The Wasted Potential of ED

[Crumly]

no thats old gen happiness right there. next gen happiness is go fetch a ball, heres indicator towards ball, heres companion pointing towards ball, heres spell that shows you illuminated path right towards ball, ball itself is unavoidable and has a red pin floating in the sky above it pointing to it.
elite is old game with old people playing it we love learning something new in a game we have been playing for 10 years.
larning new things, researching what you dont know, trying new things, failing miserably and trying again... is all part of what makes elite. good or bad is a point of view, but thats elite. do you want to be elite too?
finding laser in high tech systems, same as heating up when cruising too close to star, is part of the ye olde mans common sense.


i saw the 10 year old video pulled up. thats nice. pull up your picture from before 10yrs and tell me what didnt change (ironically for most of the playerbase it wouldnt be much [for reason mentioned bit up] but you got me, right? ^^ )


theres one thing id like to know: why the ship interior people dont play star citizen? with all due respect. just wondering. i would like to see the reasons why they dont play the game that has everything they want and need, the AAA title with all the things that elite is missing, things that if elite had them it would be the AAA title.
id guess if those reasons were provided, maybe there could be a little reflection if those things arent leverage enough for the lack of few m^2 of walkable corridors in elite. if nothing else.
me personally id love to take my space legs to cockpit, make a coffee and sit down to my chair. for carrier captains to have decorations in their office. but pottering around in my ship isnt why im playing a 1:1 milky way sandbox and imo acting like its the holy grail of elites development is a bit outstretched.

Elite isn't just for old people. How do I know? Most old people are dead and there's still alot of players in ED. It came out in 2014 not 1984. I played video games through the 80's and 90's and until today as well, and I did like figuring things out.
What's going on here in my conversation was some guy made a long ass post containing "people just want to play the game without any real effort". And I made a snarky comment about how obvious that SHOULD be. Then people started replying, trying to explain to me how I should want to put in some "real effort" so I can try to enjoy a video game.
I want you to understand that finding a laser and a high tech system, that's pretty much the most basic ass example I could find about how annoying the game can be. Do I need to make a list of 50 things that are NOT intuitive? Like, do I really need to make that list? I'm pretty sure you can do it without my help. Everyday someone is asking what a kill warrant scanner is/does. I seen a guy complaining about shooting NPC's by accident in a RES and getting a bounty. He literally shot non criminal ships and was confused about the outcome. So what are you trying to say exactly? The game should be hard to figure out because you like it that way?

 

[MUTILADOR]

let me just

no thats old gen happiness right there. next gen happiness is go fetch a ball, heres indicator towards ball, heres companion pointing towards ball, heres spell that shows you illuminated path right towards ball, ball itself is unavoidable and has a red pin floating in the sky above it pointing to it.
elite is old game with old people playing it we love learning something new in a game we have been playing for 10 years.
larning new things, researching what you dont know, trying new things, failing miserably and trying again... is all part of what makes elite. good or bad is a point of view, but thats elite. do you want to be elite too?
finding laser in high tech systems, same as heating up when cruising too close to star, is part of the ye olde mans common sense.


i saw the 10 year old video pulled up. thats nice. pull up your picture from before 10yrs and tell me what didnt change (ironically for most of the playerbase it wouldnt be much [for reason mentioned bit up] but you got me, right? ^^ )


theres one thing id like to know: why the ship interior people dont play star citizen? with all due respect. just wondering. i would like to see the reasons why they dont play the game that has everything they want and need, the AAA title with all the things that elite is missing, things that if elite had them it would be the AAA title.
id guess if those reasons were provided, maybe there could be a little reflection if those things arent leverage enough for the lack of few m^2 of walkable corridors in elite. if nothing else.
me personally id love to take my space legs to cockpit, make a coffee and sit down to my chair. for carrier captains to have decorations in their office. but pottering around in my ship isnt why im playing a 1:1 milky way sandbox and imo acting like its the holy grail of elites development is a bit outstretched.

theres one thing id like to know: why the ship interior people dont play star citizen?

Your question is very delusional friend...
Most (if not all) of us who are looking for immersion in space games already played SC. What's more, many already left E.D years ago for lacking this type of immersion.
I also play S.C (only for its interior of ships and piloting) because in the rest it still needs to polish its mechanics (lousy optimization).
I play ED because I like its universe and its mechanics and because it is a finished game.
My hopes are now in starfield, because apparently E.D decided to stagnate. Having more potential than all of the aforementioned, it has not been able to manage itself or listen to its own community.

 

[Crumly]

Well... yes?

If you asked "where can i find the best fittings for my ship?" and your options were Agricultural, Service, Extraction, Industrial and High Tech... it seems pretty intuitive that the latter two would have what you need... and in general that's true, unless you're hitting up some backwater with less than a million people in it. But again... pretty intuitive to me

Sure... but did 3rd party apps fix that for you? Doesn't sound like it, and i don't think you'll find anyone who claims that 3rd party apps aren't necessary is also claiming the UI and UX isn't pretty crummy in places.

It definitely is crummy... but 3rd party apps don't fix that.

I never used them... my region of space back then had very low traffic, so any info was always more than a week out of date. Also a lot of claims were simply wrong. Thus, those sites were pretty useless.

It was turned on by default.

But disabling/enabling modules and such.. just explored the menus for a minute and messed around with things. Intuitively, all the columns and stuff are labelled, so it was pretty easy to follow the bouncing ball.

Doing things generates heat. Stars are hot

But when fuel scooping, the fact both my fuel and heat are displayed is a big hint i need to watch my heat when I'm doing that.

i turned on supercruise and saw temperature skyrocket suddenly... turned it off and got away from the star which i knew to be a source of heat... noticed that spooling my FSD still made heat go up even away from the star but not as dramatically... then put two and two together.

Overheating at a star is hardly fatal unless you're doing something really crazy. I definitely lost a few tonnes of cargo over time to overheating til i learned proper management. But hey, constant learning is fun.

Watching YouTube and reading forums doesn't help you learn. It just gives you the info without the understanding.

So, something that got removed was needing to scan a ship to see if it was wanted before attacking it. If you jumped the gun, you'd get an assault fine. That was a great way of teaching how to scan ships.

Likewise old exploration had you "point and wait"... despite how awful that mechanism was, it still taught you scanning.

Unfortunately players sooked about both and now you can just shoot straight away, or use the fss... so of course players don't know how to scan a ship (or anything)... the literal reason to do it was removed from the game, and not only that, it was requested by players.

But again, i don't think anyone is saying the UI doesn't have its flaws, and creates a bad UX at times. But saying you can't play the game without 3rd party tools, without an unreasonable impost on the game experience, is at best hyperbole, at worst just plain wrong.

I want to explain to you that I picked some of the most basic examples of things I remember having to think through and solve. I didn't want to "solve" anything. I wanted to play the damn game and enjoy it. To this day when I play I have to alt tab to see what I need for my on foot goals before I decide to loot it or not.

 

[Shadowsnog]

The game should be hard to figure out because you like it that way?

well... actually kinda yes. i think there are a lot of arcade-y space games and i would like if there was like one game that is difficult. are you saying the game should be an no-effort no-brain walkthrough just because you cant learn some gameplay aspect thousands of people before you figured out just fine?
i dont really want it to sound that harsh. i like this game and i would like if more people with inclinations towards space sims would come and see and play and hopefully like the game too. but not all games are the same, not all games are supposed to be the same and sometimes, when you are unhappy in one, theres another game just for you right around the corner. sometimes, methinks, is okay to say this game might not be good for you. a point to consider, perhaps.

when i say old: im in my 30s and i consider myself old gamer. in elite dangerous terms i could be considered a youngling. so yes, i think there is some consideration to be made towards the main playerbase (and the people that "built this town"). but i dont want to gatekeep anything. nor do i think does majority of elite playerbase. quite in contrary actually.
however that doesnt change the whole "zeitgeist" of the game, which was based and built around something a bit different than what we see and are able to play nowadays.
elite is not just another teen movie.

now try and imagine elite without all the 3rd party tools and imagine that as the intended gameplay. wild right? and yet... we got so accustomed to 3rd party tools making our lives that much easier, that we dont even consider ourself "cheating" the game, right? and yet...
now try and imagine a pretty small team for a gigantic project. you set up some plan, some expectations, some dev road to follow. you prepare some content, some progress, some tools, some assests... and then someone makes a tool, an app, a strategy how to "cheese" some part of the gameplay and make it much easier. you dont want to obstruct your players from having fun, god forbid you hindering their honest effort and work and development, but yet they managed to disrail 4 years of your plans with one small bugfeature utility. perhaps an overlook. but after a time you will realize that you will have to make an account for these kind of things in your dev planning. just because you dont want to shackle your players into your narrow sighted expectations and want to celebrate their creativity instead. which is wonderful.
now try and imagine a pretty small team working on a gigantic project, while gung-ho players are always breathing at your neck with something, some way how to "cheese" your game. you start adjusting your game dev plant to account for this. and there is now a management decision to be made: since we have limited resources do we try to keep up with all the tools the players are already making at exceptional quality? do we try to dev and implement tools and devices and thingamajiks that the players already have, even tho from their own making (or of superior quality )? or do we accept these things (since already widely spread and effective) as valid tools for gameplay and focus our efforts on some other, perhaps more meaningful things.
imo elite dev team is threading the needle between making the game affordable, playable for newbies and as well still exciting for people invested in this frenchise for almost 30yrs. a game for vanilla hardcore people, that just install the game and dont look anything up, dont ask for help, dont play multiplayer, dont use anything outside the game; and players that would pay just to have a cockpit in a different colour or a covas to have a different voice.
not an easy task.

me myself im still new to elite. im not immune to its flaws. i get frustrated with it to the point of not playing it for like a day. it happens like once a month and i still come back.

there are many many many ways how to enjoy this game. there are some ways how to not enjoy it.
penultimately

I also play S.C (only for its interior of ships and piloting) because in the rest it still needs to polish its mechanics (lousy optimization).
I play ED because I like its universe and its mechanics and because it is a finished game.

i find it ok? i play elite for one thing and other game for other things. as i said: is the pros of elite really really really not enough to make up for the lack of interiors?
a little effort to try and shift your pov a bit perhaps:
did you spend the same money on sc as elite? did everyone? are these in the same category in regards of funding and dev team size? just these two things. if not, are there not some considerations for us to be made?
would ship interior be that big breakthrough in all of elites content?
or perhaps otherwise: consider the parts of elite that you like. which one would you sacrifice for ship interiors?
small dev team, small funding, cant have it all mate. one or the other, make one go... space legs? srv? slf? how about deleting all guardian and thargoid content for a 5m^2 of a hall. you could make a coffee tho!
extrapolarization to make a point.


speaking as someone with experience in managing mmorpg that gets 3rd party tools with much higher efficiency than ingame tools.
it screws everything and unless you want to antagonize your playerbase you have to try to keep up.
its
not
that
easy

let me tell you just one more thing: im nearing 2k hours in this game. to this day i have accomodated 88 bookmarks with all the different sites and guides and tools + a few programs that make my life easier. and yet occasionally i shut all of the extras off, board some small ship and have loads of fun playing the game "raw". the game is very much playable at any level of assistance you want to take, none included. the mentioned "old" design is optional. perhaps you are just expecting admiral level of knowledge of the game from yourself, while you would be very much allright with a pioneer one (or something ).
once again

 

[Planewalker]

I play ED because I like its universe and its mechanics and because it is a finished game.

And luckily it is not SC, so there is that at least.

And I made a snarky comment about how obvious that SHOULD be.

What does snarky roast taste like?
-the same as roasted snark.

 

[Jmanis]

I want to explain to you that I picked some of the most basic examples of things I remember having to think through and solve. I didn't want to "solve" anything. I wanted to play the damn game and enjoy it. To this day when I play I have to alt tab to see what I need for my on foot goals before I decide to loot it or not.

Not doubting that's your experience.

Highly doubtful that's an experience shared by everyone, or even the majority of players.

You say you don't want to "solve" things. I was explaining to you that none of the things I described needed any sort of "help"; they were obvious.

Again, I ack the UI and overall UX isn't great... but that's more of an overall-experience-clunkiness, not a "can't work out how to do this without a guide".

I personally cannot comprehend how or why you need to alt-tab constantly for your "on foot goals". If your goal is to just "play the damn game and enjoy it", frankly, you're doing it wrong. I'm confident in saying that because it sounds like you've made some daft engineer "shopping list" as a result of reading some pretty awful guide saying to do that.

If you want to just "play the damn game" then do that. Log on, take some missions and do that, or go pixel-hunting for exobio or whatever floats your boat.

Engineering is not required... and I say that as someone who's happily doing everything including high CZs with mostly-G2 stuff that i bought from a shop (in Odyssey, since that's what you've mentioned). Every now and then I go "Huh, well that activity was fun, but it'd be nice if my weapons punched a bit harder..." so I go to the upgrades at the shop and see what I need. Then, as I roam around, I make sure to pick those things up as I see it.

No shopping list, no guide, no alt-tabbing. I just do it... and I can't comprehend what enjoyment people get from engaging the game as a widget-collection process alone. They don't want to do missions, they don't want to explore, they don't want to trade, they don't want to do anything like that. They just want to collect widgets as fast as possible to engineer their gear. If you don't want to just jump on and do the activities you enjoy, why do you need to fill some engineering shopping list?

Like I said before, the activities don't magically change once you've got engineering; they stay exactly the same. So if you're not going on and doing them now, why will engineering change that?

 

[Crumly]

Well, much as I enjoyed the suggestion that perhaps I didn't know what I was saying, I can assure you that I did in fact know exactly what I'd said.

Did you read what I'd said though? I'm not entirely sure given:


Where've you got this thing about spending hours on youtube from? I certainly didn't do any of that.


I spent months playing without using any out of game resources whatsoever. Then the only tool I used for quite a while was the forums as an out-of-game comms tool for collaborating with other cmdrs on in-game stuff. It was a long time before I used anything else. I did watch a few YT channels for a bit, but that was mainly about in-game events and discoveries, that type of stuff, not guides.


I managed fine. Noting down what was stocked where, taking educated guesses based on economy type, and most of all I would always be doing something else at the same time, usually running a couple of missions or at least doing a bit of trading.


See, that's the thing, I've got a huge amount out of the game in my time. And the best times out of that was that early period.

I started playing not long before 2.1, so the introduction of the Engineers was right in the thick of that as well.

My only encounter with grind was when I followed some out-of-game advice on what was supposedly the best way to get a clipper. It wasn't the best way at all, and I went back to doing things my own way and didn't grind again after that, and my overall enjoyment of the game went back up again as a consequence.

I could go on (lots), but ultimately, yes, I had a great time!


Just to be clear here, I am certainly not slating anyone for using 3rd party tools, and I have used them myself, particularly on my 2nd and 3rd accounts. My issue is with the perpetuation of the falsehood that they are essential, and with the misrepresentation of the game not being made as easy as some would like as being some kind of universal missed opportunity.

I never said they are essential. You said players didn't want to "put in real effort", and I said "no duh". You didn't watch youtube. I did. Hours of it. Because whether it was learning which was your ship had to point when docking, or how to request docking, or how to do anything. I'm not talking about this is a flight sim game versus arcade type game.
Anyone who plays this game for more than 20 hours IS putting in "real effort" because this game has an extreme learning curve. Trying to figure out where to buy a laser, that is a fail. You shouldn't have to figure out anything. This isn't a puzzle game (well, they have added many puzzle elements, like unlocking stuff, guardian things, so I guess that's not totally true), this is an action game.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

That's easy, it's in alpha after 10 years. CIG inspire less confidence and credibility with me than Frontier.


I used to be convinced that Frontier would get where they were supposed to be going sooner than CIG. However, a decade later ...

a hologram flickers on ... 'Help me Bethesda, you're my only hope!'

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

@Crumly.
You do understand what a game is, right?
It's something that you need to learn how to play.
Taking shortcuts won't make you understand how the game works because you've only learnt a very small element of it.
This is why you don't understand it, because you've circumvented the natural learning process.
It was your choice, but don't blame the game.

 

[metatheurgist]

This is the problem with the "fun" argument. There is no universal definition of fun. I despise the money fountains but apparently that has made the game easy fun for others.

There are however games that you should play and games that you should stop playing because they are clearly not marketed at you.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

I like Elite Dangerous

 

[Sera Scratch]

Also hate how Power Play could have been an interesting way to engage with the universe/story but it's failed by some factions offering better modules. Like Aisling having the literal best shields in the game, meanwhile Torval has a mining laser that does ship damage? Not remotely comparable. I forget who but someone has a cannon which aren't even worth taking on ships so also not worth pledging. If you want to roleplay or do anything with power play with a faction you enjoy, you'll be missing out on better modules.

Kinda the same with ships. Empire has the Cutter, best ship in the game according to most. Locked behind a faction rank so if you want to pretend to be loyal to the Fed then you're screwed. Needed to get these gripes off my chest.

 

[Crumly]

well... actually kinda yes. i think there are a lot of arcade-y space games and i would like if there was like one game that is difficult. are you saying the game should be an no-effort no-brain walkthrough just because you cant learn some gameplay aspect thousands of people before you figured out just fine?
i dont really want it to sound that harsh. i like this game and i would like if more people with inclinations towards space sims would come and see and play and hopefully like the game too. but not all games are the same, not all games are supposed to be the same and sometimes, when you are unhappy in one, theres another game just for you right around the corner. sometimes, methinks, is okay to say this game might not be good for you. a point to consider, perhaps.

when i say old: im in my 30s and i consider myself old gamer. in elite dangerous terms i could be considered a youngling. so yes, i think there is some consideration to be made towards the main playerbase (and the people that "built this town"). but i dont want to gatekeep anything. nor do i think does majority of elite playerbase. quite in contrary actually.
however that doesnt change the whole "zeitgeist" of the game, which was based and built around something a bit different than what we see and are able to play nowadays.
elite is not just another teen movie.

now try and imagine elite without all the 3rd party tools and imagine that as the intended gameplay. wild right? and yet... we got so accustomed to 3rd party tools making our lives that much easier, that we dont even consider ourself "cheating" the game, right? and yet...
now try and imagine a pretty small team for a gigantic project. you set up some plan, some expectations, some dev road to follow. you prepare some content, some progress, some tools, some assests... and then someone makes a tool, an app, a strategy how to "cheese" some part of the gameplay and make it much easier. you dont want to obstruct your players from having fun, god forbid you hindering their honest effort and work and development, but yet they managed to disrail 4 years of your plans with one small bugfeature utility. perhaps an overlook. but after a time you will realize that you will have to make an account for these kind of things in your dev planning. just because you dont want to shackle your players into your narrow sighted expectations and want to celebrate their creativity instead. which is wonderful.
now try and imagine a pretty small team working on a gigantic project, while gung-ho players are always breathing at your neck with something, some way how to "cheese" your game. you start adjusting your game dev plant to account for this. and there is now a management decision to be made: since we have limited resources do we try to keep up with all the tools the players are already making at exceptional quality? do we try to dev and implement tools and devices and thingamajiks that the players already have, even tho from their own making (or of superior quality )? or do we accept these things (since already widely spread and effective) as valid tools for gameplay and focus our efforts on some other, perhaps more meaningful things.
imo elite dev team is threading the needle between making the game affordable, playable for newbies and as well still exciting for people invested in this frenchise for almost 30yrs. a game for vanilla hardcore people, that just install the game and dont look anything up, dont ask for help, dont play multiplayer, dont use anything outside the game; and players that would pay just to have a cockpit in a different colour or a covas to have a different voice.
not an easy task.

me myself im still new to elite. im not immune to its flaws. i get frustrated with it to the point of not playing it for like a day. it happens like once a month and i still come back.

there are many many many ways how to enjoy this game. there are some ways how to not enjoy it.
penultimately

I am pretty ok with a space flight simulator being difficult to master in regards to piloting the ship. I have played the game since the month it launched, and have been mostly ok with the stupid that makes it annoying to play, like spending a full minute running from concourse to my ship, entering my ship, waiting for the launch pad to take me to the surface, and releasing my ship, spending time flying out of the station. In other space games, that whole sequence could be completed in like 3 seconds. (this is just for interested sake, not advocating this was some amazing game:

Source: https://youtu.be/C_f3mWHgGKU?t=47
, or that ED should change), but I'm not keen on spending an unusual amount of time trying to replace my IRL with figuring out a boring part of game. I will spend years learning to be a better pilot, or exploring the black (not what I do but still a compelling thing to spend time doing), or relaxing flying around, or whatever, spend a lifetime playing. Not spent trying to figure out how the basic mechanics of operating the game do. I have had alot of fun landing at bases and doing a stealth mission on foot and flying away. Other years I tried to spend a fair bit of time in SRV. I did alot of bounty hunting 6-7 years ago, back when 10million/hour was really doing good (and targets spun in space sometimes). I didn't spend much of my 2500 hours learning why a system should sell lasers but only has ing turreted ones or doesn't have the right size or doesn't have ANY, even though I thought it would, and I spent like 10 minutes getting there, or it was a planetary port.
I do really appreciate people having fun and appreciating parts of the different. Personally, for me, the gameplay loops of shooting stuff, scanning stuff, interdicting, and now on foot missions, those are the parts of the game I like. Trying to figure out how the BGS affects module availability or maybe I should have spent some insane amount of time flying from station to station to system to system looking for where to sell void opals. i could have used a pen & paper to write down how much each station was buying void opals for and spent a day or two finding out how much the max value was for them? wow, damn, that sounds like the most fun. Never mind the entertaining core mining, I could spend MANY MANY HOURS finding a spot to sell the stuff!!!!!!

@Crumly.
You do understand what a game is, right?
It's something that you need to learn how to play.
Taking shortcuts won't make you understand how the game works because you've only learnt a very small element of it.
This is why you don't understand it, because you've circumvented the natural learning process.
It was your choice, but don't blame the game.

Sir, you don't know almost a thing about how I've played the game since January 2015.
Why do I "need" to learn to play, you and I aren't talking about the same thing when we say "play". I think things like combat, mining, exploration, missions, THOSE are things I consider playing. I've spent MANY hours trying to learn to pilot my ship effectively, and am happy to do so.

Would you like to make a bet with me, I am unsure if you are making a claim on your in game abilities or not, so if you aren't willing to, that's ok, but it seems like you are claiming to understanding the game, and advocating that I should do the same.

Let's pick you a random system in the bubble, in a stock sidewinder (no engineering, but upgrade it's modules as you wish, after starting the challenge), and without going to I Brestla or something like that, see how long it takes you buy an Anaconda and get it fully A-rated (no engineering). Just using in game tools and your knowledge.

I'll do the same, using whatever websites I can find, and we can measure how much time each of us spent, and we can survey who feels satisfied with their time spent vs reward, who encountered disappointments and frustrations, probably inexplicable ones. I bet I could do it in 1/10 the time, unless it was a freak luck with the right stations right nearby. And I bet I would feel like it took about the Right amount of my life to complete.

You asked me "You do understand what a game is, right?". Yeah, it's something meant to be enjoyed. Lots of room to learn the gameplay loops, not how to operate the game ( i don't mean learning keybinds either)

 

[MUTILADOR]

bueno... en realidad un poco sí. Creo que hay muchos juegos espaciales tipo arcade y me gustaría que hubiera un juego que fuera difícil. ¿Estás diciendo que el juego debería ser un recorrido sin esfuerzo y sin cerebro solo porque no puedes aprender algunos aspectos del juego de miles de personas antes de que te des cuenta?
Realmente no quiero que suene tan duro. Me gusta este juego y me gustaría que más personas con inclinaciones hacia los simuladores espaciales vinieran a ver y jugar y, con suerte, también les gustara el juego. pero no todos los juegos son iguales, no se supone que todos los juegos sean iguales ya veces, cuando no estás contento con uno, hay otro juego justo para ti a la vuelta de la esquina. a veces, creo, está bien decir que este juego podría no ser bueno para ti. un punto a considerar, quizás.

cuando digo viejo: tengo 30 años y me considero un viejo jugador. en términos peligrosos de élite, podría ser considerado un jovencito. así que sí, creo que hay que tener en cuenta la base de jugadores principal (y las personas que "construyeron esta ciudad"). pero no quiero vigilar nada. ni creo que la mayoría de la base de jugadores de élite. bastante al contrario en realidad.
Sin embargo, eso no cambia todo el "espíritu de la época" del juego, que se basó y construyó en torno a algo un poco diferente de lo que vemos y podemos jugar hoy en día.
Elite no es solo otra película para adolescentes.

ahora intente imaginar la élite sin todas las herramientas de terceros e imagínelo como el juego previsto. salvaje verdad? y, sin embargo... nos acostumbramos tanto a las herramientas de terceros que nos hacen la vida mucho más fácil, que ni siquiera nos consideramos "engañando" al juego, ¿verdad? y todavía...
ahora trata de imaginar un equipo bastante pequeño para un proyecto gigantesco. estableces algún plan, algunas expectativas, algún camino de desarrollo a seguir. preparas algún contenido, algún progreso, algunas herramientas, algunos recursos... y luego alguien hace una herramienta, una aplicación, una estrategia sobre cómo "quesar" alguna parte del juego y hacerlo mucho más fácil. no quieres impedir que tus jugadores se diviertan, Dios no permita que obstaculices su esfuerzo honesto, su trabajo y su desarrollo, pero lograron desbaratar 4 años de tus planes con una pequeña utilidad de función de error. quizás un pase por alto. pero después de un tiempo te darás cuenta de que tendrás que tener en cuenta este tipo de cosas en tu planificación de desarrollo. solo porque no quiere encadenar a sus jugadores a sus expectativas de visión estrecha y quiere celebrar su creatividad en su lugar. que es maravilloso
ahora intente imaginar un equipo bastante pequeño trabajando en un proyecto gigantesco, mientras que los jugadores entusiastas siempre están respirando en su cuello con algo, de alguna manera cómo "queso" su juego. comienzas a ajustar tu planta de desarrollo de juegos para dar cuenta de esto. y ahora hay que tomar una decisión de gestión: dado que tenemos recursos limitados, ¿tratamos de mantenernos al día con todas las herramientas que los jugadores ya están creando con una calidad excepcional? ¿Tratamos de desarrollar e implementar herramientas, dispositivos y cosas que los jugadores ya tienen, aunque sean de su propia creación (o de calidad superior ag )? o aceptamos estas cosas (dado que ya son ampliamente difundidas y efectivas) como herramientas válidas para el juego y enfocamos nuestros esfuerzos en otras cosas, quizás más significativas.
El equipo de desarrollo de élite de imo está enhebrando la aguja entre hacer que el juego sea asequible, jugable para los novatos y, al mismo tiempo, emocionante para las personas que han invertido en este estilo francés durante casi 30 años. un juego para la gente de Vanilla Hardcore, que simplemente instalan el juego y no buscan nada, no piden ayuda, no juegan multijugador, no usan nada fuera del juego; y jugadores que pagarían solo por tener una cabina de otro color o unas covas por tener una voz diferente.
no es una tarea fácil.

yo mismo todavía soy nuevo en la élite. No soy inmune a sus defectos. Me frustro con él hasta el punto de no jugarlo por un día. Sucede como una vez al mes y todavía vuelvo.

hay muchas muchas muchas maneras de cómo disfrutar de este juego. hay algunas maneras de cómo no disfrutarlo.
penúltimamente


lo encuentro bien? juego elite para una cosa y otro juego para otras cosas. como dije: ¿las ventajas de la élite realmente no son suficientes para compensar la falta de interiores?
un pequeño esfuerzo para tratar de cambiar un poco tu punto de vista tal vez:
gastaste el mismo dinero en sc que en elite? todos? ¿están en la misma categoría en cuanto a financiación y tamaño del equipo de desarrollo? solo estas dos cosas. si no, ¿no hay que hacernos algunas consideraciones?
¿Sería el interior del barco ese gran avance en todo el contenido de élite?
o quizás de otra manera: considere las partes de élite que le gustan. ¿Cuál sacrificarías por los interiores de los barcos?
pequeño equipo de desarrollo, pequeña financiación, no puedo tenerlo todo amigo. uno o el otro, haz que uno vaya... ¿piernas espaciales? Srv? slf? ¿Qué tal eliminar todo el contenido de guardián y thargoid para 5m ^ 2 de una sala? podrías hacer un café aunque!
extrapolarización para hacer un punto.


hablando como alguien con experiencia en la gestión de mmorpg que obtiene herramientas de terceros con una eficiencia mucho mayor que las herramientas dentro del juego.
arruina todo y, a menos que quieras antagonizar a tu base de jugadores, debes tratar de mantenerte al día.
es
no
eso
fácil

déjame decirte una cosa más: estoy cerca de las 2k horas en este juego. hasta el día de hoy he acomodado 88 marcadores con todos los diferentes sitios y guías y herramientas + algunos programas que me hacen la vida más fácil. y, sin embargo, de vez en cuando apago todos los extras, subo a un barco pequeño y me divierto mucho jugando el juego "en bruto". el juego es muy jugable en cualquier nivel de asistencia que desee tomar, ninguno incluido. el diseño "antiguo" mencionado es opcional. tal vez solo esperas un nivel de conocimiento del juego de almirante de ti mismo, mientras que estarías muy bien con uno pionero (o algo así ag ).
una vez más

aren't the elite perks really necessary to make up for the lack of interiors?
-Enough until another more immersive space game appears to fill that empty space that every fan of space games has.

did you spend the same money on sc as on elite? all?
-I think so.

Are they in the same category in terms of funding and development team size? just these two things. if not, shouldn't we make some considerations?
- Hello Games has a much smaller development team than Frontier and updates its content 10 times more in a year than ED 4, games like Spacebourne 2 created by one man and with much less resources too. No need to compare everything with SC

Would the interior of the ship be that breakthrough in all the elite content?
- That opinion is already personal and depends on each one. (although I am one of those who gives their vote for ship interiors as a priority over other more complex things such as atmospheric planets or new ships)


Or perhaps in another way - consider the elite parts that you like. Which would you sacrifice for ship interiors?
- Why do you think you should sacrifice some?... It's not necessary.

 

[Planewalker]

( i don't mean learning keybinds either)

I kinda suspect that the reasons the default controls in elite are...odd, is to make sure players take their time to sift through and thus learn the keybinds while hopefully understanding them in the process. -this is just my personal observation as the graphics options also have okayish descriptors.


From the get-go elite struck me as an oldskool textbook example of RTFM+exploration even of game systems, but maybe that's just me.

I've also played since 2015, and i've watched some youtube videos not about gameplay. Used eddb once or thrice.

What i did do was read the manual, and then look at what different types of economies usually offered.



There are three rites of passage in elite way as i see it:

The registration/launcher.
The controls and grokking them.
The game and it's logic on it's own terms.

 

[Cmdr Derzelat]

Not doubting that's your experience.

Highly doubtful that's an experience shared by everyone, or even the majority of players.

You say you don't want to "solve" things. I was explaining to you that none of the things I described needed any sort of "help"; they were obvious.

Again, I ack the UI and overall UX isn't great... but that's more of an overall-experience-clunkiness, not a "can't work out how to do this without a guide".

I personally cannot comprehend how or why you need to alt-tab constantly for your "on foot goals". If your goal is to just "play the damn game and enjoy it", frankly, you're doing it wrong. I'm confident in saying that because it sounds like you've made some daft engineer "shopping list" as a result of reading some pretty awful guide saying to do that.

If you want to just "play the damn game" then do that. Log on, take some missions and do that, or go pixel-hunting for exobio or whatever floats your boat.

Engineering is not required... and I say that as someone who's happily doing everything including high CZs with mostly-G2 stuff that i bought from a shop (in Odyssey, since that's what you've mentioned). Every now and then I go "Huh, well that activity was fun, but it'd be nice if my weapons punched a bit harder..." so I go to the upgrades at the shop and see what I need. Then, as I roam around, I make sure to pick those things up as I see it.

No shopping list, no guide, no alt-tabbing. I just do it... and I can't comprehend what enjoyment people get from engaging the game as a widget-collection process alone. They don't want to do missions, they don't want to explore, they don't want to trade, they don't want to do anything like that. They just want to collect widgets as fast as possible to engineer their gear. If you don't want to just jump on and do the activities you enjoy, why do you need to fill some engineering shopping list?

Like I said before, the activities don't magically change once you've got engineering; they stay exactly the same. So if you're not going on and doing them now, why will engineering change that?

I guess its a "trail your own blaze" and a sandbox effect. I mean, lets say i am all in for combat, thats what i like from this game. Now, even for a g3-g4 engineering you are "obligated" to step off your own trail doing things that you dont enjoy ( next word to describe it would be grind) like for example exploration (engineering requrements) or planet farming, when all you want is combat. Now taking a random timeframe to analyse, you realise that you "trail some other blazes" more that what you would like. Obtaining materials for engineering from what you enjoy doing would fix that and prevent "grind" installing. If i would be " obligated" through any mean to touch thargoid content i would drop this game in an instant cus i dont enjoy it, but it doesnt, so it suits me this way, however, engineering a ship doesnt allow that.
One can ask why would you engineer ships when combat mechanics are there even without need engineering.
The answer should be always that this is a sandbox and the mechanics are there so anyone can "trail your own blaze" without having 2 persons to do exact same thing to achieve same goals. All i say is that engineering or whatever mechanics should be tuned to allow every one to do what is advertised : the blaze thing. My two cents.

 

[Brrokk]

I like Elite Dangerous

Me too, I play it a lot!

 

[Jmanis]

I guess its a "trail your own blaze" and a sandbox effect. I mean, lets say i am all in for combat, thats what i like from this game. Now, even for a g3-g4 engineering you are "obligated" to step off your own trail doing things that you dont enjoy ( next word to describe it would be grind) like for example exploration (engineering requrements) or planet farming, when all you want is combat. Now taking a random timeframe to analyse, you realise that you "trail some other blazes" more that what you would like. Obtaining materials for engineering from what you enjoy doing would fix that and prevent "grind" installing. If i would be " obligated" through any mean to touch thargoid content i would drop this game in an instant cus i dont enjoy it, but it doesnt, so it suits me this way, however, engineering a ship doesnt allow that.
One can ask why would you engineer ships when combat mechanics are there even without need engineering.
The answer should be always that this is a sandbox and the mechanics are there so anyone can "trail your own blaze" without having 2 persons to do exact same thing to achieve same goals. All i say is that engineering or whatever mechanics should be tuned to allow every one to do what is advertised : the blaze thing. My two cents.

So... what's your point? Is it "Engineering is a grind"? Because that's not what I was addressing at all with my post.

Point I was addressing was the idea that you can't play the game without guides and 3rd party apps. That did extend into, paraphrasing, "I can't play the game without alt-tabbing to see what I need to collect on foot" which I think is a player-problem, not a game problem. I can do engineering (and collect the materials for it) just fine without having to alt-tab anywhere. If your goal is to just "get on and play the game"... you can also do that just fine without engineering.

I also disagree you're "obligated" or "required" to do any engineering or to step off your "own trail" with the sole exception of collecting Raw materials... but again, this is not the point of my post.

So to clarify...
If your point was "engineering is a grind and makes you do activities you don't want to do"... then I don't care about that in this context.
If your point is "engineering requires you to use 3rd party apps" (which I don't think was your point), then I think you're wrong.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I think the problem with picking up the initial game mechanics is a very common one in open-world games - there's so many things you could plausibly do, hundreds of modules in the outfitting, and no guidance at all as to what you should be doing. Equally, with so many combinations of possibilities, it's quite easy to become overpowered once you know what you're doing, so you end up with the difficulty curve being reversed from the traditional one - steep for the first bit, getting shallower as you progress.

The existing tutorials do a decent job of explaining the basics of moving, shooting, flying the ship and walking around. But then they stop abruptly. There's probably a need for an optional multi-stage tutorial mission once you've got into the game proper that just introduces the basics in-game - e.g. it'd get you to search the map for an Industrial system, fly there and buy some Animal Monitors, and then meet your contact - who, it turns out, only needs one of them and suggests you sell the rest at an Agricultural station. Your contact could potentially offer quite a long chain of missions introducing various modules, game mechanics, and so on - which you can always just ignore and do your own thing instead, of course.

"3rd-party" tools and tutorials don't tend to help because they're not aimed at beginners, they're aimed at people who've been playing the game extensively already and want to know how to get some particular task done as fast as possible (whether because it's a step on an intrinsic goal, or because they've got an extrinsic goal like "support this faction" or "win this system back from the Thargoids" where being more efficient is important to success)

Because how does ship interiors fix the fact there's, stuff all to do with a recon limpet, to pluck one under- utilised capability in the game?

Plausibly, ship interiors could add a few more uses for them - you'd find some derelict ships in a POI (surface or space) and can go inside to retrieve objects. Recon limpets could then let you assess which ones have the most valuable salvage before you go in, or extract access codes from the ship's computer core so you don't have to use a bunch of e-breaches when you get there.

I can think of all sorts of reasons to poke around other ships' interiors and ways it could be integrated with existing ship-flying mechanics. But is that the "wrong sort of ship interiors"?

 

[Northpin]

ship interiors...

To me Ship Interiors always meant My Ships' Interiors.

Having POIs with derelict ships doesn't necessarily mean a requirement to add Ships interiors, but a sort of several rooms in a ship-look-alike derelict.
I mean it could be much easier for them to add those more or less static assets, but without adding ship interiors for player owned ships.

For example current crashed ships for on-foot missions are featuring only Sidewinders and Eagles - and i see nobody complaining about the lack of variety - not as long they complete their missions (and maybe get their Power Regulators out of them too)
They could easily add some Conda (and maybe T9) derelicts with some make-believe inner rooms to explore and find some goodies - but without going through all the complication of having full featured interiors in flyable ships.