This game desperately needs Player Trading NON pay cosmetics and a TRADE HUB.

[Stealthie]

I'll give it to you, nice semantic play.

Alas, "progress" here does not actually mean to smoothly walk in a direction (that being a metaphor and all) but to develop.

I don't want "what other games do". That is, well, what other games do. I want Elite to do what Elite does.

True enough.

I guess i was responding to your metaphor rather than the sentiment behind it, which I completely agree with.

When you think about most of the "iconic" games that have been around, there's usually something about them which makes them so noteworthy, although I'm not sure it's always easy to identify.
Games like Halo, Skyrim and Half life 2 all had it (whatever "it" is) but I'm not sure ED really has an "it" of it's own yet.

Done right, I suspect that space-legs could be the "it" that makes ED a properly iconic game, succeeding where other games have either failed or have not yet been released.
It's a shame FDev doesn't seem to be pursuing this as tenaciously as they probably should be.

 

[wolferr]

Love this idea, as long as we get a trading hub out here in Colonia.

 

[shadragon]

Unlockable cosmetics would be wonderful,

And the comments about "the grind" would increase dramatically.

You could give a player a billion credits and an A-rated Anaconda at start-up and still get whines that it wasn't a Corvette.

 

[Zambrick]

If this comes to fruition, then be prepared to never be able to afford anything created by players.

You invite gold sellers into the game no matter what you do. There is no situation that player trading can be enabled that does not end in gold/credit selling.

There is no compromise, there is nothing to put into place. As soon as you introduce in game currency changing hands between players, then thats all you need. You could even put a cap on how much they can charge for items. That wont matter either because the cash trade will be based off of volume instead of individual item cost.

For all the same people in this thread that have whined about long range trading and places like quince, you would think that you wouldnt want to create something 10 times worse.

 

[Aashenfox]

If this comes to fruition, then be prepared to never be able to afford anything created by players.

You invite gold sellers into the game no matter what you do. There is no situation that player trading can be enabled that does not end in gold/credit selling.

There is no compromise, there is nothing to put into place. As soon as you introduce in game currency changing hands between players, then thats all you need. You could even put a cap on how much they can charge for items. That wont matter either because the cash trade will be based off of volume instead of individual item cost.

For all the same people in this thread that have whined about long range trading and places like quince, you would think that you wouldnt want to create something 10 times worse.

Do you think that anything that's ever gone bad anywhere always goes bad everywhere? WoW was not ruined by gold sellers. Gold sellers are not even a major issue in the game. Why? Because you can't buy the best gear OR SKILL with gold. The same applies exactly for Elite and is why gold sellers are a small price to pay to bring meaning to professions, to add depth and alternative gameplay, to finally be able to blaze your own trail (cos right now, let's face it, that's a load of rubbish, you HAVE to do combat, you HAVE to do exploring, you HAVE to do mining, you HAVE to do trading, in order to get an optimal ship for the thing that you want to do and can't do because the game has you doing stuff you don't want to do).

 

[Sylveria]

And the comments about "the grind" would increase dramatically.

You could give a player a billion credits and an A-rated Anaconda at start-up and still get whines that it wasn't a Corvette.

^ This one gets it.

Why even bother playing a game if there's really no challenge involved to begin with?

If you really hate the "grind" in a game, just watch a movie or something. You'll get maximum satisfaction with little effort.

 

[Erasmus Boone]

This game desperately needs Player Trading NON pay cosmetics and a TRADE HUB. Really every MMO I have ever seen relies on this simple formula of bringing players togeather. If there was a trade hub where players HAD to go to trade. And NPC missions. Etc other then procedurally generated crap. It would Fix all the talks about Wide as an Ocean Shallow as a puddle.

I have very little experience with MMO's so I can't really comment on if your trade hub would be great or awful like others suggest.
I do have lots of experience with humans and if you think anything would 'Fix all the talks about Wide as an Ocean Shallow as a puddle.' well I envy your optimism.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But you are just as jaded.

If PVP want to get mats to build their winged deathmachines, so they can be on the same level as other PVP players and are willing to pay a lot to players who want nothing to do with PVP. Players who would rather mine or explore or run fun multistage missions to obtain mats, to then sell into an economy and make themselves credits... Where is the issue?

It sounds very much you want to force PVP players to grind for mats because you don't like PVP players having what they want to play their game without having to suffer PVE to achieve it. That's pretty selfish.

There's just one thing iffy with this sentiment.

Right now, if a PvPer is flying around in his sooped up FDL, the mentality is: worked for it, earned it, deserves the advantage gained. And before you set off, this is a sentiment expressed by many PvPers and one I agree with. So don't take this as some PvEer out to make your life miserable.

We all agree I feel that by now credits have pretty much become meaningless. So when you say you are willing to pay a lot, how much do you have in mind for a piece of polonium for instance that would make you hesitate buying a substantial amount of it? Because in all of this, if it is meant to add gameplay, you need to have to make a decision. If you can buy all your needs in that regard without blinking or noticing any change in your bankaccount, it's not gameplay is it?

I feel that is the big issue here. The argument is made: it will create a lot of gameplay and drag this game out of it's shallowness. If the argument had been: look, I just don't care about the grind and I want an easier route to obtain these materials, that's also valid, but, well, that's not the general sentiment I'm reading.

 

[Aashenfox]

There's just one thing iffy with this sentiment.

Right now, if a PvPer is flying around in his sooped up FDL, the mentality is: worked for it, earned it, deserves the advantage gained. And before you set off, this is a sentiment expressed by many PvPers and one I agree with. So don't take this as some PvEer out to make your life miserable.

We all agree I feel that by now credits have pretty much become meaningless. So when you say you are willing to pay a lot, how much do you have in mind for a piece of polonium for instance that would make you hesitate buying a substantial amount of it? Because in all of this, if it is meant to add gameplay, you need to have to make a decision. If you can buy all your needs in that regard without blinking or noticing any change in your bankaccount, it's not gameplay is it?

I feel that is the big issue here. The argument is made: it will create a lot of gameplay and drag this game out of it's shallowness. If the argument had been: look, I just don't care about the grind and I want an easier route to obtain these materials, that's also valid, but, well, that's not the general sentiment I'm reading.

It is no wonder you are the most repped member of the forum. Well said, sir.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It is no wonder you are the most repped member of the forum. Well said, sir.

Holy carp ... I actually am. :O

edit: off to the claim to fame thread!

 

[Zambrick]

This game desperately needs Player Trading NON pay cosmetics and a TRADE HUB. Really every MMO I have ever seen relies on this simple formula of bringing players togeather. If there was a trade hub where players HAD to go to trade. And NPC missions. Etc other then procedurally generated crap. It would Fix all the talks about Wide as an Ocean Shallow as a puddle.

Get rid of the Player Trading credit farming exploit that you have proposed and I am in for the other 2. We dont need credit farmers in here screwing up our game using bots, cheats, and exploits. We have enough of that already.

 

[Lanzelund Zornbold]

So, I get it trading Hubs are bad for some reason. But Player to Player money transfer?
Whats the big deal about that? Still it's a sim so trading money should be included. And it would open up so much possibilitys. In criminal ways and also in legal ways.
Also if players are into RP then they should beg for it since it would open a whole lot of possibilitys to corruption and therefore people who avoid it or fight it. Until now there is no deeper meaning to PvP (what could be fixed if the factions actually meant something).
With Player to Player money transfer players could start raiding others for the credits or players could give out bountys to others for to hunt someone down etc. Also beginners with small cargo hold could still earn a good amount of money if the could just take money instead of goods. And traders could pay people to let them pass instead of giving out his goods since he may reduce the money loss this way.
It would actually implement a system which provides a moral compass that could be reflected by the community.
The dicission to trade or not to trade slaves is for example irrelevant since there is no draw back what so ever if you do it. But betraying players because of money makes you infamous within the real life community.

 

[Zambrick]

Do you think that anything that's ever gone bad anywhere always goes bad everywhere? WoW was not ruined by gold sellers. Gold sellers are not even a major issue in the game. Why? Because you can't buy the best gear OR SKILL with gold. The same applies exactly for Elite and is why gold sellers are a small price to pay to bring meaning to professions, to add depth and alternative gameplay, to finally be able to blaze your own trail (cos right now, let's face it, that's a load of rubbish, you HAVE to do combat, you HAVE to do exploring, you HAVE to do mining, you HAVE to do trading, in order to get an optimal ship for the thing that you want to do and can't do because the game has you doing stuff you don't want to do).

Yes they most certainly do effect prices especially in the auction houses.

Raid Potion Mats and anything to do with Raids has been inflated to the point of absurdity. Top end Enchants, Runes, Potions, and Food are still the most expensive things in the game. All because of gold sellers. Bags, which are the biggest seller in AH have been priced out of everyones reach accept for someone who has been top level for multiple months if not years.

WoW is an old community that has been able to deal with gold sellers solely due to the fact that its so old and wealthy, but they certainly do not control them. Gold sellers are the reason why Crafting Mats are so expensive. Its gotten so bad that Blizzard had to find a way to utilize the trillions upon trillions of gold saved up, by offering to allow gold to buy play time. Nobody would have had to become that rich had it not been for the rapid inflation caused by gold sellers.


Not to mention that you may have to compete for materials out in the wild from these gold sellers out there running Bots to collect mats. So even if you are doing crafting legit, you still have to compete with the gold sellers even if you are not buying from them.

 

[Zambrick]

There's just one thing iffy with this sentiment.

Right now, if a PvPer is flying around in his sooped up FDL, the mentality is: worked for it, earned it, deserves the advantage gained. And before you set off, this is a sentiment expressed by many PvPers and one I agree with. So don't take this as some PvEer out to make your life miserable.

We all agree I feel that by now credits have pretty much become meaningless. So when you say you are willing to pay a lot, how much do you have in mind for a piece of polonium for instance that would make you hesitate buying a substantial amount of it? Because in all of this, if it is meant to add gameplay, you need to have to make a decision. If you can buy all your needs in that regard without blinking or noticing any change in your bankaccount, it's not gameplay is it?

I feel that is the big issue here. The argument is made: it will create a lot of gameplay and drag this game out of it's shallowness. If the argument had been: look, I just don't care about the grind and I want an easier route to obtain these materials, that's also valid, but, well, that's not the general sentiment I'm reading.

This would be a complete non issue had FDEV done a better job of implementing Engineers and crafting.

IMO Engineers should not have been introduced until much much later. But since it has, then they need to remove 90% of the reliance on RNG for Material gathering and Mod rolling. There should be no such thing as rolling for stats unless its a special effect or additional stats.

There should be no reason to get worse rolls on a Grade 5 upgrade than your top roll of Grade 4. That happens constantly.

 

[Aashenfox]

Yes they most certainly do effect prices especially in the auction houses.

Raid Potion Mats and anything to do with Raids has been inflated to the point of absurdity. Top end Enchants, Runes, Potions, and Food are still the most expensive things in the game. All because of gold sellers. Bags, which are the biggest seller in AH have been priced out of everyones reach accept for someone who has been top level for multiple months if not years.

WoW is an old community that has been able to deal with gold sellers solely due to the fact that its so old and wealthy, but they certainly do not control them. Gold sellers are the reason why Crafting Mats are so expensive. Its gotten so bad that Blizzard had to find a way to utilize the trillions upon trillions of gold saved up, by offering to allow gold to buy play time. Nobody would have had to become that rich had it not been for the rapid inflation caused by gold sellers.


Not to mention that you may have to compete for materials out in the wild from these gold sellers out there running Bots to collect mats. So even if you are doing crafting legit, you still have to compete with the gold sellers even if you are not buying from them.

I think this is a slight overstatement, because people were saying the exact same things back in my day and it was an overstatement then too. Or if I am to be convinced I have to believe somehow things got dramatically worse in the last 2 years. I admit that wow survived it because f the size of the playerbase being such a massive economy that even the gold sellers couldn't RADICALLY influence it (those mats you speak of were always expensive as the gathering is a royal pita), where other MMOs were badly affected by it, but that is down to deisng and I STRONGLY believe that Elite's design lends itself to an implementation where, yes, player traders would encourage gold sellers, but they'd have precious little impact on the game. Lest we forget, In Elite, there is always another way to obtain something (fly across space for it). Also, to be fair, if you were hardcore raiding, you could afford those mats and pots, and besides, many guilds had profession sharing so you could get free mats by providing from your profession, etc, another thing that people rail against in Elite that could SUPPORT the other systems the game needs. I DO see what you're saying, and it would have 'some' effect. What I'm saying is that the game wouldn't be ruined by it, especially in Elite's case, as we don't need raiding pots or mats for regular content that would drive those kinds of inside markets, and gold can't buy anything important in Elite (rep or high level engineering). Sorry for typos, can't be bothered to go back and correct.

 

[Dale Emasiri]

There's just one thing iffy with this sentiment.

Right now, if a PvPer is flying around in his sooped up FDL, the mentality is: worked for it, earned it, deserves the advantage gained. And before you set off, this is a sentiment expressed by many PvPers and one I agree with. So don't take this as some PvEer out to make your life miserable.

We all agree I feel that by now credits have pretty much become meaningless. So when you say you are willing to pay a lot, how much do you have in mind for a piece of polonium for instance that would make you hesitate buying a substantial amount of it? Because in all of this, if it is meant to add gameplay, you need to have to make a decision. If you can buy all your needs in that regard without blinking or noticing any change in your bankaccount, it's not gameplay is it?

I feel that is the big issue here. The argument is made: it will create a lot of gameplay and drag this game out of it's shallowness. If the argument had been: look, I just don't care about the grind and I want an easier route to obtain these materials, that's also valid, but, well, that's not the general sentiment I'm reading.

I've been sat here trying to write a response, and bloody Ziggy here goes and kills it before I get a chance to chip in. Most repped for a reason indeed, I'll give you another... grudgingly...!

Not sure if this is something the team will ever do, but it's an interesting topic to think about. On the one hand it would add an extra layer to the trading, but then it would also open the door to exploitation and insane levels of inflation because as Ziggy says, credits mean very little to a lot of folks - especially those who have everything that they'd ever need credits for. Though I've not, until now, considered item-for-item trading as a possibility for an economic structure... and I'm not going to start now because already that introduces a whole level of complexity and instantly there are flaws with the idea that I'm not equipped to think through.

I'm not convinced that this is something that the game needs. I agree with player interaction, but I don't think player trading is the way that it's going to be achieved. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Jdude1]

The only thing I see a trade center doing (if in fact you can trade polonium) is create a new profession in-game. Material Gatherer's. Now this isn't new gameplay but it would create a reason to land on planets more often and as a explorer I think most people who haven't driven on a planet much are really missing out on a great feature of the game. Give us explorer's a way to access this trade center from the other side of the galaxy and you'll keep your prices for most items down to reasonable levels, either that or explorer's will become the richest in the galaxy

 

[IndigoWyrd]

And the comments about "the grind" would increase dramatically.

You could give a player a billion credits and an A-rated Anaconda at start-up and still get whines that it wasn't a Corvette.

Billion Credits? Check
A-Rated Anaconda? Two of them, check.
Corvette? A-rated, check.
Cutter? A-rated, check.

My complaint? There is nowhere I can go and no amount of credits I can spend, to purchase a single Exquisite Focus Crystal, Thermic Alloy, or Conductive Ceramic.
I have to look for these things, and hope my sacrifices to RNGesus have pleased him - just like everyone else.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I've been sat here trying to write a response, and bloody Ziggy here goes and kills it before I get a chance to chip in. Most repped for a reason indeed, I'll give you another... grudgingly...!

Not sure if this is something the team will ever do, but it's an interesting topic to think about. On the one hand it would add an extra layer to the trading, but then it would also open the door to exploitation and insane levels of inflation because as Ziggy says, credits mean very little to a lot of folks - especially those who have everything that they'd ever need credits for. Though I've not, until now, considered item-for-item trading as a possibility for an economic structure... and I'm not going to start now because already that introduces a whole level of complexity and instantly there are flaws with the idea that I'm not equipped to think through.

I'm not convinced that this is something that the game needs. I agree with player interaction, but I don't think player trading is the way that it's going to be achieved. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though.

Major argument for player to player trading might be exchange of some item other player might need.

I will disagree with inflation or exploitation claims at this point - FD has openly balanced game towards casual players so they can earn Anaconda in few weeks. I don't think it's right, but here we are. Golden sellers really will have nothing to do here, especially as they won't be able to increase XP for players and make them stronger. Only thing they can offer is hundred of millions required to outfit let's say Anaconda, but a) it doesn't make one being able to fly one b) all of that can be mitigated via limiting transfers on let's say 200k in day, or let's say not allowing credit transfer at all and just allow barter directly, without exchanging canisters.

I can agree it is not huge priority item though.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm not convinced that this is something that the game needs. I agree with player interaction, but I don't think player trading is the way that it's going to be achieved. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though.

I don't think anyone could prove you wrong without testing it in a live environment for some time, such as in beta, but I do believe that the perceived evil of gold sellers is (vastly overstated, first of all, but also...) negated by Elite's design (you cannot buy engineering, skill or reputation with gold). A little inflation in Elite would be a good thing, Ziggy said it in his post, too, as have others. Then, when you throw in the fact that I can buy mining goods from miners and tehy can buy CIF from me (because we each hate teh other gathering activity), people are suddenly having a much better time! It was a shame to go down the route with engineers of compelling every player to do every activity in the game EXTENSIVELY in order to have what could be considered a semi optimal ship for the ONE activity that they really wanted to do. I'm really surprised that one got by, where was the guy to stand up and say 'hang on a minute, why is an explorer going to want to get dangerous in combat to unlock an engineer?'

By way of apology, I will accept an auction house and guild system, implemented almost identically to WoW, with no ships or modules available, but engineering mats available, perhaps with a quantity sold per hour, per seller limit, to again discourage the gold sellers, encourage more people to do it, and also keep prices sensible. Make it snappy please Cheers.