There are (almost) no griefers in Open Play

[Crimson Kaim]

Since the recent Engineers update these "Griefer destroyed ..." threads appear more commonly than before.

I thought we all had made this crystal clear before 2.1 but magically new engineer weapons made all PvPers griefers again.

Quoting the Elite: Dangerous Wiki:

Things to remember about griefers:

• Griefers are fuelled by reaction. If you react to anything they have done it will only add to their fun even more. Do not make yourself a bigger target by insulting griefers, bad-mouthing them, or otherwise. If they think you're an emotional individual who reacts explosively to their actions against you, they might never leave you alone!
• You have a REPORT PLAYER function on the main menu. If you feel your enjoyment of the game is being ruined by acts of griefing, report it and the player(s) involved!
• Commanders will often accuse other players of griefing, simply because they have been attacked, or because they are abusing their authority.
• A Pirate is NOT a griefer!
• A Bounty Hunter is NOT a griefer!
• A commander who attacks you for any, or no, reason is NOT a griefer (unless repeated attacks prevent you from progressing further).
• A NPC who attacks you repeatedly for no reason is NOT, by definition, a griefer!

Other definitions:

Spoiler

Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/griefer

griefer
Pronunciation: /ˈɡriːfə/

noun
informal

(In an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment:

‘a class of entrepreneurs is emerging who see griefers not just as an annoyance but as a potential source of lost revenue’

Source: http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefer

Someone, usually in an online game, who intentionally, and usually repeatedly, attempts to degrade anothers experience or torment them.

Examples of griefing:

1. Player vs player abuse: Singling out the same person and killing them over and over when they are defensless until hey log off.

2. Kill stealing: Repeatedly trying to steal another persons kills so that their time is wasted.

3. Verbal abuse: Spamming a person with vulgar, hatefull, or offensive messages.

4. Blocking: Getting in anothers way so they cannot move or get out of a particular area.

So no, a random player destroying your ship is not a griefer, not even if you don't see any reason for it. Reasons like cargo or powerplay related issues are obvious but for example when you are getting blown up in your ASP Explorer but don't see any reason for your ship destruction then it is still not griefing.
Maybe this list of reasons might help you understanding:

- Player wanted to prevent you selling exploration data (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you trading at this station (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you from contributing to a Community Goal (Wants to prevent the success of this CG)
- You did something in your past your opponent didn't tolerate (revenge)
- You are a known combat logger (once is enough)
- You are known to be part of (or support) a player group which is hostile to another group or single player
- You entered another player group's home system (quite often without knowing) without permission*
- You use the current unbalanced heat meta (Horizons exclusive)
- You were stealing someone's NPC kill (RES/NB/USS/etc.)
- You were confused with another player and blown up by accident
*This is just bad luck. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. This is why we should have active player group support with player created laws/rules.

These are all reasons for ship destruction and I seriously can't understand why people are moaning about getting blow up on the forums and/or reddit. They already bought a super expensive ship (100% value) and have to pay a tiny fee (5% value) of their ship upon total failure. Be happy we don't lose engineer micro materials when blown up.



But what am I saying? Yes I do think that this is ridiculous and pathetic but originally I wanted to point out the following:

1. There are (almost) no griefers in this game.
2. Going to solo/private is perfectly fine (I was in a different opinion when I started PvPing). For every PvPer: You won't see this kind of person in open anyways. If they can't play in solo/private they don't play at all so there is no difference to 'us'. However, the problem with influencing the BGS and PP remains.
3. Moaning on the forum and/or reddit is not ok. People will laugh about you behind their screens like "Oh, another child who got butt-kicked." and at some point these repetetive threads become annoying (Though, I repeat myself regarding NPCs .. hehe.) and ultimately: Noone cares. Period. Who cares if you go to solo when noone can play with you anymore? It isn't really some kind of loss for anyone like if someone would leave a player group and they'd miss this person now.
4. PvP may not be for you, this is okay and FD has given you the choice to avoid it. However, you have no possibility to adjust the game to your demands. Instead you have the possibility to adapt your demands or yourself to the game.


Can we please stop moaning now? I am a PvPer and stopped moaning about solo/private. I expect the other half to stop moaning about open and PvP.

Thank you for your attention. (Thank you not if you have skipped a part )

 

[DukeIronHand]

Okay I like the nice clear definitions but what is it when:
1) Player sits on pad blocking others from landing?
2) Player, in a suicide Sidewinder, spends the day just ramming other Cmdrs?

 

[Troy_McClure]

I love unbiased journalism!

..'you were confused with another player & blown up by accident' - Oh that's okay then, as long as it's a valid reason, I don't know what I was complaining about!

CK? Stick to blowing things up & leave the thinking to others!

 

[Kubicide]

Pretty funny post. Thanks for sharing your point of view. Assume you are a griefer, by your choice of gameplay, or often called one?

Like your post, everyone is entitled to an opinion so perhaps you'll get your wish for fewer complaints if or when griefing really does becomes less of an issue. This will require changes to the game and not changes from the players. While griefing is common in many online games Elite does make it very easy to get away with, and folks often use excuses like you have posted to point to roleplaying or interpreting game mechanics in their way to hide their unwelcomed gameplay. And griefing takes place a lot more than you suggest in open. So enjoy everyone's opinion and simply ignore threads that are not of personal interest.

BTW PK'ing for your first three reasons alone fits the description of griefing quite nicely.

 

[Eloy]

- You were confused with another player and blown up by accident

Haha, this explains it all. Future excuse for everyone.

 

[iFred]

897498734908274092837489th discussion about griefers. And here´s another one telling us that he is not griefing, but roleplaying. by the way, you forgot the "It´s just pixels"-argument. Just for the next time.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Since when is a game wiki The Ultimate Truth? In the past, 'griefing' was very narrowly defined based on how griefing happened in those days. Most sane people have a wider definition of griefing:"actions done with the primary intent being to cause grief". This does happen in ED, people are understandable annoyed by it and the same old "but in Ultima Online/Everquest they defined griefing differently" is an absurd excuse. Its not about whether someone technically is a griefer, as there are no formal definitions in gaming that sense. The point is that people shouldn't act like bungholes, and "technically you just used a term in the wrong way according to one website" is not a response you'd expect from a human being with intact social skills.

 

[Cosmos]

The level of moaning of what takes place in game is absolutely staggering particuarly given every time folks load it up there is a choice of three modes to play in: Open, Solo, PG. I've said it before, there is no griefing - closest thing I've seen to it is Eagling ships around stations, but the problem is that DB has certain views over this, and never seems to stop talking about it. Its then been bandwagoned by those who feel agrieved by actions in game.

I suppose this is what happens under such circumstances and when a mix of players who would ordinarily be seperated (PvP/PvE servers) are put together.

If folks want to understand what a griefing experience is then they should play Ark on an official PvP server for a month or two. It would put things into stark constrast and believe me those peeps would realise how ridiculous these 'griefer' complaints are re ED.

To stop this there needs to be a clear statement from Frontier about playing in Open and how at any moment you may or may not be attacked by other players, particuarly where large numbers of players are concentrated... Should folks not wish to play with the added jeopardy and dynamism that brings Solo and PG are availabe to use at any time, and we are all free to switch between these modes as we see fit.

 

[Dakron Nova]

Cool this thread again...

(There would be a cool popcorn image here but cant upload anymore)

 

[Darkminded]

Going to Farseer INC in Deciat just to kill any ship that comes arround, so you can rank up in combat status, because you have asked FDEV to reset your combat status, is not Griefing !?!?!?!?

OF COURSE NOT, you are not even a Griefer you are deluding yourself that you are a PVP'er you are in fact just a Troll !!!!

 

[Mohrgan]

The fox is claiming the hen house. No one can control the use of individual words. The society around us does that. If the society of players feels that loosely justified claims for attacks are griefing, it is so. FD, nor any player group. nor individual is going to change that.

The common refrain that "there is no such thing as griefing in E|D", is one of the base causes for players to leave open to the aggressors. When a whole chorus of players bleat this out at regular interval it seems to be taken as a warning. "If you enter open mode, you must accept atery from random Commanders". There is no doubt that this is a major cause for the reduced numbers in open.

I for one hope there is never any tools added to the game that allows players, or player groups, to claim systems and create their own laws. Especially the part where they can decide that some Commanders are not welcomed in any system. This is why there is always a fight about the implementation of player groups. "Eve is a cockpit" comes to mind, and I shudder.

 

[jasonbarron]

When I was a noob player just learning the ropes I used to see these conversations about griefers/gankers and I always thought they were "bad guys" too. Now that I've become a seasoned vet, I see them for what they are: the game's equivalent of dingos/hyenas/African wild dogs/lions/tigers/wolf packs...basically the predators that prey on the weak and the unwary. In other words, a vital piece of the Elite ecology. I wouldn't have it any other way, and if ED lost that component, I'd quit playing entirely.

If somebody kills you in a suicidewinder, you as a player have a choice: you can either flee to Mobius and spend countless hours ranting about how you were so unfairly treated and the rest of your days vilifying every aspect of Open...or you could take a moment to analyze how you came to be so unaware of the environment around you that you could be taken down into the tall grasses to be some predator's meat so easily. The former leads to sub par gaming skills, the latter to becoming a skilled pilot.

 

[nats]

There are (almost) no griefers in this game.

I dont call them griefers I call them idiots. One unprovoked unreasonable attack where they spoil your game is more than enough.

 

[Cosmos]

Can we please stop now moaning? I am a PvPer and stopped moaning about solo/private. I expect the other half to stop moaning about open and PvP.

This, a whole lot of this ^

 

[Mohrgan]

When I was a noob player just learning the ropes I used to see these conversations about griefers/gankers and I always thought they were "bad guys" too. Now that I've become a seasoned vet, I see them for what they are: the game's equivalent of dingos/hyenas/African wild dogs/lions/tigers/wolf packs...basically the predators that prey on the weak and the unwary. In other words, a vital piece of the Elite ecology. I wouldn't have it any other way, and if ED lost that component, I'd quit playing entirely.

If somebody kills you in a suicidewinder, you as a player have a choice: you can either flee to Mobius and spend countless hours ranting about how you were so unfairly treated and the rest of your days vilifying every aspect of Open...or you could take a moment to analyze how you came to be so unaware of the environment around you that you could be taken down into the tall grasses to be some predator's meat so easily. The former leads to sub par gaming skills, the latter to becoming a skilled pilot.

Or, that player could just choose the environment they best enjoy, and never mention it on the forums. Like how the majority of players handle it. It does not go hand in hand that choosing to play in a PG brings on a forum rant. While the PvP'ers out there go on 'anti-defamation' binges, let's point out just how ridiculous a stereotype the PvP'ers make of the players that eschew player combat. When you judges a players skill based on PvP activity you resemble the guy with the hammer seeing everything as a nail.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Okay I like the nice clear definitions but what is it when:
1) Player sits on pad blocking others from landing? Maybe he is AFK/spawned? You can't really call it griefing when another car is actually using a parking spot and you find none. No, not even a bike using or as you call it "blocking" your parking spot
2) Player, in a suicide Sidewinder, spends the day just ramming other Cmdrs? This is in my eyes griefing but I have never encountered that (which is why I put "(almost)" in the title).

Answers in red​.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Now that I've become a seasoned vet, I see them for what they are: the game's equivalent of dingos/hyenas/African wild dogs/lions/tigers/wolf packs...basically the predators that prey on the weak and the unwary. In other words, a vital piece of the Elite ecology.

Eh. No. That niche is taken by the npcs.

Griefers are just the fat tourists that throw their empty sodacans and candy wrappers everywhere, are loud and obnoxious and think for the 50 bucks entrance fee they own the place and are entitled to the trashthrowing.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I love unbiased journalism!

..'you were confused with another player & blown up by accident' - Oh that's okay then, as long as it's a valid reason, I don't know what I was complaining about!

CK? Stick to blowing things up & leave the thinking to others!

I haven't blown up another (imerpial) CMDR for months now ... sadly

 

[Ian Skippy]

Answers in red​.

people posted here they were pad-hogging the Hutton CG just to spite cmdrs actually trying to do something.

 

[Cajuncontroller]

Since the recent Engineers update these "Griefer destroyed ..." threads appear more commonly than before.

I thought we all had made this crystal clear before 2.1 but magically new engineer weapons made all PvPers griefers again.

Quoting the Elite: Dangerous Wiki:




So no, a random player destroying your ship is not a griefer, not even if you don't see any reason for it. Reasons like cargo or powerplay related issues are obvious but for example when you are getting blown up in your ASP Explorer but don't see any reason for your ship destruction then it is still not griefing.
Maybe this list of reasons might help you understanding:

- Player wanted to prevent you selling exploration data (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you trading at this station (which increases influence of BGS factions -> this should be prevented)
- Player wanted to prevent you from contributing to a Community Goal (Wants to prevent the success of this CG)
- You did something in your past your opponent didn't tolerate (revenge)
- You are a known combat logger (once is enough)
- You are known to be part of (or support) a player group which is hostile to another group or single player
- You entered another player group's home system (quite often without knowing) without permission*
- You use the current unbalanced heat meta (Horizons exclusive)
- You were stealing someone's NPC kill (RES/NB/USS/etc.)
- You were confused with another player and blown up by accident
*This is just bad luck. Sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't. This is why we should have active player group support with player created laws/rules.

These are all reasons for ship destruction and I seriously can't understand why people are moaning about getting blow up on the forums and/or reddit. They already bought a super expensive ship (100% value) and have to pay a tiny fee (5% value) of their ship upon total failure. Be happy we don't lose engineer micro materials when blown up.



But what am I saying? Yes I do think that this is ridiculous and pathetic but originally I wanted to point out the following:

1. There are (almost) no griefers in this game.
2. Going to solo/private is perfectly fine (I was in a different opinion when I started PvPing). For every PvPer: You won't see this kind of person in open anyways. If they can't play in solo/private they don't play at all so there is no difference to 'us'. However, the problem with influencing the BGS and PP remains.
3. Moaning on the forum and/or reddit is not ok. People will laugh about you behind their screens like "Oh, another child who got butt-kicked." and at some point these repetetive threads become annoying (Though, I repeat myself regarding NPCs .. hehe.) and ultimately: Noone cares. Period. Who cares if you go to solo when noone can play with you anymore? It isn't really some kind of loss for anyone like if someone would leave a player group and they'd miss this person now.
4. PvP may not be for you, this is okay and FD has given you the choice to avoid it. However, you have no possibility to adjust the game to your demands. Instead you have the possibility to adapt your demands or yourself to the game.


Can we please stop now moaning? I am a PvPer and stopped moaning about solo/private. I expect the other half to stop moaning about open and PvP.

Thank you for your attention. (Thank you not if you have skipped a part )

You forgot about those who knowingly infiltrate a private group and violate the rules of the group and then claim that said private groups rules don't apply to them. But I suppose that those who chose to play in private group instead of "moaning" about it aren't being grieved either.