The reason was not the higher workload on the admins, but the abuse of that exception by griefers. They'd intentionally wait until their victim picked a side then picked the opposing one.
The story of my first open player kill
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Which caused more workload for the admins. But yup, you're right that the griefers spoiled it.
For several years now I have enjoyed tinkering with loadouts and engineering, and it is still one of the main attractions for me.
However: even just the difference between E-rated and A-rated modules is extreme - if you then add engineering to the mix it just gets ridiculous - it adds +70% or more.
Just think how the game could have been if engineering added say +15% max??
If Frontier were to develop a Elite: dangerous 2 they would probably congratulate themelves on how great engineering was last time and do it all again ..
Anyway, back to the OP: nice to see people thinking about the consequences of their actions on other people, even when that other person was being naive at best lol.
Why does nobody seem to acknowledge power-creep has become a major thing?
Yes power creep is a thing and I think it is a normal thing just like in real life. Think about how far real life technology has come in the last 7 years since ED was first launched? A top of the line GPU from 2015 compared to today? HUGE difference. I am no expert on actual real world weapons systems, but have they not also improved in the last few years or did everything just stay the same? Engineering becoming the norm to have a better ship should be normal, but perhaps the BASE module level should also improve as well instead of the same old stuff being sold forever. New cars come out every year and they are always (according to the sales brochure) better than last year, some of them actually are better (and some are worse!).
To summarize; accept power creep will always happen, and those that want an edge can engineer now, but today's G5 should be next year's base level (I might post this to the suggestion area). The engineering gets you ahead for a while but not forever.
They got used to it and don't want to miss it. In part rolling it back would make the game tedious as pre-2.1 (most notably probably FSD tweaking).
Imo, you design a game and have it balanced for vanilla, not make it ridiculously unpractical and virtually impossible in parts and release an expansion which gives players stuff to grind out the tedious parts with powercreep.
Should have been sidegrades and "mild upgrades" from the start - just like they marketed it to us. Yes, they really sold engineering as "mild upgrades" to us.
Happens all the time. Sometimes if they look really green and clueless, I warn them that I'm about to blast them if they pick the wrong side. They don't usually listen. Spray those peasants with a hose of bullets and farm their tears like a pro.
LOL. Yeah I was in a combat CG when my first player killed came barreling in with his Vulture at my Cutter. I kinda wonder if they were new and just saw another Cutter to get after. Noticed the red hollow and so FA-off turned on him and boosted. They disappeared in a cloud of rail sparkles and red puffs. I didn't even finish the first pass before they popped.
"Huh, well that was short and exciting for them". Didn't feel bad at all. If there is a CMDR on the opposing side of a CZ, they are priority one to be dealt with. Hell, CZ fights are the most fun really. Generally meet a far more diverse set of ships from the usual FDL murder boats. I think we've all been there. My very first fight was over before I finished tumbling from the interdiction.
"Huh, well that was short and exciting for them". Didn't feel bad at all. If there is a CMDR on the opposing side of a CZ, they are priority one to be dealt with. Hell, CZ fights are the most fun really. Generally meet a far more diverse set of ships from the usual FDL murder boats. I think we've all been there. My very first fight was over before I finished tumbling from the interdiction.
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I think it's widely acknowledged. But generally people would rather have it than not, given a proper, well-executed rework seems unlikely; otherwise a progress loop and depth associated with it is lost. Plus going to back to vanilla would be painful, at least in terms of flight characteristics - in fact aside from that I suppose it might be fine.
Yeah, not sure why ships were made so sluggish and painfully poor performing even with A components. Going back to un-engineered thrust would be excruciating.
That's pretty much how my first one went. I was trying my cutter out again (I'd actually not used it for CZs for a long time and trying to get a loadout I liked) when a krait appeared on the edge of the zone. I kept an eye on it, not exactly being subtle, all the funny laser colours and engine trails should have been a clue that I wasn't an ordinary cutter.
Then he turned red.
I was surprised how quickly he popped.
Problem is - it's a hollow red triangle in open and a krait isn't exactly a slouch when it's fitted out competently. Was I willing to put a 50M rebuy on the line to assume the other guy wasn't engineered? Let him hang around and maybe lose the zone as a result? No, I was not.
I was expecting a fight.
What happened instead was his shields melting almost immediately, followed by a salvo of hounds to the engines when he turned to run, then a superpen rail to the plant. Fun loadout, but not the most practical for extended PvE. Did I feel a little bad afterwards? Sure. Up until that point I'd always thought "when someone stows their hardpoints and turns to run I'll let them go" but in the heat of the moment this very much turned into "this fight ends with a rebuy one way or another".
One thing I learned from my pirating days is that commander loadouts vary wildly from "a serious threat far greater than anything any NPC will ever throw at you" to "literally made of tissue paper and I'd have to miss with half my hardpoints in order to not evaporate them in a single salvo".
The thing is, are you willing to gamble on which one they're gonna be? Especially in a CZ where they're way more likely to be the former than the latter?
The funniest syschat salt I've ever seen was someone who went to a war CG in open, joined a zone that already had a full wing, chose the other side, and immediately got vaporised.
He was being all "THEY COULD HAVE KEPT ATTACKING NPCS WHY DID THEY ATTACK ME?" and everyone else was like "because you were red on the radar bruh"
He was being all "THEY COULD HAVE KEPT ATTACKING NPCS WHY DID THEY ATTACK ME?" and everyone else was like "because you were red on the radar bruh"
CZ in open? Player on the side of the enemy? Primary target. Primary threat. Deal with first. Dive in!
Particularly in BGS this is really sought after. Having just been involved in a BGS player conflict it was quite infuriating that the other side choose to hide in solo and PG. When they did pop up occasionally discord was a rush to swap out the Vettes for FDLs, Mambas and Kraits.
Also really good when they popped up in ground CZs for a bit of variety.
I don't see why anyone has any hesitation engaging another player on the opposite side in a CZ when this is literally what these areas are for.
Particularly in BGS this is really sought after. Having just been involved in a BGS player conflict it was quite infuriating that the other side choose to hide in solo and PG. When they did pop up occasionally discord was a rush to swap out the Vettes for FDLs, Mambas and Kraits.
Also really good when they popped up in ground CZs for a bit of variety.
I don't see why anyone has any hesitation engaging another player on the opposite side in a CZ when this is literally what these areas are for.
I'm not even convinced this ship would have lasted long against NPCs in even a low CZ.
Sounds completely fair too me!
Wasn't PvP one of the goals of CZs?
It's not as though you don't get a bunch of warnings that you're entering combat zones...
Wasn't PvP one of the goals of CZs?
It's not as though you don't get a bunch of warnings that you're entering combat zones...
CMDRs always take priority. Any unknown CMDR could be a hostile, an observer for a hostile, or an anchor for a hostile wing. Even a mediocre CMDR in a mediocre vessel will vastly outclass most NPCs.
In a CZ scenario, anyone who declares for the enemy is an enemy, anyone who hasn't declared for a side is an enemy, and anyone that declares for your side who approaches too closely is an enemy.
The same sort of occurrences happened long before Engineers, and probably with much greater frequency prior to Engineering. Back in late 2014 to early 2015, a beam, cannon, or missile Viper III could, in an ideal situation (like an unresponsive vessel), destroy a carbon copy of itself in four or five seconds, and something like an Eagle in even less time. Back before Beta 2, most small ships could be taken out with one good volley from a quad cannon Viper.
The difference now is that Engineering is a convenient scapegoat for the failings of the reckless and/or oblivious.
In a CZ scenario, anyone who declares for the enemy is an enemy, anyone who hasn't declared for a side is an enemy, and anyone that declares for your side who approaches too closely is an enemy.
The same sort of occurrences happened long before Engineers, and probably with much greater frequency prior to Engineering. Back in late 2014 to early 2015, a beam, cannon, or missile Viper III could, in an ideal situation (like an unresponsive vessel), destroy a carbon copy of itself in four or five seconds, and something like an Eagle in even less time. Back before Beta 2, most small ships could be taken out with one good volley from a quad cannon Viper.
The difference now is that Engineering is a convenient scapegoat for the failings of the reckless and/or oblivious.
There's a part of me that gets their perspective. The BGS is PvE activity and if a small squad ends up trying to win CZs from a larger one and will be facing not the PvE ships they would fight in CZs with but wings of murder boats then really nothing productive is occurring. Swapping out to full wings of FDLs to crush that guy that peeks into open is going to have a pretty predictable outcome I think. I also see the perspective of the larger org saying they should be able to use superior size to own the sky too and people should need to be instanced in open to get into and fight in the zones.
Then there is Power Play where you learn that in many instances the crowd that are the loudest most obnoxious "everything in open" groups are strangely absolutely NEVER to be seen hauling those millions in cargo in places that cargo is being hauled by the thousands per hour but yet somehow wings of FDLs and Mambas are everywhere. This has taught me to stop buying into that nonsense. It seems, on the large scale, its mostly infuriating when "they" do it.
Now I just enjoy those times a real, organic PvP moment occurs where it makes loads more sense than the typical "We're locking down Deciat" stuff. I use the modes to suit my interest for the night and stop worrying about all the rules people try to erect around it.
I'm not going to argue for BGS in open only here other than to say it was actually more fun engaging the other side. And arguably one enemy Cmdr engaging a wing of ours was more effective for them as that was time we didn't spend winning CZs.