This game desperately needs Player Trading NON pay cosmetics and a TRADE HUB.

In E: D I would consider twinking to be granting newly reset accounts access to credits and equipment that would require significant play-time to acquire. These accounts need not be new players - just players seeking to remain anonymous until they gain sufficient reason to reset their account again, change their name and regain anonymity.

ok, thanks for qualifying that, I think I covered you with my response, still think it's something that would hurt the game?

no thanks

stop that, silly idea.

just open to abuse, griefing and camping.... lots and lots of camping, a whole lot of gratuitous camping

I'd love to see someone camp me in solo. And additoinally, I'd love to know that if I go to a trading post in open, I run the risk of encountering an amused canine, that might be something I would seek as well.

Really, you guys keep seeing problems where there are none, in my opinion.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
ok, thanks for qualifying that, I think I covered you with my response, still think it's something that would hurt the game?

Yup.

I don't expect that Frontier will remove the need for players to actually play the game to acquire Engineer modifications either.
 
Yup.

I don't expect that Frontier will remove the need for players to actually play the game to acquire Engineer modifications either.

I'm afraid for me to accept that, you'll need to come up with some kind of reasoning that presents a new argument for some kind of issue it would cause, or refutes one of the existing points that I've already covered.

You said twinks, I provided reasoning why that won't hurt anyone. Why do you still disagree? Please elaborate, let's talk about it, I'm prepared to be wrong if you can make me believe it. Are you prepared to accept that you might be overreacting a little on this? If so, let's have a debate!
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I'm afraid for me to accept that, you'll need to come up with some kind of reasoning that presents a new argument for some kind of issue it would cause, or refutes one of the existing points that I've already covered.

You said twinks, I provided reasoning why that won't hurt anyone. Why do you still disagree? Please elaborate, let's talk about it, I'm prepared to be wrong if you can make me believe it. Are you prepared to accept that you might be overreacting a little on this? If so, let's have a debate!

I don't share the opinion that the expectation that anonymous players in ships and equipment that they have not earned "won't hurt anyone".

Our opinions differ - there's no need to agree.
 
I don't share the opinion that the expectation that anonymous players in ships and equipment that they have not earned "won't hurt anyone".

Our opinions differ - there's no need to agree.

I don't need you to agree, but I do need you to provide reasoning for your contrary opinions, otherwise you're just a flat-earther, no offense. If you want to just agree to disagree, I'm cool with that, but you lost a little of my respect here, cos I tried to engage you on something that seems to matter to you (and certainly does to me) and you ended up just saying 'cos that's what I think, ok?', well, no, not ok on a 'discussion' forum, but whatever.

It has been said for a few years now. It won't happen ;)

I wonder why? Perhaps it's because it's because people keep shooting it down without giving it due process?
 
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I have met and interacted with many people in ED. Either through the alien bases, CGs, fun poi like mnt. Neverest or canyons on Ariel in Sol. Obviously using 3rd party "internet" tools makes all this easier, but we don't need a place to meet.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I don't need you to agree, but I do need you to provide reasoning for your contrary opinions, otherwise you're just a flat-earther, no offense. If you want to just agree to disagree, I'm cool with that, but you lost a little of my respect here, cos I tried to engage you on something that seems to matter to you (and certainly does to me) and you ended up just saying 'cos that's what I think, ok?', well, no, not ok on a 'discussion' forum, but whatever.

The ability to credit transfer (through ridiculously priced sales in an Auction House) and outfit ships with unearned modules would permit a form of Guild Banking to fund, equip and cover the losses of other players - those players would not need to be overly concerned about personal bankruptcy (losing a ship) as they would (probably) be covered by the Guild - the same would not be able to be said of the players that did not have access to a (practically) inexhaustible credit supply. Add the ability to change CMDR name on a whim to that mix and the mischief potential is greatly increased.
 
This game desperately needs Player Trading NON pay cosmetics and a TRADE HUB. Really every MMO I have ever seen relies on this simple formula of bringing players togeather. If there was a trade hub where players HAD to go to trade. And NPC missions. Etc other then procedurally generated crap. It would Fix all the talks about Wide as an Ocean Shallow as a puddle.

If said Trade Hub was available in Open only. That would lead to some very very interesting events! :D
 

Powderpanic

Banned
I haven't read all this thread but thumbed through.

Standard replies from people who don't want any form of actual depth or real player interaction.

ED could learn a lot from other MMO's and from EvE but all the time it ignores proven mechanics and just caters to the kick starter ball and chain, it will continue to be a single player game with zero depth but wow doesn't it look pretty.

The best thing that will ever happen to this game will be SC actually getting released.

All the players that want Depth and Challenge will jump ship and leave all the players who just want to grind a simulator to their own narrow minded ways.

Or

FDEV will see lots of its player base leave and then start to make real changes, giving real player interaction and depth to the game.

Until then, ED is the best of the small number in this genre.
I know the day that No Mans Sky came out, most of FDEV sat their hoping and praying the game sucked. Lucky for them it did.

I honestly don't understand the resistance to people asking for depth in Elite.

Its not like you cannot totally ignore it by hiding in Solo or Player groups.
 
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If said Trade Hub was available in Open only. That would lead to some very very interesting events! :D

I imagine a player-to-player trade-hub would be a rather dull place in Solo mode.

Course, I suppose there's always PG mode as well.
"Pay $5 a month to be part of my PG and I hook you up wid all da bangin mod's (see my eBay auctions for further details)"
 
And that would be how?

We already have players that admit, on these forums, that they farm and sell credits after all. I don't see FD having a magic bullet that would stop the influx once people were able to actually easily trade in the game.
Sure, credit farming in ED is occurring and if it become even more easy to transfer values to another cmdr it will be even move Common.
 
The ability to credit transfer (through ridiculously priced sales in an Auction House) and outfit ships with unearned modules would permit a form of Guild Banking to fund, equip and cover the losses of other players - those players would not need to be overly concerned about personal bankruptcy (losing a ship) as they would (probably) be covered by the Guild - the same would not be able to be said of the players that did not have access to a (practically) inexhaustible credit supply. Add the ability to change CMDR name on a whim to that mix and the mischief potential is greatly increased.

No credit transfer without a sale of goods, we are talking about an auction house, specifically, but let's add guilds, cos that's important to me as well.

What you describe would rely on players being able to trade credits AT the rebuy screen, I don't think anyone is asking for that. Or are you suggesting that a guild makes sure that all its members have the rebuy for the ship that they are flying all the time? Cos that's impossible. Alternatively, if credits were granted after the fact, to buy new equipment etc., firstly, I can't imagine any guildmaster that would do that, in fact, I'd fire the player for flying without rebuy, but let's go with your example, and secondly, the rest of the guild would be up in arms. However, yet MORE importantly, that repurchased ship won't include the engineering which is the 'meat' of a ship, and cannot be bought with credits.

By the way, in Elite, costly death is just another random mechanic that has stayed because players need a credit sink (for the exact reason I keep stating, nothing worth getting can be bought with credits). A credit sink is indicative of a problem on its own (poorly planned game economy), so hardly stands up as a reason on its own to prevent the faster acquisition of credits, its existence implies that credits are already easy to get (and they are). As I say, I would never 'give' gold from the guild to a member (I have managed three guilds in three MMOs and never covered anyone's costs, the guild money was for buying mats to make potions before the raids so that our chemists didn't need to spend their own resources when we did group activities). Again, if gold acquisition in Elite were difficult, or it could buy you anything important, I'd be on your side, and against anything that could introduce gold sellers, but it seems to me that Elite was ALREADY designed to prevent the acquisition of what's important with credits (like all good MMOs, of course), so it DOESN'T have the same implementation issues that a less well designed game would. I have SIGNIFICANT experience in this matter, and can assure you this would only be a good thing in Elite, it would add so many gameplay options for miners, pirates, capitalists, those who just like buying and selling, etc.

I once bought gold in wow as a guildmaster, a lot of it. I had to, it was that or take it from the guild bank, which would have been far less honourable. We had just taken on a new Paladin tank. Paladin tank was my role, but I was fine tanking on the Druid as well, so I had to respec a load of top tier gear, suddenly. The gear itself I had obtained the hard way, rolling on drops for my off class as my guildmates allowed me during hardcore raiding, but I needed the gold to buy crafting materials and some basic pieces etc. I couldn't very well ask my guildmates, oh sorry guys, need to grind gold for a couple of weeks, we'll drop down the world rankings like a stone while I do that, but it's ok, when I'm back, we'll get back into it!

I imagine a player-to-player trade-hub would be a rather dull place in Solo mode.

Course, I suppose there's always PG mode as well.
"Pay $5 a month to be part of my PG and I hook you up wid all da bangin mod's (see my eBay auctions for further details)"

The BGS is common among all modes, an auction house could be too (I didn't miss the part you italicised, I just chose to elaborate :) )
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
No credit transfer without a sale of goods, we are talking about an auction house, specifically, but let's add guilds, cos that's important to me as well.

Just list 20t of biowaste for "only" 1M Cr./t - a trivial way to transfer credits (unless the maximum permissible sale price was controlled by the game, of course).

What you describe would rely on players being able to trade credits AT the rebuy screen, I don't think anyone is asking for that.

It doesn't - with a little care and attention the member could be topped up, as required, by the banker through the auction house.

Or are you suggesting that a guild makes sure that all its members have the rebuy for the ship that they are flying all the time? Cos that's impossible. Alternatively, if credits were granted after the fact, to buy new equipment etc., firstly, I can't imagine any guildmaster that would do that, in fact, I'd fire the player for flying without rebuy, but let's go with your example, and secondly, the rest of the guild would be up in arms. However, yet MORE importantly, that repurchased ship won't include the engineering which is the 'meat' of a ship, and cannot be bought with credits.

Whether such losses would attract any consequence would depend on the aims of the guild in question (and their credit harvesting capabilities). If Engineered modules were for sale on the market then outfitting a ship would be trivial.

I have SIGNIFICANT experience in this matter, and can assure you this would only be a good thing in Elite, it would add so many gameplay options for miners, pirates, capitalists, those who just like buying and selling, etc.

Whether it would be a good thing (or not) remains a matter of opinion - and avoiding unintended consequences would require quite some care and, very probably, the game limiting transactions between players.

I once bought gold in wow as a guildmaster, a lot of it. I had to, it was that or take it from the guild bank, which would have been far less honourable. We had just taken on a new Paladin tank. Paladin tank was my role, but I was fine tanking on the Druid as well, so I had to respec a load of top tier gear, suddenly. The gear itself I had obtained the hard way, rolling on drops for my off class as my guildmates allowed me during hardcore raiding, but I needed the gold to buy crafting materials and some basic pieces etc. I couldn't very well ask my guildmates, oh sorry guys, need to grind gold for a couple of weeks, we'll drop down the world rankings like a stone while I do that, but it's ok, when I'm back, we'll get back into it!

In this game the player requires to earn their own ranks / reputation to gain particular ships and equipment and modifications (as well as gather the materials / data to do so) - Frontier didn't implement the Engineers with a non-credit "currency" base for no reason.
 
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ED could learn a lot from other MMO's and from EvE but all the time it ignores proven mechanics and just caters to the kick starter ball and chain, it will continue to be a single player game with zero depth but wow doesn't it look pretty.

I don't think it's the single player mode that makes it shallow. Perhaps trying to be both a single and multiplayer game at the same time is to blame.. People are arguing whether or not they want ED: WoW, whereas I'd give up Open for Solo in a heartbeat if I could have ED: Skyrim, but that's just me.
 
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ED could learn a lot from other MMO's and from EvE but all the time it ignores proven mechanics and just caters to the kick starter ball and chain, it will continue to be a single player game with zero depth but wow doesn't it look pretty.

I'm a veteran EVE player (10+ years) and totally love both games. Introducing ideas from EVE into ED would be a horrible idea, especially when it comes to player economy and credit/wares transfer. The games are designed to do different things and both are great at it. A player market has as many advantages as it has drawbacks (and I'm not even talking about real money trading but things that are bad for players in a direct way), and first of all it needs a game designed from ground up to work with it, ED is the opposite of such a game.

I'm just happy Fdev has enough reason to carry out their own vision and not introduce random ideas from other games just because they seem to work in an entirely different game environment.
 
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