The state of NPCs and their blatant cheating, how to get the trust back?

[Vincent Starson]

So now we've all seen the video evidence that NPC's don't take heat damage, don't need to reload, have infinite capacitor to spam shooting forever, and have infinite chaff.

Can we really trust the word of the devs at this point that the NPCs do not cheat and are limited the same as the players?

Obviously they shouldn't be able to shoot that fast (bugged weapon?), but why don't they run out of ammo, run out of weapons cap to shoot, or overheat like a player would?

Makes you think that they've always had infinite ammo, infinite cap, and infinite heat capacity and the weapon firing that fast was a bug that exposed the cheating AI for what it is.

Maybe NPCs do need that advantage, but FD should admit the NPCs have that advantage or fix it so they don't.

 

[h347h]

So now we've all seen the video evidence that NPC's don't take heat damage, don't need to reload, have infinite capacitor to spam shooting forever, and have infinite chaff.

Can we really trust the word of the devs at this point that the NPCs do not cheat and are limited the same as the players?

Obviously they shouldn't be able to shoot that fast (bugged weapon?), but why don't they run out of ammo, run out of weapons cap to shoot, or overheat like a player would?

Makes you think that they've always had infinite ammo, infinite cap, and infinite heat capacity and the weapon firing that fast was a bug that exposed the cheating AI for what it is.

Maybe NPCs do need that advantage, but FD should admit the NPCs have that advantage or fix it so they don't.

Um they already said way back that NPCs need to bend the rules a bit to give a good game play experience.

 

[Minoo Minou]

I couldn't care less.

 

[avow555]

Yeh the devs need to step up and come clean about what NPC abilities are, particularly with all the new mods they seem to have.

 

[Loskene]

I'm willing to believe the rapid fire railguns and such are a bug that may circumvent the rest of the systems that normally keep it in check, like heat and ammo or what have ye. They could just be completely ignoring or not sending the relevant data to the heat or ammo checks that would normally result in the ship self-destructing or being unable to fire.

We've been told the AI cheat in some regards (infinite MC ammo), and there's no shame in this if there are good gameplay reasons for it, so I would personally take the devs at their word that there's no "secret" cheating going on that would detract from fun gameplay. Only bugs, and always bugs.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Um they already said way back that NPCs need to bend the rules a bit to give a good game play experience.

Which rules do you remember them saying the NPCs bend?

 

[avow555]

Which rules do you remember them saying the NPCs bend?

I'm guessing unlimited ammo/chaff and zero heat issues.

 

[Vincent Starson]

I'm willing to believe the rapid fire railguns and such are a bug that may circumvent the rest of the systems that normally keep it in check, like heat and ammo or what have ye. They could just be completely ignoring or not sending the relevant data to the heat or ammo checks that would normally result in the ship self-destructing or being unable to fire.

We've been told the AI cheat in some regards (infinite MC ammo), and there's no shame in this if there are good gameplay reasons for it, so I would personally take the devs at their word that there's no "secret" cheating going on that would detract from fun gameplay. Only bugs, and always bugs.

I can understand infinite MC ammo, but have they ever said anything about heat or weapons capacitor? They mention pip management varying by rank so that implies they should be limited but apparently they are not right now.

 

[Vincent Starson]

I'm guessing unlimited ammo/chaff and zero heat issues.

Unlimited ammo/chaff sounds okay for gameplay balance reasons, but I take issue with NPCs being heat free.

 

[Mohrgan]

Lol. Trust. People say the craziest things. What we are seeing are bugs. Unintended behavior. Not some conspiracy to, well I can't imagine what, cheat I guess. Let FD gather their data, make a plan, and fix it. Once things are settled your trust will be suddenly restored.

Over reaction is a thing.

 

[Ozzburne]

My main question is why bother giving us a mod that does heat damage when NPC's aren't affected by heat damage? just to encourage griefing?

 

[certhas]

Um they already said way back that NPCs need to bend the rules a bit to give a good game play experience.

a bit bending the rules, A BIT? well, its more like they are bent into a möbius strip
[video=youtube;5dHdsYrmKnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM[/video]

 

[Loskene]

I can understand infinite MC ammo, but have they ever said anything about heat or weapons capacitor? They mention pip management varying by rank so that implies they should be limited but apparently they are not right now.

Yes, NPCs do suffer from heat buildup and capacitor drain. There are new logos on the holograms in 2.1 to let you know when you or your target are having heat problems, so you can see it in action. The current wave of bugs giving certain engineer-enhanced weapons a ridiculously high rate of fire seem to completely circumvent the heat check, however, as the NPCs take no damage after firing a railgun as if it were a beam laser. But, again, that is a bug and not something I would hold against them. So long as they fix it, at least.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Why does it matter what the rules are for an NPC? They are trying to kill me, I'm trying to kill them, they seem really hard right now but that's actually a lot more fun than the other way. You kids today and demanding to know what the rules are for NPCs.... back in my day NPCs were overpowered, and the bosses made us throw our controllers, and there was no internet to hear us cry.

It matters to me, and possibly others, what NPCs are capable of. Knowing your enemy is part of winning the battle.

 

[Loskene]

a bit bending the rules, A BIT? well, its more like they are bent into a möbius strip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM

That's exactly the bug I'm on about. Firing that many plasmas would immediately roast the firer from the inside out, so it seems like the normal heat check is being completely disregarded. It's clearly not intentional.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I'm guessing unlimited ammo/chaff and zero heat issues.

The big problem with zero heat issues is that the 2.1 update introduced inflicting heat as a way to attack other ships. If the AI does not register heat, which they appear not to as evidenced by the gatling PA, and the super gatling rail gun and canon, then the heat weapons are meaningless unless against another player...or against an AI who gets to use them on the player.

 

[Ozzburne]

Lol. Trust. People say the craziest things. What we are seeing are bugs. Unintended behavior. Not some conspiracy to, well I can't imagine what, cheat I guess. Let FD gather their data, make a plan, and fix it. Once things are settled your trust will be suddenly restored.

Over reaction is a thing.

It's less that we think its a conspiracy and more like we are thinking that FDev wasn't truthful when they described the NPC's programming. There's really no reason why heat shouldnt be a thing that NPC's have to deal with. Especially if they plan to conitnue to buff NPC AI and equipment.

It may have been fine before, but now it's clearly just piling on, even without the bugs.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Yes, NPCs do suffer from heat buildup and capacitor drain. There are new logos on the holograms in 2.1 to let you know when you or your target are having heat problems, so you can see it in action. The current wave of bugs giving certain engineer-enhanced weapons a ridiculously high rate of fire seem to completely circumvent the heat check, however, as the NPCs take no damage after firing a railgun as if it were a beam laser. But, again, that is a bug and not something I would hold against them. So long as they fix it, at least.

Oh cool, I haven't noticed those yet. Well that answers one of my main questions about how can we test if they take heat damage.

I do hope its just the bugged weapon and that gets fixed.

If they experience cap drain, how can they shoot that many plasmas in such a short amount of time? Shooting a plasma drains a significant amount of cap. Their other weapons are still firing while shooting the bugged weapon, seems like they don't use cap to me or the weapon is seriously bugged.

 

[Mohrgan]

It matters to me, and possibly others, what NPCs are capable of. Knowing your enemy is part of winning the battle.

You gain this knowledge through observation. When they aren't bugged, NPC's don't cheat. There is no reason for FD to make a pact with us concerning NPC behavior. Some mystery is necessary, or at least desirable.

 

[KG_Jedi]

Eh... I think that they don't cheat, and that plasma multicannon was actually a bug...