Thinking about giving Odyssey content another chance

I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance. I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
Thanks in advance for any answers.
 
I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance. I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
Thanks in advance for any answers.

To answer your questions:
  • It feels to me a target dies after an appropriate amount of damage
  • Your space ranks aren't taken into account. For low-risk, there are combat zone missions you can pick up from Frontline Solutions at larger starports where faction state is civil war or war
  • The easiest thing to do for loot is to take missions from on-foot providers. There will be evacuated/uninhabited sites
I love the content. I hope you enjoy it, too!
 
I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance. I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
Thanks in advance for any answers.
I'll respond as someone who was on a long hiatus from ED and only got back two weeks ago because of Odyssey:

- TTK can be as low as 1 second (pull out a suppressed pistol and shoot an unsuspecting NPC in the head). TTK on armored and shielded guards in settlements is however long it takes you to land 2 shots from the plasma rifle, or 1 shot from the plasma shotgun point blank (usually Grade 3 is enough, which you can find pre-engineered in shops). TTK on soldiers in high Combat Zones (the toughest NPCs in game) is 2 rockets from G5 L-6 launcher (but this is something you shouldn't worry about for quite a while).

- Best places to practice are small-sized Anarchy settlements. With G3 equipment (suit and weapons) you can massacre all inhabitants easily, however be sure to disable alarm panel first to avoid dealing with police squads.

- Plenty of uninhabited (unpowered/offline) settlements, however they're tedious (you need to relaunch the power generator or manually overload every door), and they also can randomly have scavengers that will attack you. But don't worry, low level NPCs are not a threat, think of them as "mostly harmless" ships. Just don't trigger alarms and you'll be fine.
 
G2 Manticore Executioner is your friend along with low intensity Frontline CZs - usually two shots, one for shield and the next for the kill. Go up high and snipe, you will get a few shots at you but you're mostly safe. You will have to come down off of the perch to rearm and recharge which will put you more in the thick of things but in a way that will allow you to get comfortable with your bindings and the way it all goes, ensure that you're relatively close to both power & ammo. The Karma L-6 rocket launcher is also good with groups of troops, though they are easily absorbed by shields and there's only two rounds per magazine but along with a shield disrupter grenade they can have more impact.
 
Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk?
There are Surface Conflict Zones for that. When you die in there, you'll respawn in 3 min in the dropship and be in the fight again. Until the battle is won by one side. Also you'll not take any bounties / notoriety when killing foes, and even make good money in Combat Bonds.

You can find them in systems at war. There will be a station with a Frontline Solutions counter and they will drop you directly there. Or you can also go land on the CZ with your own ship.

Also they come in 3 levels of difficulty: Low, Med, High.
 
TTKs haven't changed, and barring the shotgun or sniper rifle, are firmly in what I'd consider absurd territory. It's not a problem, it's just not a good substitute for more competent NPCs.

There are next to no risks to on foot combat, you don't even face a rebuy. CZs will just respawn you, but even outside of them you'll usually just wind up back in your ship.

As noted, there are offline/uninhabited settlements. That said, I haven't really bothered with any of the on-foot Engineers yet. Organic PvP is rare enough, the mechanisms aren't engaging enough for me to want to bother deliberately looking for fully upgraded CMDRs to engage, and there is no on-foot PvE content that cannot be reliably overcome with basic pre-upgraded gear. Being able to try every mod without touching the Engineers (I'm pretty sure I bought at least one of everything) also dampens some of the reason for me to go out of my way for them.
 
I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance.
I think it is a good time to get back into the game. Update 9 feels like a noticeable step in the right direction, albeit I think things might not feel truly good until Update 11 at this rate. Nonetheless, I think EDO is thoroughly enjoyable.

I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
As a fellow greenhorn, I find that the TTK can be frustratingly bullet-spongy. I was in a fight with some scavs the other day and I noticed that my unengineered laser rifle needed about 3/4s of a magazine to disable a personal shield, and about the same to get a ballistic kill with my pistol. That's a lot of rounds for ONE KILL. But then you have the other extreme where you can kill a target with a single overcharge of their power pack from behind (a stealth takedown). The balancing in this game can be...weird. I think it definitely needs some refinement yet.

  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
The easiest mission I came across was a fight with scavs that had taken over a base. Even though it was listed as "threat level 3," I found the fight against 5-6 scavs to be entirely manageable. When it comes to foot combat in this game, the player just needs to jump in and learn as they go. As others have said, other than failing the mission (and sometimes being incarcerated if it was an illegal mission), there are few consequences. Try and try again!

  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
Besides those bases being terrorized by scavengers, I haven't found any yet.

Thanks in advance for any answers.
o7
 
I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance. I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
Thanks in advance for any answers.

TTk depends on your weapon choice. If you use an Aphelion laser rifle to take their shields out, then the AR-50 to finish them off, you'll have no problem. Reload the AR50 before switching back to laser, then reload the laser before engaging the next enemy. You can buy G2 weapons and suits in a lot of places, particularly right now after the server has rebooted.

'Harmless' enemies - scavenger clearance missions tend to be fairly easy, but check the threat level.

Uninhabited places - power restore missions. Put the power on, steal everything that isn't nailed down.
 
Is it me or some people just discovered the concept of "shield regen" and "medkit" in FPS... It's been around for ages.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
I basically never touched Odyssey-related stuff (ground combat, missions, suits, engineers etc) since release. Back then, it was just a buggy, laggy, badly balanced mess. Since buggy and laggy parts seems to be mostly patched out, I am considering to give it another chance.
It's still buggy, laggy, badly balanced, but not as bad now as it used to be. I'm having more fun in the game than being frustrated with it, which was the other way around until about patch 8/9. So while I still wouldn't recommend it to purchase at full price, since you already own it you should give it a go, apart from ground CZs and some settlements performance is just about ok now depending on your PC.
I got some questions though:
  • Is TTK still that bad? (By that, I mean "shoot someone for 30 seconds and they still not die")
TTK hasn't changed, but it gets better with upgraded gear. Instead of starting from scratch you should go shopping for pre-engineered gear, the difference is more the level (G3 is much more potent than G1 which is just annoying really), any mods are 'nice-to-have' and don't normally impact TTK all that much. Once you have a decent collection, pick the ones you want to spend mats on and focus on those. That's what I did anyways - engineering is still a chore but you skipped two levels worth of mats so not quite as bad, and technically G3 is sufficient to beat anything in the game. Consider anything above that a bonus or even overkill.
  • Is there a way to find a place with harmless enemies, so I could do some practice without any real risk? (I don't know if Odyssey takes my "space" ranks (which in my case is triple Elite) into account when it generates missions and other stuff)
See below
  • Is there any uninhabited places that you can loot to get started with engineers? (Like Dav's Hope for Horizons)
I'd go with legal 'powering up settlements' missions (iirc these also unlock an engineer, 10 I believe), these are legal, you get level 3 security access and a power regulator. Once you powered up a settlement, you can loot the entire place for mats and data. Usually some scavs spawn, the ship you use should ideally carry a dumbfire missile launcher to get rid of them if they're already there, otherwise the scavs appear after you leave the PWR building, and are usually low rank so provide some decent target practice (to your question above).
 
If you use an Aphelion laser rifle to take their shields out, then the AR-50 to finish them off, you'll have no problem.

The problem with long TTKs and weapon swapping isn't that it's a problem per se, it's that it's silly, subjectively of course.

Is it me or some people just discovered the concept of "shield regen" and "medkit" in FPS... It's been around for ages.

Shields in EDO are quite potent and regen quite rapidly, compared to most other shooters with personal shields, at least among ones that I'm familiar with. Always stopping all damage from any single projectile, no matter how much shield is left, is also rather unusual, and a serious contributor to the feel of excessive durability.

On an individual level, the medkits aren't that out of line with other shooters; the main thing that makes them silly in this game is that there seems to be a whole box of them every twenty feet.

Regardless, the commonality of a trope, in and of itself, say little about the quality of the gameplay it provides.
 
The problem with long TTKs and weapon swapping isn't that it's a problem per se, it's that it's silly, subjectively of course.
It is subjective, personally I found this concept of laser/kinetic swapping to make fights more technical.

Shields in EDO are quite potent and regen quite rapidly, compared to most other shooters with personal shields, at least among ones that I'm familiar with. Always stopping all damage from any single projectile, no matter how much shield is left, is also rather unusual, and a serious contributor to the feel of excessive durability.

On an individual level, the medkits aren't that out of line with other shooters; the main thing that makes them silly in this game is that there seems to be a whole box of them every twenty feet.
Those are fair points (and like weapon swapping, subjective ones). I think FDev tried to mimic the concept of "healers", which is core of some popular (and respected) FPS, like Team Fortress and Overwatch (and more generally MOBAs). But they understood that with the way Elite works (not enough PvP players, peer-to-peer, ...), you better be your own healer.

Extra potent heal makes the game more friendly for streamers because it insures a more constant level of action.
 
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On an individual level, the medkits aren't that out of line with other shooters; the main thing that makes them silly in this game is that there seems to be a whole box of them every twenty feet.
True in PvE, but in PvP CZ those boxes become empty very quick.
 
The problem with long TTKs and weapon swapping isn't that it's a problem per se, it's that it's silly, subjectively of course.
It's not a unique mechanic, though AFAIK possibly quite uncommon. Metroid Prime 1 made you swap visors & weapons to beat the later stage Metroids, they would change form midbattle and thus become immune to whichever weapon you were using, and/or become visible only to a different visor. Though you had unlimited ammo there but Metroid Prime 2 continued the theme with the light & dark ammo types with limited ammo. Both of those games are rated as classics and are two of my favorite games of all time. So maybe that's one reason why some are not bothered by this mechanic? If anyone hasn't played the Metroid series, I highly recommend them btw. Very much looking forward to Metroid Prime 4.
 
I found this concept of laser/kinetic swapping to make fights more technical.

It does, but in a purely arbitrary way, that I feel neither flows well, nor makes a whole lot of sense from a verisimilitude perspective.

I'd personally prefer if this kind of technical depth was reflected in things like facing, shot placement, cover vs. concealment, and the like.

It's not a unique mechanic, though AFAIK possibly quite uncommon. Metroid Prime 1 made you swap visors & weapons to beat the later stage Metroids, they would change form midbattle and thus become immune to whichever weapon you were using, and/or become visible only to a different visor. Though you had unlimited ammo there but Metroid Prime 2 continued the theme with the light & dark ammo types with limited ammo. Both of those games are rated as classics and are two of my favorite games of all time. So maybe that's one reason why some are not bothered by this mechanic? If anyone hasn't played the Metroid series, I highly recommend them btw. Very much looking forward to Metroid Prime 4.

Metroid Prime isn't a tactical shooter (which is clearly what EDO's ground combat is emulating) and doesn't primarily feature combat against infantry foes with similar capabilities as Samus.

Weapon swapping is fine as a matter of necessity to deal with different kinds of foes, circumstances beyond what individual weapon systems were designed for, or other extremes, but explicitly designing a weapon system that requires swapping back and forth between independent weapons, to tackle each and every individual infantry foe encountered, is never going to feel right to me, or most others expecting their shooters to make sense, contextually speaking.

If personal shields are ubiquitous, weapons intended to defeat them will be used, and if, for whatever reason what's ideal here is suboptimal for whatever is under the shield, the individual/discrete weapon system would itself be a compromise. No one would issue a weapon that destroyed body armor and then another weapon that killed the person underneath it, because having to swap between them would be a larger disadvantage than using whatever compromise system could manage both. Given the infantry damage resistances depicted in Odyssey, the standard loadouts wouldn't feature pure lasers or kinetics (except perhaps as sidearm), or even plasma (if the projectile velocity was an actual constraint and not an arbitrary gamism for balancing purposes), they would be dominated by direct fire grenade launchers and possibly various forms of combined weapons (say a laser rifle with an underbarrel kinetic shotgun attachment)...which don't exist in this game because they would work too well. And that's the problem; when something, that should exist, given what's possible in the setting, doesn't, because it would work, we have a context-defying gamist absurdity. That this is exactly what FDev was going for doesn't help, because it makes it extremely unlikely the dynamic will ever change, which means those looking for a believable (distinct from realistic) system are never going to get it in this game.
 
which means those looking for a believable (distinct from realistic) system are never going to get it in this game.
Right, we always come to the same conclusion. Some people like you want realism, tending to a military simulation, while others (FDev, the mainstream, me, ...) only care about gameplay and "fun", tending to an arcade / e-sport.

But the elephant in the room to me is then : hasn't been Elite ship combat exactly like that since day one?
 
Right, we always come to the same conclusion. Some people like you want realism, tending to a military simulation, while others (FDev, the mainstream, me, ...) only care about gameplay and "fun", tending to an arcade / e-sport.

I want verisimilitude or plausibility, which are quite distinct from realism, and which I feel are more fun and provide better gameplay potential than arcade/arena type shooters. Not that I can't enjoy Quake, Unreal Tournament, or Space Invaders, but that's not the sort of experience that we were setup for with EDO, not the sort of experience that meshes with the setting, and not what I was looking for.

But the elephant in the room to me is then : hasn't been Elite ship combat exactly like that since day one?

To a significant degree, yes. However, the gamisms are, or at least were, a bit less overt and the concessions a bit more understandable. The bigger difference is that there aren't any other first-person space sim MMOs, so no matter how flawed the base Elite: Dangerous game is, it's the best of it's kind, by virtue of being the only one of it's kind (that isn't long defunct, or as yet unreleased). The same cannot be said for EDO's shooter component...as a standalone experience, the combat is not up to snuff with the rest of what's out there. It has to skate by on it's flawed integration with the overarching space game.
 
[...]

But the elephant in the room to me is then : hasn't been Elite ship combat exactly like that since day one?
In the context of your discussion, yes.

Generally speaking, I'd say no. It was way better before Engineering was added in my opinion.
 
The same cannot be said for EDO's shooter component...as a standalone experience, the combat is not up to snuff with the rest of what's out there.
I understand why you're not attracted by OD shooting but, on a PvP level, I disagree that it's inferior to other FPS. The current gameplay makes it very competitive, fun and videogenic. To me the main issue of OD is match-making (and perf) and that's why people don't fully appreciate it.

It was way better before Engineering was added in my opinion.
I'm not a big fan of engineering neither. For PvP it creates a big unfairness issue for newcomers. But I understand that it brings other good stuffs, like PvE adventures for the grind. Like for ships, I'm more into a CQC mindset.
 
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Deleted member 182079

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I understand that you're not attracted by OD shooting but, on a PvP level, I disagree that it's inferior to other FPS. The current gameplay makes it very competitive, fun and videogenic. To me the main issue of OD is match-making (and perf) and that's why people don't fully appreciate it.
I suppose we all have our preferences, and while my previous FPS MP experience dates back quite a few years now (BF3 was the last I played), I greatly enjoyed BFBC2 in particular, which I played on my Playstation 3 last decade two decades ago, which offered stuff like semi-destructible scenery, very different types of customisable weaponry (including a proper sniper rifle and rocket launchers etc.), various types of vehicles and defenses against them and so on.

I don't mind the FPS combat in Elite apart from the irritating shield mechanic, the constant weapon switching and reloading (if you prefer to use laser/kinetic which I do) and the still very sub-par performance (at least BFBC2 ran at a rock solid 30fps at all times so it wasn't a distraction like it is here), but I can't ever see myself getting into on-foot PvP as it doesn't appeal to me and don't really see the point of it in this game (similar to ship PvP really). I definitely feel EDO is inferior on many levels to other FPS games, but then I also think it's a bit unfair to compare it to dedicated ones. It still doesn't tickle me as much as those dedicated shooters would, and I'd have preferred a heavier focus on non-shooty on-foot gameplay as I always felt Elite Feet was better suited to build immersion rather than serve as mainly pew-pew fodder.
 
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