The Truth about Hackusation Culture

For 5-6 years I played with a law enforcement PvP role play group on console. During that time I had the bittersweet experience of fighting truly exceptional players and outlaw groups.

I remember the first time I noticed range control. Both my opponent and I were in FDLs. I boosted past him, turned… and noticed him very close behind me. This happened continuously until I died. Afterwards I figured he must just have a faster ship.

I later joined NF and began to learn methods of FDL dogfighting. As pitching is faster than yaw, I was taught to roll so the aiming reticle is vertical and more easily reached. I was taught not to spam boost, to instead recognise when my opponent was boosting and then follow, bringing the reticle over the ship so to create the shortest distance between. To fire plasma when travelling at max speed, as they inherit momentum, and time my boost so to catch them on the stall.

When an opponent tried to boost directly past me, I was taught to pitch and turn before boosting, so that I am able to follow in close behind. This is called a preturn, something which requires a lot of practice to get the timing right, and what I witnessed in the example above.

All this and more, to learn and practice in the pursuit of perfection, is what keeps the game alive for me and many others in the PvP community. I’ve ate billions of rebuys in the attempt to git gud, and after 10k hours I’m still not able to consistently hold range.

I do however have days when it all comes together, depending on my state of mind, opponent and luck.

I take pride in a good performance, more than I would to win. If winning was my main priority I would simply use a premo rail reverski cutter as some are known for. These are no fun to fight.

When my group migrated to PC, it was a bit of a culture shock. Some PvP etiquette was different, such as returning to fights after death. We adapted, and continue to enjoy good PvP with the majority of player groups.

However. There are some out there, led by He Who Shall Not Be Named, who would degrade or demean our efforts, publicly stating that what we are doing is not possible for normal gameplay, only through use of third party tools or software. They are experts in the field, you see, not incompetent or misinformed. In fact should you try to challenge these accusations or offer help in better understanding how to achieve range control, you will be blocked and banned from their server.

I appreciate not everyone plays the game for PvP, and most who do will know already know this is a hopeless case, but to any of you who are part of this hackusation culture, please understand. You are being lied to. I’m not saying there isn’t people who have hacked or used cheats. I’m simply trying to wake you up to the reality. They’ve coined the term “skill pill” as someone who is fooled into believing range control is possible. As someone who was recently accused of cheating, I’m willing to try and teach, though I’m not the best.

Perhaps a review of my system, if that’s possible. Still a bit unsure about PC stuff and miss the console “one button then GO” feature.

Accusations go beyond this, into the realm of lag switches etc, but that’s for another time, and I’d simply remind everyone of imperfect P2P connections, desync and lag.

My dream for the PvP community is better communication and relationships between groups, without suspicion of unfair advantage. If you made it to the end of this rant, have a cookie. You earned it o7
 
For 5-6 years I played with a law enforcement PvP role play group on console. During that time I had the bittersweet experience of fighting truly exceptional players and outlaw groups.

I remember the first time I noticed range control. Both my opponent and I were in FDLs. I boosted past him, turned… and noticed him very close behind me. This happened continuously until I died. Afterwards I figured he must just have a faster ship.

I later joined NF and began to learn methods of FDL dogfighting. As pitching is faster than yaw, I was taught to roll so the aiming reticle is vertical and more easily reached. I was taught not to spam boost, to instead recognise when my opponent was boosting and then follow, bringing the reticle over the ship so to create the shortest distance between. To fire plasma when travelling at max speed, as they inherit momentum, and time my boost so to catch them on the stall.

When an opponent tried to boost directly past me, I was taught to pitch and turn before boosting, so that I am able to follow in close behind. This is called a preturn, something which requires a lot of practice to get the timing right, and what I witnessed in the example above.

All this and more, to learn and practice in the pursuit of perfection, is what keeps the game alive for me and many others in the PvP community. I’ve ate billions of rebuys in the attempt to git gud, and after 10k hours I’m still not able to consistently hold range.

I do however have days when it all comes together, depending on my state of mind, opponent and luck.

I take pride in a good performance, more than I would to win. If winning was my main priority I would simply use a premo rail reverski cutter as some are known for. These are no fun to fight.

When my group migrated to PC, it was a bit of a culture shock. Some PvP etiquette was different, such as returning to fights after death. We adapted, and continue to enjoy good PvP with the majority of player groups.

However. There are some out there, led by He Who Shall Not Be Named, who would degrade or demean our efforts, publicly stating that what we are doing is not possible for normal gameplay, only through use of third party tools or software. They are experts in the field, you see, not incompetent or misinformed. In fact should you try to challenge these accusations or offer help in better understanding how to achieve range control, you will be blocked and banned from their server.

I appreciate not everyone plays the game for PvP, and most who do will know already know this is a hopeless case, but to any of you who are part of this hackusation culture, please understand. You are being lied to. I’m not saying there isn’t people who have hacked or used cheats. I’m simply trying to wake you up to the reality. They’ve coined the term “skill pill” as someone who is fooled into believing range control is possible. As someone who was recently accused of cheating, I’m willing to try and teach, though I’m not the best.

Perhaps a review of my system, if that’s possible. Still a bit unsure about PC stuff and miss the console “one button then GO” feature.

Accusations go beyond this, into the realm of lag switches etc, but that’s for another time, and I’d simply remind everyone of imperfect P2P connections, desync and lag.

My dream for the PvP community is better communication and relationships between groups, without suspicion of unfair advantage. If you made it to the end of this rant, have a cookie. You earned it o7
One part of this that you missed was the control scheme wars, these same people used to campaign that keyboard and mouse was untouchable for pvp and far too strong, the only way to balance pvp in their opinion was to remove the relative mouse function from the game. What actually ended this was your migration from console, as all the console players arrived and competed at a far higher skill level on their controllers than they claimed possible.

Its very religious, as more about the game is learned and they are proved ever more wrong by people who eclipse 18 000 hours of accomplishments in months or less they retreat to less and less concrete claims, but the core is still there: I lost unfairly, it is not possible for me, someone who has been playing the game for a long time, to be out skilled by someone who has been playing for a fraction of that time.
 
The last time I played PvP was a couple of years ago when the "Trainers" were making a big splash. Videos of condas doing impossible things inside stations, killing everyone and ignoring station guns. Does that kind of thing still happen?
 
The last time I played PvP was a couple of years ago when the "Trainers" were making a big splash. Videos of condas doing impossible things inside stations, killing everyone and ignoring station guns. Does that kind of thing still happen?

Occasionally people blatantly hack, yeah. However I watched a clip of an anaconda blow someone up inside a station a survive without hacks, more due to build. For example you can B rate modules for higher integrity, use mirrored bulkheads and stack armour instead of shields.
IIRC

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYHza5Ie1w


Build link: https://s.orbis.zone/kmq7

EDIT: Thanks to Mr North as below, this was confirmed as exploiting spaghetti code.
You get thermal resist g5 mirrored armor, with reflective, puts you to 72% thermal resist, and above 70%, anything you do which should detract from that thermal resist, actually increases it, so you can keep pushing the thermal resist up by adding kinetic and blast HRPs with deep plate.
 
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Some people just can't take losing. Putting a lot of time into gitting gud and then likely a complete stranger wallops you, or even comes close. It feels like a personal attack on the effort you put in, even though the other person will have done similar, but you don't see that. There must be some explanation for it. You're good, after all.

I'm not a PvPer, but I've seen the pattern enough in this game and others where I am. First their strategy must be bad, or a "crutch" somehow, a stat check, whatever silly term is needed. Because then it doesn't really matter that you lost, you're still better, because you weren't using that crutch. If the focus were on the fight itself, you really ought to be able to respond to a wide range of strategies, but this shifts it back to the skill of the participants, because that's what's insulting to who loses.

If that doesn't work (ie: everyone using FDLs), then you go to straight cheating, and this game makes it easy. Premium ammo. Poor connections being onesided (somehow?), if not outright lag switches. Hacks. It's almost impossible to disprove, and you don't need any evidence to use it to explain away a loss. The possibility of using a hacked client to gain subtle advantages is a valid one and there's no way to know. But unless there's strong evidence, immediately jumping to accusations of hacks just looks like not being able to take a loss. Subtle advantages are only subtle, anyway, it's not going to swing a match unless you were fairly close anyway.
 
Some people just can't take losing. Putting a lot of time into gitting gud and then likely a complete stranger wallops you, or even comes close. It feels like a personal attack on the effort you put in, even though the other person will have done similar, but you don't see that. There must be some explanation for it. You're good, after all.

I'm not a PvPer, but I've seen the pattern enough in this game and others where I am. First their strategy must be bad, or a "crutch" somehow, a stat check, whatever silly term is needed. Because then it doesn't really matter that you lost, you're still better, because you weren't using that crutch. If the focus were on the fight itself, you really ought to be able to respond to a wide range of strategies, but this shifts it back to the skill of the participants, because that's what's insulting to who loses.

If that doesn't work (ie: everyone using FDLs), then you go to straight cheating, and this game makes it easy. Premium ammo. Poor connections being onesided (somehow?), if not outright lag switches. Hacks. It's almost impossible to disprove, and you don't need any evidence to use it to explain away a loss. The possibility of using a hacked client to gain subtle advantages is a valid one and there's no way to know. But unless there's strong evidence, immediately jumping to accusations of hacks just looks like not being able to take a loss. Subtle advantages are only subtle, anyway, it's not going to swing a match unless you were fairly close anyway.
Premium ammo is not cheating. Legit available gameplay option.
 
For 5-6 years I played with a law enforcement PvP role play group on console. During that time I had the bittersweet experience of fighting truly exceptional players and outlaw groups.

I remember the first time I noticed range control. Both my opponent and I were in FDLs. I boosted past him, turned… and noticed him very close behind me. This happened continuously until I died. Afterwards I figured he must just have a faster ship.

I later joined NF and began to learn methods of FDL dogfighting. As pitching is faster than yaw, I was taught to roll so the aiming reticle is vertical and more easily reached. I was taught not to spam boost, to instead recognise when my opponent was boosting and then follow, bringing the reticle over the ship so to create the shortest distance between. To fire plasma when travelling at max speed, as they inherit momentum, and time my boost so to catch them on the stall.

When an opponent tried to boost directly past me, I was taught to pitch and turn before boosting, so that I am able to follow in close behind. This is called a preturn, something which requires a lot of practice to get the timing right, and what I witnessed in the example above.

All this and more, to learn and practice in the pursuit of perfection, is what keeps the game alive for me and many others in the PvP community. I’ve ate billions of rebuys in the attempt to git gud, and after 10k hours I’m still not able to consistently hold range.

I do however have days when it all comes together, depending on my state of mind, opponent and luck.

I take pride in a good performance, more than I would to win. If winning was my main priority I would simply use a premo rail reverski cutter as some are known for. These are no fun to fight.

When my group migrated to PC, it was a bit of a culture shock. Some PvP etiquette was different, such as returning to fights after death. We adapted, and continue to enjoy good PvP with the majority of player groups.

However. There are some out there, led by He Who Shall Not Be Named, who would degrade or demean our efforts, publicly stating that what we are doing is not possible for normal gameplay, only through use of third party tools or software. They are experts in the field, you see, not incompetent or misinformed. In fact should you try to challenge these accusations or offer help in better understanding how to achieve range control, you will be blocked and banned from their server.

I appreciate not everyone plays the game for PvP, and most who do will know already know this is a hopeless case, but to any of you who are part of this hackusation culture, please understand. You are being lied to. I’m not saying there isn’t people who have hacked or used cheats. I’m simply trying to wake you up to the reality. They’ve coined the term “skill pill” as someone who is fooled into believing range control is possible. As someone who was recently accused of cheating, I’m willing to try and teach, though I’m not the best.

Perhaps a review of my system, if that’s possible. Still a bit unsure about PC stuff and miss the console “one button then GO” feature.

Accusations go beyond this, into the realm of lag switches etc, but that’s for another time, and I’d simply remind everyone of imperfect P2P connections, desync and lag.

My dream for the PvP community is better communication and relationships between groups, without suspicion of unfair advantage. If you made it to the end of this rant, have a cookie. You earned it o7
cheers man o7 I'm keen to provide assistance of potential checks regarding game mechanics if needed.
While I was shocked by cheats which were recently exposed - the witch-hunt/hacusation after became insane. I see no harm to teach or to spread knowledge "how to fly" like you described or "how does it work" (game mechanics related).

Hope more pilots will use common sense instead of old offends or listening to "experts".
o7
 
It is if you have agreed not to use it. Nobody needs more material grinding in their life just to be at a level playing field.

I fell this is kinda the crux of the issue. There are things that FDev deems Not Okay, and organisers of arranged competitions. But there are lots of things some consider cheating, or morally corrupt or whatever that are allowed.

Attempts to impose one's own rules onto others. There are a lot of things others do that I do not do. There are very, very few things others do that I consider they should not be allowed to do in an openworld game.
 
No matter how easy it is to hack a game, the volume of hackusations is almost invariably some large multiple of actual cases, so the burden of proof is generally on the accuser. It takes a pattern of rather blatant incongruities, or an open admission, to convince me of cheating.

Even in organized competitions there is going to be some degree of uncertainty. At some point people will just have to give their fellow competitors the benefit of the doubt.
 
Don't really care if some rail Cutter (ahem) uses premos in an organic furball but some people have legitimately lost their minds about a modicum of skill in flying and being able to hit your target even once every few boost cycles and have been throwing hackusations or very poorly veiled allusions in and outside the game for a good few years
 
Occasionally people blatantly hack, yeah. However I watched a clip of an anaconda blow someone up inside a station a survive without hacks, more due to build. For example you can B rate modules for higher integrity, use mirrored bulkheads and stack armour instead of shields.
IIRC

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYHza5Ie1w


Build link: https://s.orbis.zone/kmq7

That build is an exploit - and that still counts as cheating (*)
However, you cannot tell if they were running that build or had a trainer behind to up their hull (from what i read, trainers these days allows you to customize basically anything in the ship build using altered coriolis builds as source for ship parameters in game)
As i said more than once, dumb cheaters will always be obvious, but good players cheating smart are almost impossible to catch/notice by players

Point is: in a very competitive pvp environment, with no anticheat measures in place and with no active policing, cheating will always happen to a certain degree.

*(you should not be able to increase your thermal resistance by adding kinetic and explosive HRP - but i dont know if it is a bug in coriolis - whioh can be used as a cheat-sheet for modding ships in game - or is it happening in the game as well)
 
The flip side of this is when you're accused of stuff due to game bugs. I had a player once who was:

- Able to teleport in front of me after I surrendered to an interdiction.
- Be firing basically right away (in range).
- Shoot me doing MASSIVE damage yet not seemingly taking a scratch themself.
- Able to move around in an unnatural way - they seemed to stay locked at my 2 O'Clock, irrespective of how I moved.
- Cause my UI to freeze so I couldn't even look at my right-side panel, let alone interact with it. (I know this bug of course, but some might not).

Of course, ALL of these are (I assumed at the time) symptoms of either a poor connection (mine is great) or perhaps an under-powered PC (mine is great) or just poor net code. I can only imagine what it looked like from their side. It did not occur to me that they might be cheating, purely that it was an instancing issue. Though some did later suggest there might be foul play. Now, I did actually ask this after I was back in-game, stating I was having some weird issues, my UI froze so the only responsive button was "Esc" I then did a menu log, as I wasn't actually playing the game any more. So, Stick did nothing - I even checked it was still connected, it was - but Esc worked and the mouse worked once I pressed Esc. I had fully expected my ship to be dead, I thought perhaps they'd shown mercy cos something (from my perspective at least) was obviously wrong with the instance.

Yet, despite trying to explain that something was certainly broken with our instance , they decided that did not match their special reality, and I was just a "combat logger" who should "stay in Solo". I mean, if they couldn't kill a well-shielded (though my shield went down almost instantly, 100% to 0%, no 100%, 90% etc. reduction) trade ship on the way to outfitting during the log-out timer, that suggests something is wrong. However, this person obviously did not want to discuss, which did make me think perhaps something else was going on with them. They just wanted to "chat" to hurl abuse, not listen to what actually happened. Great interaction there.

I actually got pretty good at combat once, usually in medium or small ships. These specialised builds were great at 1 v. 1 and taking down small groups of ships very quickly. They lacked the stamina needed for farming Res sites though. However, that faster-paced combat gradually became more exhausting than fun. While I still have the odd PvE blast in a small or medium ship, I generally prefer to cruise around in something larger - lazy, relaxing times. This one interaction did totally put me off Open for good*, I just don't need that sort of carp during my down-time. The Irony is, I didn't realise I was in Open, I thought I'd clicked "Private Group" (PvE only) so, when I was interdicted, I initially thought it was one of my buddies playing around.

* I'd had other instances where a Commander with (I assume) a poor connection or low-spec PC had entered an existing instance, causing all sorts of weirdness. Performance was perfect, they arrived and it went to carp. To get abuse from another Commander when such things occur. Nope.
 
@Northpin - That build is a one-trick pony though right? Engineered specifically to survive vs. station defences long enough to get the job done. Vs. any NPC, they'd surely see the lack of shields and use non-laser weapons - or, more likely, magically spawn in with more kinetic or explosive weaponry - spawns seem to react to what you're flying.

Note: I do quite like the idea of super-specialised build like this, design to survive specific situations. I've done armour tanks myself, but the loadouts of NPC that spawn do indeed appear to adapt, arriving with good anti-armour load-outs. Didn't know you could gain Thermal resistance in this way though.
 
- Able to teleport in front of me after I surrendered to an interdiction.
- Be firing basically right away (in range).
- Shoot me doing MASSIVE damage yet not seemingly taking a scratch themself.
- Able to move around in an unnatural way - they seemed to stay locked at my 2 O'Clock, irrespective of how I moved.
- Cause my UI to freeze so I couldn't even look at my right-side panel, let alone interact with it. (I know this bug of course, but some might not).
The first 2 parts of this seems like normal P2P to me. I’ve interdicted someone and waited a solid 10 seconds for them to drop. Being able to do “massive” damage is largely dependent on their weapons and your shields. Out of context, doesn’t seem suspicious to me. If anything you seem inexperienced, meaning no offence.
I’ve put a stupid amount of time into PvP.

Moving in an unnatural way, again, refer to my experience of range control and I didn’t understand it either to begin with. Doesn’t indicate cheats or foul play.

He caused my UI to freeze - Lol.
Game is good.

You will always take heat for logging out during combat. I’m not going to go any further into that because it’s clear you’re not an open type player. Sometimes things go wrong and though you might feel justified, they may not agree.
 
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@Northpin - That build is a one-trick pony though right?

Nah. I’ll try get the guy in here to answer himself.

The build is a bug exploit - it shows some crazy thermal resists while there is not a single Thermal HRP in there, only 9 Kinetic HRP (which are raising the thermal resists more than raising Kinetic - which is red flag no.1) and 4 Explosive HRP (and by adding those 4, the thermal resists are jumping from 30000 to 70000+ - red flag no.2)

If a such build is really puling those numbers (in game), the correct approach is to report it to FDev and refrain from using it.
Not to frag CMDRs inside stations.


However, as i said - it could be only a Coriolis bug, and not an ingame bug - unless we get someone to actually build it and provide a video of the numbers from the ship itself


The flip side of this is when you're accused of stuff due to game bugs.

Yes, i've read a report here on the forums from someone with a bad connection in CQC, who got themselves reported for cheating and got banned.
They appealed, and eventually their account was restored 1-2 weeks later on.

And i also witnessed bad instancing with player ships and npc ships teleporting all over.
However, this has nothing to do with players pulling some apparent impossible tricks while in a good instance
 
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