The Trouble with Associating Jump Range with Exploration Gameplay

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

I spent the past three days exploring systems and planet surfaces (total of 230km in the SRV) in a nebula on the edge of the dense core region, using economical setting and filtering out visited systems. I made 30 jumps of 6ly and less before I could see a noticable dent in the fuel gauge.

In two weeks, two moons are going to collide in a system that is a bit over 15k ly from my present location. I plotted the route today, and it has me averaging 167 ly per jump to get there (max is 248).

I'll make a detour along the way to check out a couple of systems that appear to be 112 - 118 ly from any other to see if anyone else has gotten there first.

For me, jump range is important. For others, it is not.

The trouble with associating one's personal preference on jump range with how everyone else should approach exploration is that the logic is stupid.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

To each their own.

I don't call dashing around with a high jump range exploration though. I call that travelling. Exploration is what you do when you stop rushing and start looking.

You can explore close to the bubble, and once 5000LY out you should mainly be hitting unexplored systems anyway, unless near a nebula or some other POI.

A little as a year ago i found an untagged earth-like just 2000 LY from Sol.

 

[Valorin]

Since exploration is many things, and not just one, I think it depends on the goal and the task at hand.
If your target area of space is relatively close, or you're inspecting systems on the way anyway, any jumprange that would finally get there is sufficient.
If your target is far out and you like to get there fast to spend your gametime exploring that exact region of space, high jump range is preferable.

If your target is behind a starless gap of empty space, high jumprange is necessary.

So I would say, associating only jumprange with exploration is wrong, because there is much more about it than just traveling fast, but it can be mandatory.
It's definitely preferable because slowing down or even switch to economic plotting is possible anytime.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

You know what the difference is between the CMDR that traveled 2000 ly with a 16ly range to discover an ELW and the CMDR that travels 8000 ly with a 64ly range to discover an ELW?

Nothing.



They each made 125 jumps to get there.

Of course, the CMDR with the 64ly range stopped seeing discovered worlds a lot sooner than the other, but if neither had access to the gal map or any distances from one system to the next, they would have no idea that one had travled 6000ly further than the other.

 

[Ziljan]

The thesis of this this thread is unfortunately flawed and cannot be settled either way because it rests on the false premise that Exploration Gameplay actually exists.

Perhaps it will once Beyond: Chapter Four goes live, and then we'll be able to discuss the pros and cons of jump range. But currently, there is no such measuring stick as "gameplay" when it comes to exploration. Just a placeholder that at best deserves an asterisk, and certainly not its own Pilot's Federation rank. Piracy and PVP are both hollow shells of mechanics, but they each have infinitely more Gameplay than "Exploration" if any such activity can even be said to exist in Elite. Right now I have Elite rank in Combat, Trading, and Pointing-my-ship-at-Spaceballs.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I don't see a problem with very long jump ranges on any ship, because it doesn't matter how far a ship can jump, you can still only explore one of the 400 billion star systems at a time.

Longer jump ranges == you skip lots of those star systems and leave 'em for someone else to explore.1

Anyway - everyone is different and has their own preferences when it comes to exploring or travelling around this 400 billion star system galaxy - there's not a 'right' or a 'wrong' jump range here. Blaze your own trail as it were.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Jump range is important more for just racing places. Fuel scooping potential and efficiency, and also things like supercruise maneuverability and so on are more important for exploration efficiency. More time exploring, going about your business, whatever that might be, and less time waiting for game mechanics.

If your business is racing off somewhere, then jump range is more important for you. This has nothing really specific to do with exploration and has just as much to do, if not more so, with the other careers in the game, like trading, where jump range is more important to be more effective at it.

Jump range is nice to have, but it isn't really so much of an exploration specific game mechanic, unless your brand of exploration is trying to reach the outermost fringes of the galaxy (when compared to others doing the same), or similar, which is more of a niche type of exploration. Jump range doesn't much affect systems explored per time the way fuel scooping does.

In a sense, jump range is more of a capability to avoid exploration and get on with whatever else you'd rather be doing in the game – I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that specifically, and in fact it can be a nice optional ability to have (even when out exploring, ironically enough); I'm just calling it like I see it. Personally, I'd rather see more to exploration itself than enhanced ways of avoiding or selectively circumventing it through quality-of-life or accessibility type travel mechanics. We'll see what Q4 brings, but I'm somewhat optimistic, and hope Frontier take these things into consideration when further enhancing and developing exploration gameplay.

There are a wide variety of exploration play styles, and IMO only two of them have a real need for long jump ranges: the sight seer, and the Gentleman Adventurer! In the case of the sight seer, they generally don't care about the distance between whatever interesting sights they're going to, and so want to move past the "boring" journey as fast as possible. In the case of the [FONT=&quot]Gentleman Adventurer![/FONT], their play style is all about reaching the unreachable star.

Personally, my exploration style is a combination of 4X (eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate) and survivalist. My general purpose for exploring is finding new Earthlike worlds for the Empire, upon which could be placed another beacon of the light of freedom, civilization, and prosperity. Don't really need a long jump range for that, because there are still plenty of Earthlikes, many of them undiscovered, within 500 LY of Sol. Unfortunately, despite material gathering, exploration in Elite: Dangerous doesn't really scratch my survivalist itch.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I don't see a problem with very long jump ranges on any ship, because it doesn't matter how far a ship can jump, you can still only explore one of the 400 billion star systems at a time.

Longer jump ranges == you skip lots of those star systems and leave 'em for someone else to explore.1

Anyway - everyone is different and has their own preferences when it comes to exploring or travelling around this 400 billion star system galaxy - there's not a 'right' or a 'wrong' jump range here. Blaze your own trail as it were.

Exploration seems to have become entirely synonymous with 'Discovery'.
Of course, that is a large element of what makes some explorers famous - Columbus*, Leif Eriksson, Cpt. Cook. etc

The part that has been almost entirely cut out, and now made almost entirely irrelevant by larger jump ranges is 'Pathfinding'.
I refer to the equally famous explorers, Magellan, Lewis & Clark, Livingstone, etc.

I can appreciate that everyone wants to get to places fast, but it has made almost every journey a straight line.

* 'Muricah was an accidental discovery while trying to path find.

 

[John Xenir]

I agree with you, Murdock.
I would love to be a pathfinder instead of (current shape of) explorer. It's just that the galaxy is opened for everyone since day one so such profession is in no way viable to sustain, unless taking part in some player-driven goal of mapping out an entire sector or whatnot.

So, instead, we've got racing towards goal because when entire galaxy is opened unconditionally, it's really about getting somewhere, not about how you get there.
As a guy that started as an explorer, I would love for this profession to have actual meaning but sadly, it doesn't. Like any other, for that matter.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Exploration seems to have become entirely synonymous with 'Discovery'.
Of course, that is a large element of what makes some explorers famous - Columbus*, Leif Eriksson, Cpt. Cook. etc

The part that has been almost entirely cut out, and now made almost entirely irrelevant by larger jump ranges is 'Pathfinding'.
I refer to the equally famous explorers, Magellan, Lewis & Clark, Livingstone, etc.

I can appreciate that everyone wants to get to places fast, but it has made almost every journey a straight line.

* 'Muricah was an accidental discovery while trying to path find.

I tend to think of it as Progress.

I mean, the kinds of technology we have today makes the travelling and surveying technology used by the likes of Magellan, Lewis & Clark, Livingstone, etc. look like the stone-age.

Why shouldn't technology in the 34th century improve, too?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I tend to think of it as Progress.

I mean, the kinds of technology we have today makes the travelling and surveying technology used by the likes of Magellan, Lewis & Clark, Livingstone, etc. look like the stone-age.

Why shouldn't technology in the 34th century improve, too?

That's all fine, except when it reduces a core profession in the game to nothing, although it was almost nothing on release to be honest.

We happen to live in a golden age, where technological progress seems to be relentless and accelerating. This hasn't always been the case, it's not something to take for granted.

 

[Drelthar]

The thesis of this this thread is unfortunately flawed and cannot be settled either way because it rests on the false premise that Exploration Gameplay actually exists.

Excellent. Repped.

 

[h347h]

Well jump range is important to exploring on the edge of the Galaxy above and below the plane. So don't forget not everyone explores the same way.

 

[askavir]

Well jump range is important to exploring on the edge of the Galaxy above and below the plane. So don't forget not everyone explores the same way.

Plus between spiral arms.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

That's all fine, except when it reduces a core profession in the game to nothing, although it was almost nothing on release to be honest.

We happen to live in a golden age, where technological progress seems to be relentless and accelerating. This hasn't always been the case, it's not something to take for granted.

But it doesn't reduce a core profession in the game to nothing.

You can have a jump range of 1000LY - there are still 400,000,000,000 star systems to actually be in and to explore. A ship with a 1000LY jump range can still only be in one of those star systems at any one time.

And as stated elsewhere - currently, exploration in this game consists of being in a star system, surveying it, then... nothing much else, really. So given all that, I'm puzzled as to why jump range is a thing which is being focused on and a thread created for it.

Surely it would be better to focus on What Is There To Do whilst your ship is in one of these 400,000,000,000 star systems? Because for me anyway, merely just surveying and perhaps driving on the surface of the odd planet or moon has worn a bit thin.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

But it doesn't reduce a core profession in the game to nothing.

You can have a jump range of 1000LY - there are still 400,000,000,000 star systems to actually be in and to explore. A ship with a 1000LY jump range can still only be in one of those star systems at any one time.

And as stated elsewhere - currently, exploration in this game consists of being in a star system, surveying it, then... nothing much else, really. So given all that, I'm puzzled as to why jump range is a thing which is being focused on and a thread created for it.

Surely it would be better to focus on What Is There To Do whilst your ship is in one of these 400,000,000,000 star systems? Because for me anyway, merely just surveying and perhaps driving on the surface of the odd planet or moon has worn a bit thin.

Then you missed the point about path finding. Your point is solely about discovery, which is only half of what exploration should be in my opinion.

When peak jump range was around 35LY, actually getting out to the edge was an effort because of the sparseness between the arms.
You couldn't just plow through in more or less a straight line like you can now.

Absolutely agree that we need more mechanics once we get somewhere though.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

While I am bit disappointed of not having actual hyperpath discovery mechanism, I admit it would make ED very different game and most likely exploration as profession would be very hardcore and not pleasant.

Taking that in mind jump range really does not matter that much. Exploration needs to be about fine details which I hope Q4 will bring at least at introductory level. Definitely about limiting your jump range because people are afraid you will jump around galaxy too quickly. It still take some balls to go out and explore.

So while some of jump ranges feel extreme, I don't think they are that huge deal.

 

[WR3ND]

Well jump range is important to exploring on the edge of the Galaxy above and below the plane. So don't forget not everyone explores the same way.

Yeah, I mention that in the OP, if I recall, and I've occasionally explored that way myself as well. But unless you're trying to reach the "edge," a specific target, or get a distance record or something, specific jump range doesn't really matter that much. I've done a bit of this type of exploring as well.

 

[signal11th]

Ye because ever in the whole of human technological evolution we designed something to make doing something slower and more time consuming on purpose.

 

[WR3ND]

Ye because ever in the whole of human technological evolution we designed something to make doing something slower and more time consuming on purpose.

What does this have to do with exploration in this game?