Okay sure but even in your definition subjectivity comes into play again because 5 people with 5 different foci regarding their games can feel different about Star Citizen. Ships handling feels like you are piloting a paper plane is immersion breaking for some....others dont even notice. Some people will be very sensitive when it comes to atmospheric nuances (fog, clutter, NPCs) others just want to fly their ships. It doesnt matter if that makes some people superficial, the important thing is that what is immersive is different from person to person so your statement holds true to individual players but can broadly vary when you observe a group of people
The Star Citizen Thread v9
- Thread starter Yaffle
- Start date
Okay sure but even in your definition subjectivity comes into play again because 5 people with 5 different foci regarding their games can feel different about Star Citizen. Ships handling feels like you are piloting a paper plane is immersion breaking for some....others dont even notice. Some people will be very sensitive when it comes to atmospheric nuances (fog, clutter, NPCs) others just want to fly their ships. It doesnt matter if that makes some people superficial, the important thing is that what is immersive is different from person to person so your statement holds true to individual players but can broadly vary when you observe a group of people
Ok then the fans should avoid claiming it's the most immersive and realistic space sim ever.. And frankly speaking i dont think tuning down the realism too much works for such kind of space game, if you want lasting appeal. I can launch a quick shooter and play 15 minutes and have my fill, but if that's the life span of SC that would be quite disappointing...
Not entirely true. It's attention to details that matter, and most important consistency. You tune the realism for some reasonable, fun point, you better get everything consistently there or outliers will break immersion. There are a bit more factors like audio, i would suggest interviews with Warren Spector about that topic, he's a gold mine.
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So much this.
I am fan of both immersion and space legs. I want ED space legs to happen. However, when I see way SC avatars move and how people move around...it is so jarring and off putting. It just is. And it gets worse with "we will make you do 15 mins of train LOL" additions.
This sounds conflictive at first until you realize that there are more to it then simple sounds. While space is utterly silent (apart from the hollow tubes flying within in as you state and sounds being generated and ending within that tiny habitat - thats why Cash Roberts movie was so funny when the heroes "hide" in the asteroid field "be silent else they hear us!!!"
) its absolutely mindblowingly loud when you switch over to different sensor receptors. i m not arguing your point, I just thought this was worth pointing out in more detail before someone jumps in with "sound doesnt travel in space /duh" ^^
Kind of, indeed…
I'm going to flat out state that the reason you've put 1200+ hours into KSP is because it is not realistic, no matter how modded. You did not have to worry about piping, about transportation, about appropriation politicking, about materials sourcing, about full N-body mechanics, about most of thermodynamics etc. You also have a time compression key, and with merely 1200 hours under your belt, I know that you've used it.
Same with DCS. It is enjoyable because you don't have to worry about spinal compression and prolapses, eye exams, PT, turn-around times, sleep, etc. It would have been decidedly worse if you had to move that poor little pilot guy around more than maybe slowly ambling towards the treeline after you've ejected.
KSP and DCS are exactly what I use as an example of how a good simulation ensures that it steadfastly ignores 95% of what would be realistic, because what you want is that 5% — anything that gets in the way of getting to those few percents breaks your expectations, ruins your immersion, and reminds you that you're just wasting time in front of a computer.
That's pretty much what I'm getting at when I'm saying that saying what immersion is is easy, whereas saying what creates immersion is something very different and pretty much impossible to nail down.
Yeah it's not intuitive, and the space soundscape is quite weird actually. Probably closer to what submariners experience... Also space has a smell, according to everyone who's done an EVA
Have you seen how people sink below the ground level in the train, looking like a pool party ?
One would think that given the immersive, emergent do-anything nature of the SC universe that it would be possible to work around these 15 minute commute times on Loreville by some enterprising players setting up an in-world taxi service for credits, no?
To be nitpicking here, i'll say i have mostly been playing with atmo jets and SSTOs, so not much time compression. Movement in space is easy (once you understand orbital mechanics that is), movement in atmo at high speeds is an endless supply of suprises.. I played with FAR and other realism mods so i did have mach compression effects, skin effects, turbulence and dead spots, and proper thermodynamic effects. It was modded enough so i could recreate a model of a Sukhoi fighter jet and fly it almost like the real one (actually the real one looks unrealistic when doing its stunts haha). Oh and politics and contracts do exist in KSP (when playing in career mode), although yeah it's a space sim, not a political system simulator, that would be off topic.I'm going to flat out state that the reason you've put 1200+ hours into KSP is because it is not realistic, no matter how modded. You did not have to worry about piping, about transportation, about appropriation politicking, about materials sourcing, about full N-body mechanics, about most of thermodynamics etc. You also have a time compression key, and with merely 1200 hours under your belt, I know that you've used it.
That would be off topic too. It's enjoyable as a flight simulator, because it simulates flight in a realistic manner. You even get proper instruments and onboard computer systems, at least those that are not still military secrets. Yeah turn-around times, physical fitness etc. are a thing but there are not the topic of a flight sim, but would be in a "pilot management simulator" if you catch my drift
It's all about staying consistent and on topic. Which is CiG are failing at due to the inane ramblings of their top manager..
I expected to do that exactly, or just zoom around on my hoverbike, but the city itself will be a no fly zone so probably off limits...
Yeah it's not intuitive, and the space soundscape is quite weird actually. Probably closer to what submariners experience... Also space has a smell, according to everyone who's done an EVA
Have you seen how people sink below the ground level in the train, looking like a pool party ?
Any survivors doing an EVA without a helmet taking a sniff of space and coming back to report it? Thats kind of like "how does a cyanide capsule taste like?"
I know what you mean tho. Astronauts coming back into the ship taking off their helmets report that immediately after cycling through the airlock there is a distinct "smell" for a few seconds and it resembles hot metal. The theory is that the ship constantly loses molecules from its structure into the surrounding void so what you smell are all sort of metallic substances used in the construction. I m not sure if this was proven by now but it does sound legit to me.
I tested this out earlier, the chart is broken. I get twice what this table suggest in FPS, it was pretty good.
Ave frames (according to rivatuna) in the 90s. Max frames 160 Min frames 47
They didnt spend too much time on that but they suspect this is the cause yeah. Still surprising for first timers apparently
Yes, and that is ultimately my point: any good simulator will be good because it knows what not to simulate — what to simplify or, more commonly just cut out completely — because it's not part of the core aesthetics and dynamics (to use the Hunicke et al. terminology) that people come to the sim for. An everysim can't do that, so it will ultimately fail to deliver the two most critical parts out of three that make up the design of a game.
…and if you're not going for a sim, that means there's so vastly much more that needs to be cut out to retain that much sought-after immersion — that fulfilment of core expectations on the experience.
Hmm... framerate tracker is incorrect? I wonder what other trackers CIG have that might be incorrect
I wouldn't.
As stated before, this is/was supposed to be testing phase. In a testing phase, the actual values don't matter so much as ensuring the system simply works. You WANT the testers to get access to the ships and try to break stuff. For the prices to be set this high implies anyone competent enough to run a testing phase was simply overruled.
For a first iteration of prices...yes, it is.
"Should have been" - famous words. All of the above, and more, implies something wrong with the core engine. Trouble with something being wrong with the engine of a game is that is can be difficult to fix without breaking something else.
I think a lot of people would like to see ED do "Space Legs"
But, while I would agree Star Citizen is great for showcasing the potential that Space Legs is capable of bringing, I would also argue that (at least to date) Star Citizen is a great example of how NOT to do it. There is far too much emphasis on needless detail (granted, that is an aspect that affects most areas of Star Citizen) and bad gameplay and game design decisions.
Hmm... framerate tracker is incorrect? I wonder what other trackers CIG have that might be incorrect
Interestingly it seems to self update after taking daily client telemetry. Looks like they started everyone with the most pessimistic estimation and are letting their client data push their estimates slowly away from the starting cluster. Quite canny if I'm honest.
