There are (almost) no griefers in Open Play

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… Maybe I'm playing a different game to you but it's pretty hard for me to die in pvp with anything under a viper 3. …

Yes, you probably play a different game. Focusing on combat is very different to trying to achieve something non-combat oriented.
All the things you mentioned work nicely they only have one problem - they are all directly against the goal of the non-combat player. The non-combat player needs cargo space, needs to reach a certain station and time is important.

Just yesterday I spend some time in SC at that gold CG. It's very interesting to watch. Taking part in the CG and "pirating"/killing participants are indeed completely different games.

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If you are in a t7 and sdc see you in open you are dinner. Seen it on twitch.lol

I think you are toast in any ship if you stumble into the instance of dedicated player killers (what ever player group they are).

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Luckily they are quite rare as griefing doesn't exist in the first place that often.

But on a serious note. You could obviously take this thread as yet another pro/contra thread of the never ending carebear vs hardcore debate but my original intentio nwas to stop or atleast slow down the frequency of upcoming reddit and forum threads of these debate with ... well ... a thread.

Obviously it didn't work

And for the "griefing" it doesn't matter how certain behaviors are called. Those actions cause reactions and those who do these actions simply don't want to accept the consequences of their actions or even accept that their actions have consequences.


Edit: I think I should have used that multi quote feature, but I didn't want to participate in yet an other "griefing" thread - I failed

 

[Kellan Fell]

If you are in a t7 and sdc see you in open you are dinner. Seen it on twitch.lol

And in anywhere other than an Anarchy star system, system security should then toast SDC. EVE may be a paradise for griefers and gankers, but only in low and null sec systems. In high sec it is total suicide, and eventually even SDC would get tired of constant insurance rebuys, and mofe to anarchy systems, which, by definition, should be hard to travel through safely.

Because the whole crime and punishment system is borked, what we actually see are hordes of "pirates" (and I use that term loosely and in an entirely derogatory fashion) swarming through the "civilised" sections of space blowing up traders, newbies and any other effectively unarmed and incapable of fighting back ships that thay can wing up on, while the backwater anarchy systems that pilots should fear to tread are perfectly safe for transit because there are no soft targets out there for these people to assert their manhood over.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Don't even get me started on what engineers adds to the mix. Maybe I'm playing a different game to you but it's pretty hard for me to die in pvp with anything under a viper 3. Maybe if you see four unknown FDLs in super you should low wake and hide, pre-charge you frame shift drive, and see if they drop on you to gank you? If they do then you can high wake on boost, avoiding combat and not taking any damage.

"Maybe you should not be in an instance with other commanders" is your deep insight and pro-gaming advice?
Well, I played like that for the better of 6 month and then some people started crying how empty open was. And nice carebear that I am, I took pity on them and now I'm here.
And now you're telling me I'm only safe when I'm alone.
I mean, that's all nice and dandy, but maybe one day or another you make up your mind if you want to play a multiplayer game .. or you want to be alone with the other pillocks.

Isn't that better then getting interdicted by the four ships and possibly seeing the rebuy screen?

Nope.
Because it's 600m/s Ramspeed.

 

[Jack Schitt]

What is high wake?
What is Shield cell banks?
What is Hull reinforcements?
What is shield boosters?
What is chaff?
What is situational awareness?

Worst round of Jeopardy ever.

 

[Vorxian]

[h=2]There are (almost) no griefers in Open Play[/h]

There's even less in solo!

 

[Robert Maynard]

There's even less in solo!

.... with their population in Private Groups lying somewhere in between the two....

Regarding competing definitions for the term in question, here's another:

griefer
Pronunciation: /ˈɡriːfə/

noun
informal

(In an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment:

‘a class of entrepreneurs is emerging who see griefers not just as an annoyance but as a potential source of lost revenue’​

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/griefer

 

[Vorxian]

"a class of entrepreneurs is emerging who see griefers not just as an annoyance but as a potential source of lost revenue"

A griefer can be someone who slows down your income!! love it!!

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Then you get those that miss-type the word completely and spell-correction ends up with:

 

[Crimson Kaim]

"a class of entrepreneurs is emerging who see griefers not just as an annoyance but as a potential source of lost revenue"

A griefer can be someone who slows down your income!! love it!!

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Then you get those that miss-type the word completely and spell-correction ends up with:

http://static.djbooth.net/pics-playlists/weed.jpg

You see, this formulation is pretty iaccurate without an example but it still a definition of griefing I suppose. I have added this and the other additional definition to my OP for reference. But still, the definitions don't vary too much.

 

[Ndarain]

Since the recent Engineers update these "Griefer destroyed ..." threads appear more commonly than before.

I thought we all had made this crystal clear before 2.1 but magically new engineer weapons made all PvPers griefers again.

Quoting the Elite: Dangerous Wiki:



Other definitions:

Spoiler

Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/griefer


Source: http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefer

So no, a random player destroying your ship is not a griefer, not even if you don't see any reason for it. Reasons like cargo or powerplay related issues are obvious but for example when you are getting blown up in your ASP Explorer but don't see any reason for your ship destruction then it is still not griefing.
Maybe this list of reasons might help you understanding:

- Player wanted to prevent you selling exploration data (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you trading at this station (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you from contributing to a Community Goal (Wants to prevent the success of this CG)
- You did something in your past your opponent didn't tolerate (revenge)
- You are a known combat logger (once is enough)
- You are known to be part of (or support) a player group which is hostile to another group or single player
- You entered another player group's home system (quite often without knowing) without permission*
- You use the current unbalanced heat meta (Horizons exclusive)
- You were stealing someone's NPC kill (RES/NB/USS/etc.)
- You were confused with another player and blown up by accident
*This is just bad luck. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. This is why we should have active player group support with player created laws/rules.

These are all reasons for ship destruction and I seriously can't understand why people are moaning about getting blow up on the forums and/or reddit. They already bought a super expensive ship (100% value) and have to pay a tiny fee (5% value) of their ship upon total failure. Be happy we don't lose engineer micro materials when blown up.



But what am I saying? Yes I do think that this is ridiculous and pathetic but originally I wanted to point out the following:

1. There are (almost) no griefers in this game.
2. Going to solo/private is perfectly fine (I was in a different opinion when I started PvPing). For every PvPer: You won't see this kind of person in open anyways. If they can't play in solo/private they don't play at all so there is no difference to 'us'. However, the problem with influencing the BGS and PP remains.
3. Moaning on the forum and/or reddit is not ok. People will laugh about you behind their screens like "Oh, another child who got butt-kicked." and at some point these repetetive threads become annoying (Though, I repeat myself regarding NPCs .. hehe.) and ultimately: Noone cares. Period. Who cares if you go to solo when noone can play with you anymore? It isn't really some kind of loss for anyone like if someone would leave a player group and they'd miss this person now.
4. PvP may not be for you, this is okay and FD has given you the choice to avoid it. However, you have no possibility to adjust the game to your demands. Instead you have the possibility to adapt your demands or yourself to the game.


Can we please stop moaning now? I am a PvPer and stopped moaning about solo/private. I expect the other half to stop moaning about open and PvP.

Thank you for your attention. (Thank you not if you have skipped a part )

Someone sounds full of themselves

 

[verminstar]

Yes because this has everything to do with what I said and isn't hyperbolic at all.

Also the one thing missing from your post is that this is a game and not real life. We are talking about a game as such you can use the in game mechanics to avoid death and if you fail to understand them or chose to not uses them to your advantage then that is your choice and not the fault of others.

Simply put you die because you do not understand the game mechanics. Does that condone the other players actions not really, is it your fault he attacked your ship of course not, but if you chose to to put yourself in a position to lose a ship by not preparing for the threats you could face then that is your choice and you have to accept that.

So what's the problem? Players like me are already using the game mechanics to avoid being killed...it's called solo. To play in solo is also a choice that has a positive impact on our gameplay, albeit with much less social interaction.

On your point about this being a game...I absolutely 100% agree. If I didn't, and played with as much immersion as I could get, then I would be playing in open. Thing about games though is that many classic games have been played as a single player campaign...which is more or less what this game is in solo play. It's all about having the freedom to choose and open players don't like the fact that we have solo to play in because it makes for much fewer targets. The pvprs refuse to accept responsibility for their actions, which literally forces players into solo play which makes their game boring because there's absolutely nothing they can do about it.

To behave in such a way that it affects the flow of the game is entirely the fault of the pvprs...and I use the term "pvprs" with tongue firmly in cheek. And you have to accept that ^^

So while solo players are quite happy, we now have to trawl through more of these threads from pvprs who claim open is safe and it's all hyperbole, and those of us who die have to accept that it's our own fault fer being there in the first place.

If yer wanting us to come out of solo play into open, then yer methods of persuasion leave an awful lot to be desired ^^

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Then you get those that miss-type the word completely and spell-correction ends up with:

Mmm... Onionhead.

 

[aRJay]

As long as almost equals a positive integer number there are too many of them.

You listed a great many explanations for a player to attack another one which from an attackers view point are well and good, but for his unsuspecting victim very little of this is obvious.

Another issue from the victims point of view is time, the attacker knows he is going to drag them out of cruise and rob them of 50 cargo he is even going to give them the time (he thinks) to follow his orders, the victim is dragged out of cruise unexpectedly (more often than not) and goes into panic escape mode show bellow items in brackets are the disruptions that confuse everything. Note this is based on the last time I was killed by the same commander.
full throttle
deploy defences
spot the mugger
turn away
(it's a player!)
start fight or flight decision loop
(what a message)
(50 tons of my cargo)
(do I reply or do I dump cargo)
(better dump cargo, how do I do that again?)
(YOU EXPLETIVE DELATED MURDER HOBO) mugger opens fire
(I was just about to tab round to inventory)
spam mines
die
pay 4,000,000 plus credit rebuy

Now to be fare to him he probably thought I had plenty of time because he has done it so many times before to others, to me in only my second experience of being pirated by a player the time between him demanding cargo with menaces and him opening fire was virtually instantaneous.

 

[verminstar]

It's when ye get killed even after ye drop cargo...now that's the bit when ye start to not care about what wiki tells ye griefing is and call it griefing anyway ^^

 

[peteuplink]

Oh look another pro-PvP post [zZzZz]

 

[Marcns007]

It's down to 3 or more games in one, it cannot be compared to Battlefront. Its down to the time invested and credits and someone able to wipe that out in 10 seconds.
Also the fact that the game really isn't addressing these issues.
I would like to be in open but mobius works for me at the moment

 

[NorMonsta]

mmmmmmmmm

 

[Artemis Zodiac]

I want that dutchie the guy was toking in the pic

 

[Mark Lock]

Since the recent Engineers update these "Griefer destroyed ..." threads appear more commonly than before.

I thought we all had made this crystal clear before 2.1 but magically new engineer weapons made all PvPers griefers again.

Quoting the Elite: Dangerous Wiki:



Other definitions:

Spoiler

Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/griefer


Source: http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefer

So no, a random player destroying your ship is not a griefer, not even if you don't see any reason for it. Reasons like cargo or powerplay related issues are obvious but for example when you are getting blown up in your ASP Explorer but don't see any reason for your ship destruction then it is still not griefing.
Maybe this list of reasons might help you understanding:

- Player wanted to prevent you selling exploration data (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you trading at this station (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you from contributing to a Community Goal (Wants to prevent the success of this CG)
- You did something in your past your opponent didn't tolerate (revenge)
- You are a known combat logger (once is enough)
- You are known to be part of (or support) a player group which is hostile to another group or single player
- You entered another player group's home system (quite often without knowing) without permission*
- You use the current unbalanced heat meta (Horizons exclusive)
- You were stealing someone's NPC kill (RES/NB/USS/etc.)
- You were confused with another player and blown up by accident
*This is just bad luck. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. This is why we should have active player group support with player created laws/rules.

These are all reasons for ship destruction and I seriously can't understand why people are moaning about getting blow up on the forums and/or reddit. They already bought a super expensive ship (100% value) and have to pay a tiny fee (5% value) of their ship upon total failure. Be happy we don't lose engineer micro materials when blown up.



But what am I saying? Yes I do think that this is ridiculous and pathetic but originally I wanted to point out the following:

1. There are (almost) no griefers in this game.
2. Going to solo/private is perfectly fine (I was in a different opinion when I started PvPing). For every PvPer: You won't see this kind of person in open anyways. If they can't play in solo/private they don't play at all so there is no difference to 'us'. However, the problem with influencing the BGS and PP remains.
3. Moaning on the forum and/or reddit is not ok. People will laugh about you behind their screens like "Oh, another child who got butt-kicked." and at some point these repetetive threads become annoying (Though, I repeat myself regarding NPCs .. hehe.) and ultimately: Noone cares. Period. Who cares if you go to solo when noone can play with you anymore? It isn't really some kind of loss for anyone like if someone would leave a player group and they'd miss this person now.
4. PvP may not be for you, this is okay and FD has given you the choice to avoid it. However, you have no possibility to adjust the game to your demands. Instead you have the possibility to adapt your demands or yourself to the game.


Can we please stop moaning now? I am a PvPer and stopped moaning about solo/private. I expect the other half to stop moaning about open and PvP.

Thank you for your attention. (Thank you not if you have skipped a part )

I'm not a pvper but I agree with what you say, however there are griefers.

Combatloggers and those who crash into ships at station in a sidewinder are considered griefers even if sidewinders crashing into ships rely on infractions the great majority commit at station, you only get killed if you speed, otherwise they just blowup themselves usually without any consequence for target ship

 

[Iain L]

You don't get to define others' feelings. If someone is upset that you destroyed their non-combat ship, you caused them grief. You can come on the forums and whine about how awful it is that you've been accused of something horrid, but don't expect me to take you seriously.

This is all part of a wider, horribly depressing trend, where young men (and it's nearly always young men) seem to be under the impression that being accused of a publicly frowned-upon act is far, far worse than actually committing it.

 

[Pendra]

When I played ED, I popped player just for the sake of it. Their only crime was that they have spent too much time in the middle of my crosshair.