[Theory-Crafting] Variable-range hyperdrives

[Edith_The_Hutt]

There's some discussion on how to overhaul the ADS to improve the exploration mechanics on another thread. Inspired by that I thought I'd voice an idea I'd had to overhaul something a little more radical: The Hyperspace Drive.

Currently the range of the hyperspace drive is inversely propotional to the ship's mass (and is related in a non-proportional manner to the class and rating of the drive). What if this was changed completely so that your range was proportional to the mass of your destination star?

How might it work? Let's say a new drive based on Thargoid technology is introduced: The Frame-hop drive. I stick this drive in my C-rated Cobra and I can get to Sol from upto 20 light years away. But I can get to Arcenar from 197 light years away, because the main star in that system is 9.7 times the mass of Sol. I can jump to the Great Anhilator or Sag A* from pretty much anywhere, because their mass is so great but if I want to jump to a small brown dwarf then I'm going to have to travel to another star which is really, really close to the destination before I can get within range for a jump.

What would the effect be? It would completely change the way navigation works in the game and how we think about distances. Most journeys would involve jumping to a large star close to where you wanted to get and then a series of further jumps along a chain of progressively smaller stars to reach the system you wanted. Navigation hubs would naturally form around high mass stars while explorers would be able to quickly get out of the bubble and into unexplored areas while traders and pirates would find their routes and interstellar choke points changed utterly inside the bubble.

Will it happen? Almost certainly not. I'm not suggesting this as a practical, easy to implement solution to all the woes of exploring or any other part of the game; the long term effects of this change would be a complete overhaul of most aspects of the way the game plays and works (e.g. consider the effects on the BGS and rares trade). I'm just curious what people would think about it as a thought experiment. We seem to get the same ideas cropping up about to improve various aspects of the game around here, I've not seen this one and decided to share it.

 

[Tim Langfeld]

How far from Sag A would this allow? :-0 I really hope the FSDs are not tampered with too much. There have been epic exploration events and suddenly having 100s or lyrs jump ranges would not be welcome by many I think?

 

[furrycat]

Currently the range of the hyperspace drive is directly propotional to the ship's mass

It is directly proportional to the drive's optimal mass.

The idea is interesting. The immediate concern would be that some really tiny stars might end up being completely unreachable in areas of low star density. Though maybe that isn't a bad thing. If you want to get quickly to some regions you could use the new drive and if you wanted to visit others you'd need the regular one.

That would mean constructing more starports in remote regions to facilitate swapping between the two types of drive. For some people, the chance to expand human territory by adding more stations all over the place would be very attractive. For others, not so much.

How far from Sag A would this allow?

If, hypothetically, the range to Sol were 20Ly and the drive's maximum range were strictly governed by the number of solar masses of the destination, it's reasonably safe to say that you could reach it from anywhere you could actually get to in the first place.

 

[Edith_The_Hutt]

It is directly proportional to the drive's optimal mass..

Good point, I'd meant to write inversely proportional. I'll edit now

 

[c00ky1970]

So you are at SOL and engage the holly-hop drive and arrive at Sag A*, how do you get back, as there isn't a Sag A* near SOL?

Why do you need to get to Sag A* so quickly? What is there that needs immediate player attendance?

(Replace Sag A* with your choice of destination)

People climb Everest because its hard, same goes in Elite for Sag A* or Beagle point - I don't see any game play benefit to holly-hop around the Milky Way.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

There's some discussion on how to overhaul the ADS to improve the exploration mechanics on another thread. Inspired by that I thought I'd voice an idea I'd had to overhaul something a little more radical: The Hyperspace Drive.

Currently the range of the hyperspace drive is directly propotional to the ship's mass (and is related in a non-proportional manner to the class and rating of the drive). What if this was changed completely so that your range was proportional to the mass of your destination star?

How might it work? Let's say a new drive based on Thargoid technology is introduced: The Frame-hop drive. I stick this drive in my C-rated Cobra and I can get to Sol from upto 20 light years away. But I can get to Arcenar from 197 light years away, because the main star in that system is 9.7 times the mass of Sol. I can jump to the Great Anhilator or Sag A* from pretty much anywhere, because their mass is so great but if I want to jump to a small brown dwarf then I'm going to have to travel to another star which is really, really close to the destination before I can get within range for a jump.

What would the effect be? It would completely change the way navigation works in the game and how we think about distances. Most journeys would involve jumping to a large star close to where you wanted to get and then a series of further jumps along a chain of progressively smaller stars to reach the system you wanted. Navigation hubs would naturally form around high mass stars while explorers would be able to quickly get out of the bubble and into unexplored areas while traders and pirates would find their routes and interstellar choke points changed utterly inside the bubble.

Will it happen? Almost certainly not. I'm not suggesting this as a practical, easy to implement solution to all the woes of exploring or any other part of the game; the long term effects of this change would be a complete overhaul of most aspects of the way the game plays and works (e.g. consider the effects on the BGS and rares trade). I'm just curious what people would think about it as a thought experiment. We seem to get the same ideas cropping up about to improve various aspects of the game around here, I've not seen this one and decided to share it.

It's an interesting premise, and it certainly would change the game radically in terms of travel. I think it would make the galaxy feel somewhat smaller, which isn't that great for the game as that's one of the main things about it - the scale of the galaxy. I think the major disadvantage of this is right there in the OP; that Sgr A*, which is a good challenge to get to, is then trivialised by its incredible mass making it doable in a single jump.

I appreciate that you don't mean it as a practical thing, but it has a weird effect that all the main tourist places - the challenges to get to; the interesting places, are suddenly doable with very little effort, yet all the inconsequential places - tiny Y-class Brown Dwarfs, for example, would require more effort to get to. It basically flips the whole game on its head.

It's difficult to think of the BGS implications, because that all takes place in a small area of space. Certainly the BGS in terms of Colonia would be affected much more easily than currently, as well as the more massive systems of the Bubble. It would also mean that these more massive stars would be the main hubs of player activity, and the smaller systems would probably get less traffic.

Rares trading could be either trivialised or made harder depending on whether there's a massive star near 120LY away that can be reached in a single jump.

Hmmm... worth thinking about, because it's basically an inversion of the game mechanics as they currently stand. On the positive note, it would make navigation skill more prominent, as you'd need to plan your route around high mass stars to get to where you want to go - and that information isn't available in the Galaxy Map. You'd need to use astronomical knowledge of star classes and their mass-ranges to make navigation easier for you.

 

[Xious]

Nope... the way it works currently, is fine.

 

[Aashenfox]

Too complex to rework the travel system to such a degree now, aside from the fact I find the current system fair and feasible, the coding effort would be astronomical, no pun intended.

This is something for the next iteration of the game 'Elite - Deadly'

 

[Edith_The_Hutt]

Too complex to rework the travel system to such a degree now, aside from the fact I find the current system fair and feasible, the coding effort would be astronomical, no pun intended.

This is something for the next iteration of the game 'Elite - Deadly'

Well, yes. I raised it more to spark ideas and discussion rather than as a serious proposal for game development. I just want to know what people would think about it.

I appreciate that you don't mean it as a practical thing, but it has a weird effect that all the main tourist places - the challenges to get to; the interesting places, are suddenly doable with very little effort, yet all the inconsequential places - tiny Y-class Brown Dwarfs, for example, would require more effort to get to. It basically flips the whole game on its head.

Yeah, I came up with the idea when pondering what would make a lot of these interesting places more accessible to the average player. The galaxy would still have 400,000,000,000 stars to visit, but each star would at most be 10 or 20 jumps from every other star so exploration would be less about grinding through a few hundred jumps to get somewhere new and more about finding new and interesting places no one else has found.

So you are at SOL and engage the holly-hop drive and arrive at Sag A*, how do you get back, as there isn't a Sag A* near SOL?

Why do you need to get to Sag A* so quickly? What is there that needs immediate player attendance?

(Replace Sag A* with your choice of destination)

People climb Everest because its hard, same goes in Elite for Sag A* or Beagle point - I don't see any game play benefit to holly-hop around the Milky Way.

Partly it's a different way of thinking about exploration, do you want to get to that distant nebula because it looks pretty and contains interesting materials, or do you want to get there because it's far away and you like the achievement of reaching things that are far away?

Either is fine and I'm probably a mix of both myself but the more I think about this drive model the more interesting consequences come out of it.

 

[clinton]

In the Star Wars galaxy, the "Deep Core" is difficult to navigate. I'd actually like to see something different, that Sag A is actually really hard to get too.

Stars should "shadow" stars behind them, the larger the stars the greater the shadowing effect. This should make jumps near the core shorter.

 

[verminstar]

In the Star Wars galaxy, the "Deep Core" is difficult to navigate. I'd actually like to see something different, that Sag A is actually really hard to get too.

Stars should "shadow" stars behind them, the larger the stars the greater the shadowing effect. This should make jumps near the core shorter.

Sag a is already hard to get to...can assure ye that 22ly range makes it hard.

Apart from that, I'm perfectly happy with how the friendship drive works now, I don't see any need to change anything. Define the need because there's a challenge in exploration in not only getting somewhere, but getting back. This sounds like "I win" mode by making the Milky Way much smaller.

That means loss of challenge and in an already barebones career? No ^

 

[Muzz UK]

I like the effort and theory by the op but dont think it will happen. We might see drives with longer ranges akin to the military drives in the older games. Maybe Thargoid tech will allow you to jump any star in a system that would be something. Bar engineering and tech range increase I dont see Frontier doing a radical change.

Though an overdrive feature negated by hull damage might be something. 10x range increase for 10% hull damage.