyright. No contract over copyright I have seen allows you to do that.

Also good point from Derek here

Biggest problem which most are going to miss, is the judge AGREED that both CIG and RSI were on the hook.

As always, love or hate Derek, he is good with digging stuff up. His thread on subject matter is quite insightful.

 

[TenakaFurey]

What we see right now could be the real beginning of the end for CIG and I'm curious to see what CrytTeks next move will be.

Even if that were true, on issues of this particular type, Smart has more often than not been wrong. CIG still has a case to answer, and what little I've seen of the judgement so far confirms my belief that they're guilty enough to settle - but I do think they will settle. If only because their actions to date strongly suggest - IMO - they don't want discovery.

The only question is what CryTek will take to go away. Money, obviously and I would suggest CryTek want the code they are owed.
But one thing they also want to do is protect their brand and their engine, so I think they would want to ensure that neither SC nor S42 and ALL CryEngine code is removed from both games.

CIG - if it is smart - should already be doing this. I think we can assume their assertions that they did so "in two days" to be false - especially since there is videos evidence of them using CE after the switch, and since their roadmap recently listed updating the UI, which (IIRC) is a CE construct relying on CE exclusive software, as a goal. Or at least, I am.

That means either more money from CE, or the code removed. And CE, if it were vindictive, could seek to argue ALL CE based code be removed - even that from lumberyard, as there is no guarantee that it was LY. I do not think CT will want to continue any association with CIG, however. So what I think it will want is confirmation that CE code has been removed, at least via an independent auditor.

CIG, OTOH, wants to keep developing. Getting rid of all CE code is not going to be something it wants to happen. At its most extreme, such a decision would also encompass much of LumberYard and, as I said, I think SC is, or at least was, using a lot of CE even after the switch. The Judge also highlighted 2.4 and if I read her correctly, it seems that CIG may also be forbidden from doing any engine work for two years after the GLA is terminated.

There are pathways to a settlement here, but it all seems to depend on how much money CT want, how much money CIG have, and how badly CT want to sever the relationship vs what CIG have yet to do. CT could, for example, argue that allowing CIG the two years grace period to switch over from CE to a new engine would be a concession on their part, so long as CIG didn't engage in promotional work for the new engine. CT could also ask that even LY code be removed....IIRC, in such a situation, the burden is on the defendent to show it isn't copyright infringing but I could easily be wrong, but the truth is there is a lot of "LY" code that is going to be identical to CE code simply because of its history and CT could argue for its removal.

End of the day, it seems CIG messed up real bad with this. It looks like they tried to wiggle out of the GLA by trying to overly literal (Hey - we didn't break the GLA because LY is a CE derivative!!! Whatchagonnado? Sue us? HaHaHaHa...oh), slapped on a new screen and assumed CT would be fine with it because they didn't have the money to sue. What we know certainly suggest something shady, but whether what they did is legal is beyond my expertise.

It's not all bad news for CIG - they did get a couple of wins...but unless I am misreading the ruling, CIG still have a case to answer, discovery is going to go ahead and the evidence still seems stacked against it.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

Not gonna happen, not after eBay v. MercExchange.

In that case SCOTUS ruled against the automatic grant of injunctive relief by District Courts and not against injunctive relief as a whole. Which means CryTek still can file for injunctive relief, if that will be granted by the court is to be seen.

And even before that, the injunctive relief would compel CIG to stop using CryTek's intellectual property. Something CIG claims they have already done.

You might look after Epic Games vs Silicon Knights, the case was on the same basis as CryTek vs CIG and it effectively bankrupted Silicon Knights.
When CryTek goes for discovery within the next few days, we will see how and if CIG has stopped using CryTeks IP, which I highly doubt.
How much the claims of CIG can be trusted, well, I think we all know that nothing that comes from CIG is to be trusted.

 

[sovapid]

but the truth is there is a lot of "LY" code that is going to be identical to CE code simply because of its history and CT could argue for its removal.

That is not how any of this works. CryTek sold off their rights to Amazon with the creation of LumberYard. CryTek cant argue anything about LumberYard code.

 

[Backer42]

That is not how any of this works. CryTek sold off their rights to Amazon with the creation of LumberYard. CryTek cant argue anything about LumberYard code.

That's not how Copyright works.

 

[sovapid]

In that case SCOTUS ruled against the automatic grant of injunctive relief by District Courts and not against injunctive relief as a whole. Which means CryTek still can file for injunctive relief, if that will be granted by the court is to be seen.

Of course CryTek can file for injunctive relief, but the bar is relatively high to get it. Just like the bar for CIG on a motion to dismiss is/was relatively high.

You might look after Epic Games vs Silicon Knights, the case was on the same basis as CryTek vs CIG and it effectively bankrupted Silicon Knights.
When CryTek goes for discovery within the next few days, we will see how and if CIG has stopped using CryTeks IP, which I highly doubt.
How much the claims of CIG can be trusted, well, I think we all know that nothing that comes from CIG is to be trusted.

Sorta and might prove to be the same if CIG is lying about having switched over to Lumberyard. But Silicon Knights claimed to have created their own engine that was really made up of Unreal code.

CIG has claimed to have switched to an in house engine they came up with from scratch. They switched from CryEngine to Lumberyard.

 

[Barking_Mad]

And now for something completely different. After all the legal talk in this thread today, let's have a look at the fidelity and the vision of Crobbers.
A masterpiece, an epiphany,the salvation of PC gaming, 6 years and 190 million dollars later, he, hallowed be his name, has given us this:

Personally I think 3rd person views (in many/most games) suck. Characters often seem to float on surfaces and never quite interact with the ground perfectly in all situations. Give me first person any time.

That apart these are the kind of things you've got to plan for when making spacelegs if you can switch to the third person. Other games *cough* have low gravity levels on planets and lots of hills and mountains and whilst you can fairly easily rig someone to walk about these situations need the character to look realistic in a variety and combination of situations. I'm pretty sure other games would be significantly better.

 

[Cotic]

To think CIG could probably have avoided all this....