The Trouble with Associating Jump Range with Exploration Gameplay

[mtt9999 [Parabolus]]

Jump range is important more for just racing places. Fuel scooping potential and efficiency, and also things like supercruise maneuverability and so on are more important for exploration efficiency. More time exploring, going about your business, whatever that might be, and less time waiting for game mechanics.

If your business is racing off somewhere, then jump range is more important for you. This has nothing really specific to do with exploration and has just as much to do, if not more so, with the other careers in the game, like trading, where jump range is more important to be more effective at it.

Jump range is nice to have, but it isn't really so much of an exploration specific game mechanic, unless your brand of exploration is trying to reach the outermost fringes of the galaxy (when compared to others doing the same), or similar, which is more of a niche type of exploration. Jump range doesn't much affect systems explored per time the way fuel scooping does.

In a sense, jump range is more of a capability to avoid exploration and get on with whatever else you'd rather be doing in the game – I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that specifically, and in fact it can be a nice optional ability to have (even when out exploring, ironically enough); I'm just calling it like I see it. Personally, I'd rather see more to exploration itself than enhanced ways of avoiding or selectively circumventing it through quality-of-life or accessibility type travel mechanics. We'll see what Q4 brings, but I'm somewhat optimistic, and hope Frontier take these things into consideration when further enhancing and developing exploration gameplay.

You quickly pass over hard to reach places as niche exploration. Tell that to all the cmdrs who visited BP or Ishums Reach -a key aspect of long range exploration - being able to REACH far away places, in particular those at the bottom and top of galaxy. Those areas are rich with unique old stars with crazy systems. .. and moreover they offer some of the most spectacular views in the galaxy. But hey, since I like a 60ly+ range I must not be a REAL explorer. I should only just jump in economical range like you right? Right. [sighs]

Take it from someone who has been to the top and and once held the record for lowest system visited below the plane. Long range is MUCH MORE then just getting somewhere quickly.

 

[WR3ND]

...

There will always be further away systems that we will never be able to reach regardless of jump range. It's a moving goalpost of sorts, and I do have some experience with it, at least, though nothing quite at your caliber...

Spoiler

I do plan on taking my Vulture explorer ship, The Ronin out to Beagle Point this year or the next on Distant Worlds 2.

#2075 03D-DW – The Ronin, Vulture – WR3ND

See you out in the black, Commander. o7

 

[mtt9999 [Parabolus]]

There will always be further away systems that we will never be able to reach regardless of jump range. It's a moving goalpost of sorts, and I do have some experience with it, at least, though nothing quite at your caliber...

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/Vlkk1kA.jpg

I do plan on taking my Vulture explorer ship, The Ronin out to Beagle Point this year or the next on Distant Worlds 2.

#2075 03D-DW – The Ronin, Vulture – WR3ND

See you out in the black, Commander. o7

Firstly let me say my response was harsher than I intended, plus I reread your OP and noticed you did mention hard to reach places - and that is why i edited my post. Secondly, I admire your determination in taking a vulture exploring! That is bold! Finally, after rereading your first post, I think I misread your argument, and I agree with you that jump range doesn't affect game play. In fact, there really isn't any exploration game play at all, a dissapointing aspect of the current state of the galaxy!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Exploration as it's currently implemented relies on players setting tgeir own goals in order to make it interesting. The odds of finding something unique or spectacular are astronomical (sorry).

For some, the goal is taking their ships to the limits of the galaxy - hence the clamor for longer jump ranges.
Others want to take cool selfies - and thus we had the beige fury.
Personally, I've become an astrocartographer, which means I spend my time mapping stars listed in the 21st century catalogues - the HDs, HRs and HIPs. Currently on my 4th constellation (out of 88) so there's plenty to keep me occipied.

My dead headed out and kept handwritten spreadsheets for accounting purposes. Said he ran across ETWs and WWs that other players had just passed up. Guy really made an adventure of it. Came back with like 300M in explo data, and I think only went 10k Ly or so.

I applaud you for setting your cataloging goals. They sound awesome.

 

[[SI] Bobdelion]

It might sound trite but I've always felt that exploration is about the journey rather than the destination. In my book anyone looking to take a short cut out into the black just so that they can get to the choice pickings that much quicker is not really getting into the spirit of the thing.

Fact is that however much their Lonely Planet books may tell them otherwise, people who go on weekend breaks to far-off climbs should never be seen in the same light as Hillary, Columbus, Armstrong or any number of _real_ explorers. From what they've been saying more recently I think FDev have the right idea by looking to provide more things to interact with on your journey rather than just making the speed you can get to your destination that much quicker (which in itself will always be subject to the law of diminishing returns).

 

[Captain Thea Kreutzer]

Jump range is important more for just racing places. Fuel scooping potential and efficiency, and also things like supercruise maneuverability and so on are more important for exploration efficiency. More time exploring, going about your business, whatever that might be, and less time waiting for game mechanics.

If your business is racing off somewhere, then jump range is more important for you. This has nothing really specific to do with exploration and has just as much to do, if not more so, with the other careers in the game, like trading, where jump range is more important to be more effective at it.

Jump range is nice to have, but it isn't really so much of an exploration specific game mechanic, unless your brand of exploration is trying to reach the outermost fringes of the galaxy (when compared to others doing the same), or similar, which is more of a niche type of exploration. Jump range doesn't much affect systems explored per time the way fuel scooping does.

In a sense, jump range is more of a capability to avoid exploration and get on with whatever else you'd rather be doing in the game – I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that specifically, and in fact it can be a nice optional ability to have (even when out exploring, ironically enough); I'm just calling it like I see it. Personally, I'd rather see more to exploration itself than enhanced ways of avoiding or selectively circumventing it through quality-of-life or accessibility type travel mechanics. We'll see what Q4 brings, but I'm somewhat optimistic, and hope Frontier take these things into consideration when further enhancing and developing exploration gameplay.

I agree jump range doesnt matter unless you are heading to somewhere like beagle point

 

[WR3ND]

I agree jump range doesnt matter unless you are heading to somewhere like beagle point

Well, to be fair, jump range and likewise travel mechanics are a component of exploration; I'm just sort of arguing that they aren't an exploration specific gameplay mechanic and as such, exploration shouldn't be further developed and enhanced primarily based on accessibility type travel mechanics, which seems to be the general trend.

As others have pointed out, there are kinds of exploration that are more heavily specifically based on jump range and comparative jump ranges between ships and players; I just don't really see it as a more general or overarching form of exploration gameplay, if that makes sense.

Finding specific routes places that you can't just automatically plot to is also somewhat of an exception here, and can be a component of exploration gameplay, in my opinion, but this has comparatively rather limited use and relevance in exploration within the game as a whole, which essential currently just amounts to select systems or body types scanned per time.

Having personal goals in the game and having an ongoing treasure hunt of sorts finding unique or interesting systems are the main reasons I keep at exploring the galaxy, other than just the joy of traveling the galaxy itself, of course, even if I might be somewhat disappointed with certain aspects of it. It's still a compelling feature of the game overall to me, as strange as that might sound to some.

It's a bit of a love/hate relationship of sorts. Like any good relationship, what you get out of it is proportional to what you put into it, and I personally wouldn't mind if Frontier put a little more love into exploration gameplay, which they fortunately at least seem somewhat intent on doing.

 

[crushdepth]

If we had some dedicated exploration ships that actually had exploration features, people might use those. Since we don't, the only differentiator is how far can it jump and how big a fuel scoop can I strap to it. And occasionally 'does it have a nice view'.

 

[NW3]

Jump range is important for travel and allows you to reach places you otherwise would not be able to reach.

Personally, I consider myself an explorer, but I'd love to have more range (than my current 46 lys). It allows me to get to far off, interesting places, without losing my mind in the tedium. Also, when I get tired of the black, a good jump range allows me to return to the bubble without an excessive grind.

I'd rather visit fewer systems and explore them in detail, as opposed to visiting lots of systems and only scanning the central star. A good jump range gives you flexibility; you can always route using the economical option.

 

[andrewg_oz]

I agree jump range doesnt matter unless you are heading to somewhere like beagle point

Jump range doesn't matter even then. I flew to Beagle Point pre-engineers in my 27.95Ly range Asp, and lots of people flew there with even shorter ranges.

A longer jump range doesn't bring anything new to the game, except make the galaxy smaller - something that we can never bring back to the game.

I'm totally with MadDogMurdock on this, I feel the galaxy loses something valuable and important with each increase to FSD range - the feel of the galaxy *being* big, and the feel that the gaps between the arms of the galaxy are actually there.

On my recent trip to Beagle Point my Anaconda was able to just plot a route north from the core straight up to Beagle Point! It was as if "The Abyss" wasn't there

I would rather the engineering buffs to the FSD range were not in the game. I don't mind so much the synthesis boosts, as they are one-offs and need to be manually plotted, but the engineered FSD boosts have permanently changed the galaxy. The gaps between the arms are meaningless and gone, and we'll never get them back.

IMAO it's all because there are far too many casuals who find travelling a couple of hundred light years in the bubble a chore.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

To be honest there is no real exploration in Elite, it's all just imaginary role play. There is honking and pointing at objects in a star system, there is your game mechanics.

I am hoping Beyond Q4 changes this, because I want to go on an exploration adventure. Imagine sending a probe to a planet and the probe reveals points of interest on the planet. Three points of were found, one was a barnacle site, the other a crashed satellite with some encoded data. The last one was a crashed Anaconda, after scanning the crashed ship with the SRV, it seems they were looking for an old research vessel but were attacked by pirates. The scan has updated my Codex and has revealed galaxy co-ord they were heading to. Seems I have to travel 5,000ly to get to these co-ords. After exploring the systems in the hinted surrounding area I've finally found the research vessel and after scanning it has revealed that they were looking for alien ruins. The codex is once again updated giving me more clues were to go next, where will the breadcrumb trail finally end?

This is the kind of thing I want to see.

If this is how Beyond ends up, then jump range is important. Who want to travel 5000ly to get to a destination in a 15ly jump range ship?

 

[WR3ND]

...

If this is how Beyond ends up, then jump range is important. Who want to travel 5000ly to get to a destination in a 15ly jump range ship?

Hypothetically speaking, there's a lot of space even within one system to potentially explorer and things to potentially do and encounter within it. But yes, it would be nice if some of these things had greater implications and ramifications elsewhere as well.

It sort of makes me think of the old Star Trek episodes, in a way.

 

[mtt9999 [Parabolus]]

I would love to have the LMC or Andromeda opened up with a Fog of Exploration mechanic in place where we can't see much beyond say a couple hundred light years radius around our ship, until it is actually explored by someone. Not knowing where the boundaries are, not knowing where the gaps are, even what direction is the core...

Agreed. Imo this is where fdev made a mistake with the milky way. True exploration would have been blackness, where only systems visible from the ship / Earth would show up on galmap until they were actually logged with universal cartographics (think of the Civilization exploration mechanic).

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Hypothetically speaking, there's a lot of space even within one system to potentially explorer and things to potentially do and encounter within it. But yes, it would be nice if some of these things had greater implications and ramifications elsewhere as well.

It sort of makes me think of the old Star Trek episodes, in a way.

I am just hoping FDev don't mess up the exploration update. I think it might be a make or break for some people.

 

[WR3ND]

I am just hoping FDev don't mess up the exploration update. I think it might be a make or break for some people.

That may be true, but for me there is enough in the game even as is to keep me interested now and then for quite a while. I just have hopes for more, of course, and see a lot of potential for it still in this game.

 

[Allitnil]

The edge will always be the edge regardless of how big jump ranges get - it'll just be that bit further out.

I'm afraid not. There's a hard edge to the proc-gen ED galaxy and all but a very tiny handful of systems on it have been reached.

 

[Han Zulu]

I am just hoping FDev don't mess up the exploration update. I think it might be a make or break for some people.

I hope so too. My worries is that FDev have (probably based on how the old Elite games were) been very combat focused. The majority of things added to the game have been around how to incorporate it into some form of combat. I hope that the exploration expansion won't be yet another lead-up to some mega-massive galaxy wide war with a bunch of aliens and that the exploration findings are different things that ties into that and gives us more weapons. I don't want another shoot-to-kill thing that is modified to somewhat satisfy explorers. I hope we'll see things that are specific and only for exploration.

 

[Amras Arfeiniel]

I agree that the jump range shouldn't get any bigger then it is right now. Because the galaxy will feel less big with growing jump ranges.
Instead they could let us "find" Jumpgate technology. The can make huge CGs for building them. And those should only exist in or near the bubble. (and for god sake don't put one at Colonia. They would hate it. )
That would help casual players get around faster while others can still keep the feeling of a big galaxy that needs time to fly around in it.

Although I have no idea how a jumpgate would affect economy and stuff. Might even be impossible to add something like that.

 

[Han Zulu]

I'm good with the jump range as well, the only one I'd like to see get a JR buff is the scout. I don't understand why the scout doesn't have the same or better range than the explorer? The scout has the purpose of moving around and finding things quickly for a fleet, but the explorer is better for that purpose.

 

[WR3ND]

I'm afraid not. There's a hard edge to the proc-gen ED galaxy and all but a very tiny handful of systems on it have been reached.

Hmm... "Ignorance is bliss."