The Thargoid War and the Ender's Game Paradox: A Choice We Must Face

[Nidoboros]

Until the thargoids either clear off or surrender I say we keep firing.
Heck I'd go on a diplomatic escort mission to talk peace with the bugs, but with gun ports open and all 6 advanced plasma chargers fully loaded.

But I remember who started this war... ripped out of witchspace and fired on without mercy, we gained a respite from them for a while, then they came back again, I'm sure they had the technical means to talk to us if they wanted but didn't and I was there at the Oracle on that night

And 1000's died, I remember making run after run with my Asp's cargo hold jammed with refugees hoping the bugs would not catch me.
They wanted a fight, and we've given them a fight and by god I wont rest until every last stinking thargoid is ejected out of our space.
Because every time I encounter a thargoid and open the gunports I shout
"REMEMBER THE ORACLE"

Bill

The first people pulled out of Witchspace were let go peacefully. It was only after people were caught with stolen tech that the Thargoids attacked.

See also: Oracle trespassing in their space, provoking an attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/zu8avf/how_did_the_second_thargoid_war_truly_start_year

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/zu8avf/how_did_the_second_thargoid_war_truly_start_year/

 

[aRJay]

Dunno, I never saw the movie...

I am told that could be a good thing if you liked the book.

The books got to be harder and harder to read as the series progressed.

But me & 3 alts have had a play with the last titan today.

Gone will be the space bugs and mankind can continue with their never-ending cycle of wars, killing far more than the Thargoids ever could.

 

[Rainbro]

The first people pulled out of Witchspace were let go peacefully. It was only after people were caught with stolen tech that the Thargoids attacked.

Basically true, but I think it's worth noting that the "after" here is about nine months if I remember rightly. They waited nine months to see if the powers would show any sign of caution once they discovered a nearby alien race. Anyone with an ounce of caution would probably back off on sending more military ships into the region to secure more alien resources, right? Maybe hold off until you know more, juuuust in case the aliens don't like that. Would be rather reckless to just keep going, or even ramp up efforts to "colonise" the region already filled with alien stuff.

Nine months of constant communication between humans and Thargoids. Just happened through actions, not words. The powers message was "we don't care".

 

[r09u3]

Was the Thargoid food pyramid based on faulty science?

They use no such crude system. They have the nutrition octagon!

 

[Surprize960]

As the Goids are an intelligent species, they would find a way to clearly communicate that they want peace.

They would have learned from their other approaches to our home systems, that humanity reacts angry when they attack our bases.

So why should they of all locations in the bubble place a Titan over Earth when their intention is „come on mankind, let’s make peace“? In Elite‘s world, the Thargoids are not that naive.

For me, it would be a very unsatisfying ending and a sign of naive storytelling if it is said “no, they came in peace, the playerbase just failed the test”.

 

[O'Roarke]

They might just be communicating with each other.

The first time the playerbase encountered audiograms were with the Probes.
Those weren't meant for us to interface with - it's part of their logistics chain in figuring out what is going on, what is out there.

---

That's why the CG was worded so oddly.

You'd have to arrange a team of 24 to 50 players, across all time zones, to be very persuasive in Sol's system chat; a very specific hour per day each.
The only group of players that has enough clout and connections to handle convincing organized players would be Canonn, I'd say.

There needs to be a literal and immediate cease fire if you want to give that peculiar plot option a chance.

-late edit-
You'd have to reduce the players attacking the Titan Cocijo to one-third of what has been the norm today; perhaps just half is enough but you'll cut it close.
And maybe get Delaine followers to "gank like mad" en-masse at Cocijo and Sol for good measure.

 

[Darrack]

Kill um all, leave none alive!!

O7

 

[SteveWW57]

The only good bug is a dead bug.

I have read several of the books.

The war against the bugs and their extermination was justified from the human viewpoint. Unprovoked attacks and torture by a superior enemy. With no ability to communicate to negotiate peace, what else was humanity to do? Roll over and hope for the best? That's not a good survival instinct.

In the end, Ender was able to give the bugs a new future.

P.S.

The Enemy gate is down.

 

[Nidoboros]

As the Goids are an intelligent species, they would find a way to clearly communicate that they want peace.

Humans are intelligent, have we found a way to clearly communicate with ants or spiders to stay out of our house? Aside from spraying poison to repel them, I mean. And if, despite spraying poison, they continue to show up and steal your ...

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Humans are intelligent, have we found a way to clearly communicate with ants or spiders to stay out of our house? Aside from spraying poison to repel them, I mean. And if, despite spraying poison, they continue to show up and steal your ...

Of course we have, not the least of which is spraying poison at them when they intrude, but since ants and spiders are not intelligent, they don't get it.

 

[Surprize960]

Humans are intelligent, have we found a way to clearly communicate with ants or spiders to stay out of our house? Aside from spraying poison to repel them, I mean. And if, despite spraying poison, they continue to show up and steal your ...

I think your comparison does not hit the nail on the head.

Look at it this way: humans drive cars, ants do not. In Elite, humans and Thargoid both fly spacecraft.

 

[Rainbro]

As the Goids are an intelligent species, they would find a way to clearly communicate that they want peace.

They would have learned from their other approaches to our home systems, that humanity reacts angry when they attack our bases.

So why should they of all locations in the bubble place a Titan over Earth when their intention is „come on mankind, let’s make peace“? In Elite‘s world, the Thargoids are not that naive.

For me, it would be a very unsatisfying ending and a sign of naive storytelling if it is said “no, they came in peace, the playerbase just failed the test”.

"The humans must be intelligent, but they haven't tried any of the common pheromones. And they must have learnt by now that we can fight back when they come into our systems and try to take our stuff. Why of all Iocations in the Pleiades would they put a warship over Merope 5C if they want peace?"

I don't think it's as simple as "they want peace". We've been at wars for years now,the most peaceful angels in the universe would have to respond with war at some point or else they'd be suicidal.

I think they are equally capable of both peace and war, judging by their early actions, before it devolved into attack and counterattack. The powers want war, so the Thargoids respond in kind. If the root cause of the war was removed, there could be peace. Would at least be worth a shot, if Frontier would give us the chance. It's like asking if humans would consider peace while the Titans occupied half the bubble.

 

[Rainbro]

Of course we have, not the least of which is spraying poison at them when they intrude, but since ants and spiders are not intelligent, they don't get it.

Reminds me of something Caleb Wycherly said, along the lines of "I wonder how these unintelligent creatures created such advanced technology". Quite a puzzle.

 

[Nidoboros]

Of course we have, not the least of which is spraying poison at them when they intrude, but since ants and spiders are not intelligent, they don't

I dunno, alcohol is poison but humans sure do consume a lot of it, maybe that isn't thr best comparison when determining sentience.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

Counter-point:

 

[Jinx Chrome]

Assuming that the image represents a pyramid is thinking from the human point of view, i.e. that in most cultures, we read from top to down. This isn't necessarily the same way as the Thargoids might think.
Regarding the history of mankind and the Guardian's history with the Thargoids, we rather must assume that they are hostile and compete with us although our galaxy is large enough that competition isn't necessary. Therefore, my conclusion is that we must destroy the last Titan and drive the Thargoids away from the human habitats.

 

[Kayvan]

We don't even know if the message is intended for us or for their hivemates back home.

As I wrote in the Next Targets thread, if it isn't meant for us, it could mean something like
"We went looking for their hive queen. Turns out they don't have a hive queen. Each and every pair of them can make more of themselves."

That said, if we ever "misunderstood" them, we have done so quite deliberately.
This war broke out after "we" tried to commit genocide against them, AGAIN. Not really surprising that they are not thrilled about us.
And despite this, Thargoids outside of this war detachment are still just curious about us. I find their hooting and honking when they scan us, or when you give them something to scoop up, quite delightful.
When they have attacked our starports etc in the past - before this war - if you ask me that was just a response to our encroachment on what they see as their territory. Would our reaction be any different if they built bases in the bubble?

Long story short, we might be at a point now where something like "peaceful coexistence by way of consequently ignoring each other" might be possible.
Of course that is unlikely to happen as it would take away gameplay loops that many players enjoy.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

The message can be intrpreted in multiple contradictory ways, it isn't even clear if it's directed at us or intercepted internal communication.
We can see the devastation of the Sol System, we can also see the withdrawl of Thargoids from around the Solar system, though again that's open to contradictory interpretation.
Certainly there's enough to ponder on though the Titan itself shows no signs of moving now and given how quickly the remaining health is depleting I doubt any meaningful change could be made on that front. That said I'm spending what time remains evacuating the injured from Mars High.

 

[Nidoboros]

Counter-point:
View attachment 411989

I dunno if quoting the satirical film of 'humans are space nazis' is the best play here.

That war was kicked off by humans trespassing and trying to colonize in xenos territory, too. Neat.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

I dunno, alcohol is poison but humans sure do consume a lot of it, maybe that isn't thr best comparison when determining sentience.

The fact that we cultivated beverages with enough poison in them to kill harmful microbes without harming us if dosed moderately, before we had the benefits of the microscope or an understanding of microbiology (which we went on to develop and retroactively apply to our preexisting sciences), and integrated it into multiple cultural celebrations from vulgar to sacred, speaks well for our ability to read, understand, and manipulate cause and effect relative to species who lack that sort of analytic prowess. That does bring up an interesting alternative, though: Have we considered getting the Thargoids drunk? It worked on the original cyclops...