The year is 2020 and Elite Dangerous is still P2P. Let's discuss PvE and PvP servers.

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Just wanted to make another thread about how garbage the instancing and networking is in this game and how amazing it could be if Frontier decided to go with dedicated servers.

As much as I hate the idea of a PvE only server, if Frontier decided to finally get with the times and switch to dedicated servers, I think I would be totally onboard with a PvE and PvP server and ditch solo all together.
I would hope that they would add some things to make a PvP server more appealing as well but what do you guys think?
If Frontier just ditched the current model and made two dedicated servers, one for PvE only and one for PvP, how would you want it to work? If you're a solo only player, would you be ok with losing solo in favor of a dedicated PvE server?
If you're an open only PvPer, would you like to see something like this?
 

[VR] M4st0d0n

[VR] M4st0d0n
Regardless of how polarizing the following pvp vs pve debate this thread will degrade in, I think it's obvious the community as a whole would gladly take dedicated timezone distributed servers for instancing.

I cant imagine Odissey without that feature. We're not talking big objets in the void with crazy time to kill anymore, P2P flaws will show badly.
 

Deleted member 257907

D
I don't understand would you still be able to pvp on the pve server or is pvp disabled?
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
Sir Ganksalot said:
Just wanted to make another thread about how garbage the instancing and networking is in this game and how amazing it could be if Frontier decided to go with dedicated servers.

As much as I hate the idea of a PvE only server, if Frontier decided to finally get with the times and switch to dedicated servers, I think I would be totally onboard with a PvE and PvP server and ditch solo all together.
I would hope that they would add some things to make a PvP server more appealing as well but what do you guys think?
If Frontier just ditched the current model and made two dedicated servers, one for PvE only and one for PvP, how would you want it to work? If you're a solo only player, would you be ok with losing solo in favor of a dedicated PvE server?
If you're an open only PvPer, would you like to see something like this?
Click to expand...
In your terminology, what's a "server"? Is it an independent BGS, so that a single system can be owned by different factions in the two servers? Can exploration tags be different in the two servers? Could Thargoids attack a station in one server but not another? Could a CG have different outcomes? If any of these are "yes", I think the fragmentation would damage the game. E.g. at the moment it makes sense for me to say, "the Thargoids have been quiet lately". I wouldn't want to have to specify which server I was talking about; this would be stepping outside the game world in order to discuss something within it.

On the other hand if they're all "no" I don't think you've really suggested anything different from the modes we have now, apart from removing Solo and adding Open-PvE. In that case I don't get why you want to remove Solo; it's the mode strongly preferred by some players.
 
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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
I was lead to believe that E|D would spend it's life cycle with P2P connections. What being 2020 has to do with anything, I am not sure. The idea behind the P2P was to remove the need for a subscription fee. This subject was a very early topic of the Design phase conversation. Any talk of central servers would necessarily require part of this conversation to be about paying for the change. I for one wouldn't be backing an idea like this one.

It would be much easier, and cheaper, for we players to just accept that some people don't do what we do in game, and let it be. But....
 

Skunkworx

Skunkworx
You obviously don't know the first thing about how the networking and server architecture of elite dangerous works. What has 2020 got to do with it, that statement makes no sense. The way Elite distributes the workload and across servers and P2P networking was cutting edge when it was first written and still is today. The way elite works with networking is actually the best fit for elite as it allows for dynamic sizing of the server infrastructure based upon current demand which fluctuates greatly. Elite already uses many dedicated servers in their design just not in the way you are thinking about it. There are bugs and issues with the P2P implementation that needs addressing but on the whole it is based upon a solid design. If you want to understand the reasons for why it is like it is you should watch the talks they gave on how they use the amazon services as a backend which are fascinating and full of explanations of how and why.
 

Jibroni Gibironi

Jibroni Gibironi
Sir Ganksalot said:
Just wanted to make another thread about how garbage the instancing and networking is in this game and how amazing it could be if Frontier decided to go with dedicated servers.

As much as I hate the idea of a PvE only server, if Frontier decided to finally get with the times and switch to dedicated servers, I think I would be totally onboard with a PvE and PvP server and ditch solo all together.
I would hope that they would add some things to make a PvP server more appealing as well but what do you guys think?
If Frontier just ditched the current model and made two dedicated servers, one for PvE only and one for PvP, how would you want it to work? If you're a solo only player, would you be ok with losing solo in favor of a dedicated PvE server?
If you're an open only PvPer, would you like to see something like this?
Click to expand...

😐 Umm, no I would not at all be ok with removing solo mode. Solo mode is a convenience for noobs. It allows new players to build up their experience, get better ships, weapons and a ton of money hassle free, before throwing themselves into the fray among the griefing sharks. I just started playing a few weeks ago, so I would not at all appreciate its removal. I'll play with others when I'm actually ready for it.
 

Jumpin' Jack Flash

Jumpin' Jack Flash
Sir Ganksalot said:
(Abbreviated)....If you're a solo only player, would you be ok with losing solo in favor of a dedicated PvE server?
Click to expand...


Hi :)

No. The reason (personally speaking) being that when this game was going to be made it was 'hinted' that a Solo offline version would be available. As this eventually wasn't possible a Solo online mode was included in the development. I reluctantly accepted that and bought the game.
I wouldn't want the Solo aspect to disappear, I'd be very cautious about a dedicated PvE server as well. What advantages / improvements in the game would a dedicated PvE server give me? :unsure:
The present setup works okay for me, I dip into Open Play now and again, but I play mostly in Solo...🤷‍♂️

Jack :)
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
I don't want to put words in the mouth of Sir G so to speak, but I think what our man is suggesting is along these lines - two servers where the galaxy and all its actions or reactions are consistent and so on; but that there is simply a distinct difference between what a player can expect.

Ie on the PvP server, one can consent to PvP by being present, and the opposite on the pve server. Other than that, they run the same for bgs and so on.

I may have interpreted you wrong @Sir Ganksalot and if so, I apologize, but this is how I understand your post and viewpoint. Which is I think what you were asking for - and if it could be made to work, I think it's a good idea as I've outlined it. There would obviously need to be caveats implemented in design so it can't be misused etc, but overall I think the idea is a pretty good one. It would improve the mmo incorporation side of things more, allowing more interaction between players.

Please nobody shoot me down with the 'but' arguments, as I'm not discounting anything, I'm just alluding to a positive framework that could be built upon.

If I misunderstood you though, please ignore this. Everyone has a different understanding of the two terms though, right?

Cheers,
The Hat :)



Ps - I've obviously omitted the offline argument to keep this simple
 

Mengy

Mengy
Can you imagine Elite Dangerous with a network architecture like the new MS Flight Simulator has? Such a space game would be sweet indeed.

I did once hope that Odyssey would come with a core rewrite of Elite's code, part of which would modernize and streamline it's networking. I no longer have such hopes anymore. We'll be standing up from our cockpit chairs and teleporting instantly to the ship ramp outside I fear.

As for a PvE server, we've only been asking for that since 2015. It ain't happening.
 

Orby one

O
Jibroni Gibironi said:
😐 Umm, no I would not at all be ok with removing solo mode. Solo mode is a convenience for noobs. It allows new players to build up their experience, get better ships, weapons and a ton of money hassle free, before throwing themselves into the fray among the griefing sharks. I just started playing a few weeks ago, so I would not at all appreciate its removal. I'll play with others when I'm actually ready for it.
Click to expand...
I hear you,
All I ever played was solo, I'm not sure exactly when it happened, one day I switched to open and have never gone back to solo.
You'll know when it's time.
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Well dedicated PVE mode would be great, but well it really would eat player numbers on current Open mode style PVP server. I think many gankers would get very target poor fast.
 

thistle

T
As Mohrgan and Skunkworx mentioned, it being 2020 doesn't mean the server architecture is out of date. It still does exactly what it was designed for.

Even if there are arguments for a different networking solution it's not a trivial change - it's an entirely different game built from scratch I would think.

Perhaps Odyssey will disprove that and change everything but I very much doubt it. I mean I hoped for Odyssey being a code refresh and partial rewrite lol, but I'm not expecting a different game.

(edit - a lot of that about at the moment though, expecting a different game then the actual one we have)
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Brrokk said:
In your terminology, what's a "server"? Is it an independent BGS, so that a single system can be owned by different factions in the two servers? Can exploration tags be different in the two servers? Could Thargoids attack a station in one server but not another? Could a CG have different outcomes? If any of these are "yes", I think the fragmentation would damage the game. E.g. at the moment it makes sense for me to say, "the Thargoids have been quiet lately". I wouldn't want to have to specify which server I was talking about; this would be stepping outside the game world in order to discuss something within it.

On the other hand if they're all "no" I don't think you've really suggested anything different from the modes we have now, apart from removing Solo and adding Open-PvE. In that case I don't get why you want to remove Solo; it's the mode strongly preferred by some players.
Click to expand...
Actually that's why I left this discussion open because I don't know. I think the background simulation should stay the same, being the same throughout all servers.

It would be different though because no one would have to make private groups anymore but also have no fear of dying to another player.

Where I would find a PvE server to be a bad thing is that it would be immersion breaking to me to be able to take damage from everyone except other players.
 

thistle

T
Sir Ganksalot said:
Actually that's why I left this discussion open because I don't know. I think the background simulation should stay the same, being the same throughout all servers.

It would be different though because no one would have to make private groups anymore but also have no fear of dying to another player.

Where I would find a PvE server to be a bad thing is that it would be immersion breaking to me to be able to take damage from everyone except other players.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong but it's not as simple as flicking a switch and changing from server architecture A to server architecture B, it's a fundamental design principle of the game as written.
 
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