Engineers Thermal shock reduce weapons damage by 1/4?

Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
Thermal shock reduce weapons damage by 1/4

Upgraded today my huge beam with thermal shock and when checked in equipment it shows -25% damage per second :( . I was not much happy after I found this when checked stats in outfitting.

Thermal_shock.jpg


Breach_damage_reduced.jpg

I do not have problem understand that such "nice" feature is added to this special effect, but why is not added in game this quite important detail as info, before is this upgrade applied? It will be much less confusing and player much less likely get upset after find it later ...
 
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Pablo-Diablo

Pablo-Diablo
Heat damage was supposed to compensate for the loss of DPS but now FD nerfed it... Now it just drains your capasitor in a second without dealing much damage to shields and doing a joke amount of heat damage. Two of theese with a top weapon focused capasitor upgrade got a player to 120% heat only for a brief second... Needless to say my own heat was above 100% too...

A single thermal cascade missile gets a player to 200%. NERF INCOMMING!

Personally I'd wait on doing the weapon special effects untill FD is finished with the nerf hammer.
 
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EValve

E
Pablo-Diablo said:
Heat damage was supposed to compensate for the loss of DPS but now FD nerfed it... Now it just drains your capasitor in a second without dealing much gamage to shields and doing a joke amount of heat damage. Two of these with a top weapon focused capasitor upgrade got a player to 120% heat only for a brief second... Neadless to say my own heat was above 100% too...

A single thermal cascade missile gets a player to 200%. NERF INCOMMING!

Personally I'd wait on doing the weapon special effects untill FD is finished with the nerf hammer.
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Haven't tested it myself but having something which isn't as useless as the power-play weapons for once seemed like a definite upgrade.

As per usual, they hit the seal once to kill it and once again to make sure it stays down.

A good counter to the heat build was AFM + Heatsinks, until they nerfed heat-sinks for god knows what reason... ( Ah yes, I remember, double clubbing Silent running alongside increased heat generation. )

The 25% effectiveness reduction vs shields was a good call, reducing heat on top of that... Come on... Stop clubbing seals...
 
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Chongo

C
Anyone that thinks thermal shock wasn't going to become an absolute menace is nuts, or has never participated in pvp wing fights. I don't think I would've recommended nerfing its damage - but the heat had it coming.

Personally I think they should've just taken weapons with obvious stacking problems (compounded by wing mechanics) like this and just set a max number that can deploy on a ship. Easy mechanical rationale too - the crazy mechanic's work overloads x, y, or z on the ship and only 1 or 2 will work at a time.
 
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Zeta Legion

Z
So, has thermal shock been nerfed to uselessness for lone pilots?

Looking for a good option for beams for a solo pilot, and none of them really look too appealing.
 

Murdok187

M
I rolled two huge beams, one thermal vent, one regeneration sequence. The latter I got as a random roll, tried it out, and loved it. So much more effective than I had anticipated. Thermal vent is a fantastic way to offset heart buildup when running two huge beams on a class 5 overcharged power plant.
 
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Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
I thought about 'vent' too, it was my second choice and would be first IF fhere was some ingame info which warned me about nerf. This is what is wrong. I'm fully ok with balancing op things, but ... GIVE US INFO PRIOR WE TAKE IT!!! ... time to rise rep with Dweller again ... *sigh* ...

... but maybe NPCs use less 'heat' costly weapons if already hit by weapon using t-shock. Will give it some time (and I like its visual effect too ;) ) for testing.
 
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Devari

D
Martind Forlon said:
Upgraded today my huge beam with thermal shock and when checked in equipment it shows -25% damage per second :( . I was not much happy after I found this when checked stats in outfitting.
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Most of the experimental effects come with some sort of trade-off, they're not just a straight bonus effect. Incendiary rounds do about 20% more total damage a significant part of this is thermal damage so they are better vs. shields but worse vs. hulls. Corrosive rounds do more damage vs. hull with a 25% damage increase but have a reduced ammo capacity. Thermal shock weapons have lower dps to offset the heat generation effect. The smart rounds have lower velocity. The worst upgrade I've found so far is thermal conduit, as the decrease in dps is not really offset by the increased damage unless your constantly overheating, in which case you are probably doing more damage to yourself with the special effect than you are to your enemy.
 

Artie

Artie
Devari said:
Most of the experimental effects come with some sort of trade-off, they're not just a straight bonus effect. Incendiary rounds do about 20% more total damage a significant part of this is thermal damage so they are better vs. shields but worse vs. hulls. Corrosive rounds do more damage vs. hull with a 25% damage increase but have a reduced ammo capacity. Thermal shock weapons have lower dps to offset the heat generation effect. The smart rounds have lower velocity. The worst upgrade I've found so far is thermal conduit, as the decrease in dps is not really offset by the increased damage unless your constantly overheating, in which case you are probably doing more damage to yourself with the special effect than you are to your enemy.
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Is somewhere the list of these (negative) effects, including exact values? Because drawbacks from the special effects aren't apparently displayed anywhere in the game, except in the stats of the module affected (which is a little bit late). If there no such list exists, it may be useful to compile one...
 
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geoffrey.hdt

geoffrey.hdt
For those complaining that the heat inflicted to the target is too low: didn't FD mention that the effect is reduced if the target shield is up? SO, take down the shield of your target, then watch him cook?
I find this already much more fair than what we had previously.

And as some other guys pointed out, thermal shock in a wing is still deadly, especially against those big ships...
 

h347h

h347h
geoffrey.hdt said:
For those complaining that the heat inflicted to the target is too low: didn't FD mention that the effect is reduced if the target shield is up? SO, take down the shield of your target, then watch him cook?
I find this already much more fair than what we had previously.

And as some other guys pointed out, thermal shock in a wing is still deadly, especially against those big ships...
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Yeah I'm guessing most large ships are going to have to run thermal vents to compensate.
 

geoffrey.hdt

geoffrey.hdt
h347h said:
Yeah I'm guessing most large ships are going to have to run thermal vents to compensate.
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Well, thermal vent decrease the heat generation when firing beam lasers. It does not mean it reduces the ship temperature.

Now, clean drives + low emission powerplant + kinetic weapons with efficient mods + specialized SCB should reduce the ship temperature, efficient against thermal shock loadout but less durable.
Some kind of rock/paper/scissors on paper, though I am not sure how it performs in real.
 

Devari

D
Mr.Hidden said:
Is somewhere the list of these (negative) effects, including exact values? Because drawbacks from the special effects aren't apparently displayed anywhere in the game, except in the stats of the module affected (which is a little bit late). If there no such list exists, it may be useful to compile one...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately some of the mod details aren't provided until you accept the mod and check the details on the module in the ship outfitting screen. If you don't like the mod special effect you can always remove it from your module in the outfitting screen so you don't have to rebuy the module if you want to remove the changes, but this can definitely be annoying if you are trying to decide if you want to replace a special effect you have with a new one when you roll the mod as you can't check these changes before accepting the new mod. The only changes that you will see in the engineering mod screen are ones that affect certain core weapon sats, for example, the decrease in velocity for smart rounds or the decrease in ammunition for corrosive rounds, and these will be listed in the lower right corner where there is a box showing some of this information. The extra damage from corrosive rounds, for example, and the information that the corrosive effect doesn't stack with more than one weapon firing corrosive rounds wasn't detailed anywhere and I had to search the forums from the 2.1 beta testing to find a post from a dev on how they work. The reduced damage for thermal shock or thermal conduit weapons also wasn't apparent until I selected the mods so I removed them later when I checked the stats in the outfitting screen. It's not a great system unfortunately so the best thing to do it to get as much information you can about the mod before accepting it.
 

Deadme4t

D
The -25% damage reduction is still not shown when you upgrade after all this time! Now I have to get resources again, sigh.
And yes, it works against npcs.
 

UnhappyDev

UnhappyDev
Yeah, thermal shock (and some other experimental effects) come with a significant reduction in raw damage, something that is not at all clear when you apply the effect.

For PVE, thermal shock is not very useful in my experience as NPCs don't seem to suffer much from heat damage.
 
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