Powerplay The truth about the 5th Column

CMDR_Baldr

C
The 5th Column (5C) has become a serious issue in ED. With powers being subjected to it nearly every cycle.
This is currently the only mechanic available in ED to harm a Power. This mechanic unfortunately has a very damaging effect on the Power that is subjected to it and there is no internal defense against it.

This is just to explain the mechanic as I understand it:
The systems targeted by the 5C are systems with negative income for the subjected Power thus reducing there available Command Capital (CC) each cycle.
Reduced CC effects the expansion possibilities of the Power. But the most damaging effect is that a Power can be more easily pushed into turmoil. If the Power cannot get out of turmoil, which is then more difficult with the reduced CC, it will lose a control system or more. Depending on the deficit. The problem is that the Power then loses the control system with the highest upkeep and this is almost certainly a high profit control system(AND THE TURMOIL BUG IS NOT HELPING). The result after the system is lost that the CC for the Power is then reduced even further. Causing the Power to stay in turmoil or needing to work harder to get a positive CC balance. The Power could fall into a terrible spiral and lose almost all it has worked for.

Offensive 5C
When a player/group defects to an opposing Power and push a negative income onto the Power.

Defensive 5C
When a player/group that is subject to a an Offensive 5C, defects to a smaller Power to push the Offensive 5C system onto the smaller Power.
If the Defensive 5C can out-prep the Offensive 5C the small Power has gained an expansion worth even less to small Power than the recipients of the Offensive 5C.
Now it can be argued that the triggers is then stacked against the small Power actually getting that system, but the fact that the negative system was on there prep list blocked the small power from getting a positive system on their list.

I believe there is a place for sabotage(5C) but it needs to be done with a governed mechanism.

The aim of this thread is to be a beacon for FDev so that they can see something is wrong and that we are at a tipping point which could result in all the organized groups to leave PP behind.
So lets keep all the comments in one mega thread and force them to listen, but most importantly to REACT to our concerns.

I'm linking all the other discussions about 5C here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182522&highlight=column (Some good suggestions in here)
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182240&highlight=column
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182712
*Any thing I missed or got wrong let me know and I'll fix it.
 
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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver
One possible way of (partly) dealing with 5C could be the following :


  • Have a voting system in game for preps/expansion (like in one of the dev ideas). it good because it allows some amount of coms (i.e. this system is terrible, this one is good)
  • Have the merits be delivered to the players at the end of PP. (at the cycle tick)
  • Tie the merits received from each PP activity to the % of positive votes for each activities, so if some activity has 80% positive votes, get you normal merits, if it has 20% positive vote, get nothing (i.e. you are prep a system people think is bad, well no luck to you).
 

Trader38

Trader38
Rating is the result of acting on behalf of your power, keeping 50% when defecting is rediculous. Defecting Empire to Empire or Federation to Federation i could understand but realistically you should lose ALL merits when defecting. As it stands 5C can achieve 20k merits conducting their abhorent behavior then defect and still get 50Mcr to pay for their actions.
Reduce the merits to zero on defection and the weekly payout to 10Mcr or 15Mcr for rate 5 would make the actions of 5C more difficult to achieve and a lot less attractive.

Additionally, whilst for the Alliance you could understand having an impotent Prime Minister, any dictatorship power would see the dictator immediately veto any prep/expansion into a bad system however such an in-game mechanic does not exist thus making 5C's actions potent and powerful against all factions.
 

Arry

Arry
Is the 5th column mechanic a designed part of the power play mechanics, or did evolve as a method of game play?
 

Szyslak22

S
FDEV absolutely needs to give powers a way to oppose preparations that is 1:1 effective against the people pushing the prep. If a power has enough CC for multiple preparations, then it requires an absurd amount of effort to keep a bad prep off the list and thus becoming an expansion candidate.

This is a huge design oversight, and the reason that this garbage 5th column tactic is so effective. I'm all for allowing saboteurs, but opposing their effort needs to have an equal weight.

If preparation is done by bringing documents to the system, then why can't preparation be opposed by removing those documents and taking them back to a control system? Same allotments, same timers, same distance. It doesn't remove 5th columning, but it gives you an equally weighted method of combating it.

It really, really bothers me that FDEV doesn't see the current situation as a problem.
 

lefty1117

L
They should use the nomination system for picking systems to be prepared in the previous cycle, and in following cycle only the top x winning prep systems can be actually prepared.
 
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