Newcomer / Intro This game will make you want to design your own game.

OMG...i mean, sure i can get a steep learning curve, but Jesus, "plotting course failed", 2 stars next to each other 7.8 ly, ok i understand that there is a reason, WHAT is the reason??? the game will not tell you, i will need to find out by searching trough the wiki, this forum and in the end taking advanced astrophysics courses. How do you salvage information? Hehe...you need to have at least 45 years experience on the game and have a bachelor in ship construction & management. And many other. I open the game once every 3-4 weeks try to do a mission get stranded selfdestruct and leave.

The motto of the people that made this was: "A space game is hard to make so we made it hard to play"
 
OMG...i mean, sure i can get a steep learning curve, but Jesus, "plotting course failed", 2 stars next to each other 7.8 ly, ok i understand that there is a reason, WHAT is the reason??? the game will not tell you, i will need to find out by searching trough the wiki, this forum and in the end taking advanced astrophysics courses. How do you salvage information? Hehe...you need to have at least 45 years experience on the game and have a bachelor in ship construction & management. And many other. I open the game once every 3-4 weeks try to do a mission get stranded selfdestruct and leave.

The motto of the people that made this was: "A space game is hard to make so we made it hard to play"

You'll get really far in Elite with this kind of approach.

Plotting failed, because your ship can't make a jump. As for the information, I'd recommend starting with tutorial videos and then training missions.
If you have questions, afterwards, come back, We'll be glad to answer them.

(If they will be a bit better than "why am I starting the game with the worst possible equipment?". I'm sure you can answer that one yourself, if you're into game design.)
 
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I`ve actually wanted to design games to make them harder. Or in other words more realistic. Although realistic does not always equal hard.


Games today do not challenge the brain at all.
 
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Give it time Dary...more time than what you've given it so far. The learning curve can be steep but if you determine that a bunch of 1s' and 0's are not going to prove that real brain cells don't have what it takes...well it gets easier.

I've been playing 2 years come the middle of this July. I've died a few times...probably more than a few but likely a heck of a lot less than most. All you need to do is pay attention.

Not having conversed with you more than through this one thread I can take an educated guess at what your trouble might be...is it possible you're ADHD? My education comes from (BTW) my being such an individual (ADHD that is). Born that way you know and I'm 61 now. My biggest problem in life was having little patience for things. Having learned early on how not to self medicate (beyond reason:x) I accomplished quite a bit and in good standing.

So...OK the pulpit is now vacated[uhh], Try to have fun.

Bizz
 
I`ve actually wanted to design games to make them harder. Or in other words more realistic. Although realistic does not always equal hard.


Games today do not challenge the brain at all.

Frontier certainly know how to chuck a spanner through your intake...I've found nothing is ever easy...no two days are the same, even when doing the same thing . It's not boring, unless you do the same thing all the time

I've just installed EDFX ...and wow talk about blinging the galaxy up and realism..the colours and vibrancy are an eye opener...It makes me want to buy a beluga and go visit a nebula , I didn't know my video card was capable of this....I'm currently stuck in gobsmacked mode:D
 
OMG...i mean, sure i can get a steep learning curve, but Jesus, "plotting course failed", 2 stars next to each other 7.8 ly, ok i understand that there is a reason, WHAT is the reason??? the game will not tell you, i will need to find out by searching trough the wiki, this forum and in the end taking advanced astrophysics courses. How do you salvage information? Hehe...you need to have at least 45 years experience on the game and have a bachelor in ship construction & management. And many other. I open the game once every 3-4 weeks try to do a mission get stranded selfdestruct and leave.

The motto of the people that made this was: "A space game is hard to make so we made it hard to play"

Check your jump range? Though I suppose yes, I suppose it could say "Your jump range is too low"?
Though all the info is in game, you just have to search for it, but yeah..
 
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See, this is where games are these days.

I think Fallout 4 is a terrific game but, even in that, there are really only half a dozen different things to do.
As a result, it's easy for the game dev's to throw in a few tutorial missions which give you an idea of what you need to do and then, if you're fairly smart, you'll figure out all the other stuff you can do with that ability.

In a game like ED, however, the game dev's would go potty trying to create tutorials for ALL the different things you can do.
Tutorial for flying, tutorial for combat, tutorial for navigation, tutorial for exploration, tutorial for trading, tutorial for factions, tutorial for mining, tutorial for bounty-hunting, tutorial for interdictions, tutorial for scanning, tutorial for politics, tutorial for cargo scooping, tutorial for fuel scooping, tutorial for ship upgrades....

You'd end up having played the game for a hundred hours and you'd STILL be doing tutorials and, more importantly, you'd have spent so much time being led by the hand, while you were doing them all, that you wouldn't have a clue what to do when left to your own devices.

Part of the core ideology of ED was that it was "community sourced" and that philosophy applies to learning how to play the game too.
It's an online-only game so you MUST have an internet connection to play it and so you can use that same internet connection to access places like this, or Youtube, to get an ocean of information about how to do stuff within the game.

Half the fun of playing ED is getting an inkling that something is possible and then discussing it in places like this before going to try it out for yourself. [up]
 
OMG...i mean, sure i can get a steep learning curve, but Jesus, "plotting course failed", 2 stars next to each other 7.8 ly, ok i understand that there is a reason, WHAT is the reason??? the game will not tell you, i will need to find out by searching trough the wiki, this forum and in the end taking advanced astrophysics courses. How do you salvage information? Hehe...you need to have at least 45 years experience on the game and have a bachelor in ship construction & management. And many other. I open the game once every 3-4 weeks try to do a mission get stranded selfdestruct and leave.

The motto of the people that made this was: "A space game is hard to make so we made it hard to play"

You obviously have not heard of the saying "If all else fails read the ******* manual".
You should try it.
One more thing - if you can't figure this out you have absolutely zero chance of success with astrophysics courses.
 
See, this is where games are these days.

I think Fallout 4 is a terrific game but, even in that, there are really only half a dozen different things to do.
As a result, it's easy for the game dev's to throw in a few tutorial missions which give you an idea of what you need to do and then, if you're fairly smart, you'll figure out all the other stuff you can do with that ability.

In a game like ED, however, the game dev's would go potty trying to create tutorials for ALL the different things you can do.
Tutorial for flying, tutorial for combat, tutorial for navigation, tutorial for exploration, tutorial for trading, tutorial for factions, tutorial for mining, tutorial for bounty-hunting, tutorial for interdictions, tutorial for scanning, tutorial for politics, tutorial for cargo scooping, tutorial for fuel scooping, tutorial for ship upgrades....

You'd end up having played the game for a hundred hours and you'd STILL be doing tutorials and, more importantly, you'd have spent so much time being led by the hand, while you were doing them all, that you wouldn't have a clue what to do when left to your own devices.

Part of the core ideology of ED was that it was "community sourced" and that philosophy applies to learning how to play the game too.
It's an online-only game so you MUST have an internet connection to play it and so you can use that same internet connection to access places like this, or Youtube, to get an ocean of information about how to do stuff within the game.

Half the fun of playing ED is getting an inkling that something is possible and then discussing it in places like this before going to try it out for yourself. [up]

Thanx Stealthie, for being the first on this thread to avoid the git-gud, git-used-to routine... (six others could not) However, it still is not very helpful to Daryavius, as you are making an opinion on tutorials that i do not agree with. I have played a lot of different games in my time and it is not difficult at all, to help newbies some of the tricks through tutorial missions. I always like to refer to Guildwars 2, where they had like a small universe to start in to learn the ropes and after earning, say 4 million credits, you come into the real world. They could easily do this and only promote you when you 1: made four succesfull landings in a row, 2: shot five ships in a row without being shot to death yourself, 3: used pips succesfully in a combat, made a vulture without heat management problems (oh sorry, that would be later in the game <sarcasm off>) etc. you get the drift: done some mining, done an SRV, done planetary landing, done scanning and selling, done trading a bit, bought a rare commoditie, etc.

For Daryavius: the game does not become easier, but you'll get used to it, if you persevere. And I can honestly say that the game is very rich and i am sure you'll find something in the game that attract you soo much, that you'll take all the bad things (and there are lots of those!) for granted. No, really, sarcasm is off: I really think the game has lots to offer, the only downside is that they made lots of stuff far too complicated, but apparently, when you become Elite, you are so used-to-it that you also will tell others to git-gud and totally forget how much you struggled in the beginning. ED is really a terrific game, but for some obscure reasons, FD tries very hard to keep new players off. Maybe the servers are not capable of dealing with greater numbers, or they have some bet, i dunno. Fact is, this game good be the best game ever, if they would make it just a bit more understandable, or a little less hard on the newbies. But they choose not to do so.

So, believe me and persever and be a happy player for several years, and do yourself and me a favour and keep yelling to everything that game is too hard, or you'll end up like al the "others", that tell you to git-gug and git-used-to or that you have zero chance to have succes with astrophysics courses (that you probably never wanted to do anyway), and just keep trying stuff until you find the stuff that you love (mining, trading, passenger missions, etc. ) and you can really be a happy player!

More tips? Well, look at your max range in outfitting or on your right screen (key 4); there are three numbers there, the lowest being for when you are laden with stuff. Probably that one is below 7.9 ly. I guess you bought something that brought you under a reasonable Jump rate. For some reason, FD does not warn you for that and assumes that you agree to buy a module that will make you jump inefficient... Well, surprise, surprise, this is one of these astrophysics thing that you have to learn..
Hope this helps...
 
See, this is where games are these days.

I think Fallout 4 is a terrific game but, even in that, there are really only half a dozen different things to do.
As a result, it's easy for the game dev's to throw in a few tutorial missions which give you an idea of what you need to do and then, if you're fairly smart, you'll figure out all the other stuff you can do with that ability.

I thought F04 was so dumbed down that i installed about 50 mods that got rid of ALL the handholds except my health bar and let me get on with it without having a dozen baby pop-ups warning me of everything. I don`t need all those bells and whistles telling me the most obvious things like I`m stupid. Without mods I would not have bought it.

Games these days simply don`t tax the mind at all, with Elite being an exception... for now.
 
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Fixed the OP for you, so that someone might actually help you:
Please help. I'm having difficulty plotting a course to a star 7.8ly away. The game keeps giving me the message "plotting course failed". I'm in the starting sidewinder.

Happy to help, since you asked so nicely.

The course plotter tells you your ship's jump range near the bottom of the screen. There is a slider there so you can adjust it to allow for cargo - but this won't help you here other than to see that your jump range is less than 7.8ly. It's likel to be 7.56 with a full tank and will drop to 6.96 with a full cargo hhold.

There are several things you can do to increase your jump range.
  1. Empty your fuel tank - will get you to 7.79ly so not enough. And running out of fuel is embarassing.
  2. Sell equipment - selling your lasers will give you a range of 8.26, but is 7.56 with a full cargo hold. So this might be enough for you.
  3. Upgrade your jump drive - 6,000 credits will get you a D-rated drive with 9.2ly range.
  4. Upgrade other modules to reduce weight - D-rated is usually the lightest. All modules D-rated will give you 10.86ly
  5. Buy a ship with a longer range. Not an option for you just yet.
  6. Collect materials to give you a jump boost. 2 vanadium + 1 germanium will give you a +25% boost to your range for one jump.
  7. Supercharge your drive in a white dwarf or neutron star. You'll get a one-off 50% boost from a white dwarf, 300% (I think) from a neutron star. Probably not one nearby.
  8. Get an engineer to upgrade your jump drive for longer range
  9. Get an engineer to reduce the weight of some of your modules

Only options 1-4 are really available to you now. Try storing your weapons (don't sell these just yet as you won't get anything for them), but be aware that you will be defenceless for a while. Then upgrade as you can affort it.
 
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Thanx Stealthie, for being the first on this thread to avoid the git-gud, git-used-to routine... (six others could not) However, it still is not very helpful to Daryavius, as you are making an opinion on tutorials that i do not agree with....

True enough.
I was simply addressing one aspect of the discussion, regarding why ED doesn't "hold your hand" when you start playing.

I tend to find that RTS's often provide a good example of badly designed tutorials.

They usually go something along the lines of; build a command centre, now build a refinery, now build a barracks, now build a factory, now build a research-centre, now research something, now upgrade your factory, now upgrade your command centre, now build an airfield, now research something, now upgrade your airfield...

And now you've won.

And you really haven't got a clue why you won.
The tutorials haven't bothered pointing out why you needed to do things in that particular order or what advantages each step yielded, or what other options you could have had instead.
As a result of this, you just learn to play the game by rote.
You just always do things in the order you were shown and then, if you deviate from that routine, you can't understand why you don't have some option that you usually have or, alternatively, if something happens that you weren't prepared for, you have no idea what to do differently to deal with it.
And then you're back to having to use the internet to find out what you're doing wrong or what you can do differently.

Thing is, RTS's are another genre which are pretty complex and it's easy to make lazy tutorials which show the player how to do a specific thing but don't provide any insight into WHY they need to do it.

I think ED is a bit like that.
I wouldn't mind betting that the dev's started off intending to create tutorials but soon realised that anything more than basic piloting would end up causing the same issue; they'd be showing people what to do in a specific situation but didn't provide any insight into the factors that made that specific course of action the correct thing to do in that specific situation but also make players aware that they have other choices available which might be more appropriate in different circumstances.

Beyond that, maybe it's just me but, to me, ED just feels like one of those games where half the fun is being part of the community, asking questions and discussing what you've done and what the best way of doing a thing is.


Regarding the OP's query, such as it was, I suspect we all did exactly the same thing when we first started playing.
We took on a mission, hit the "plot course" button and found there was no way to reach the destination in our Sidewinders.
And then the more optimistic of us probably decided to try and supercruise the "extra" distance and ended up running out of fuel as a result.

To be fair, even the mission dialogue reminds you to ensure you have a ship capable of making the required journey and you also have access to the galaxy-map before accepting a mission so you can double-check the requirements.

What the OP needs to do is set aside any such mission (NOT discard them, just forget about them for an hour), take on some simple data-delivery missions within ~7Ly of his location, make a few credits and then upgrade his FSD so that he can complete the missions which require a longer jump range.

And, harsh as the lesson might be, that really IS a tutorial on the importance of reading the mission briefing, checking mission requirements before accepting them, navigation, economics and the process of upgrading a ship, all rolled into one.
 
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...

And now you've won.

And you really haven't got a clue why you won.
The tutorials haven't bothered pointing out why you needed to do things in that particular order or what advantages each step yielded, or what other options you could have had instead.
As a result of this, you just learn to play the game by rote.
You just always do things in the order you were shown and then, if you deviate from that routine, you can't understand why you don't have some option that you usually have or, alternatively, if something happens that you weren't prepared for, you have no idea what to do differently to deal with it.
And then you're back to having to use the internet to find out what you're doing wrong or what you can do differently.

Thing is, RTS's are another genre which are pretty complex and it's easy to make lazy tutorials which show the player how to do a specific thing but don't provide any insight into WHY they need to do it.

I think ED is a bit like that.

...

What the OP needs to do is set aside any such mission (NOT discard them, just forget about them for an hour), take on some simple data-delivery missions within ~7Ly of his location, make a few credits and then upgrade his FSD so that he can complete the missions which require a longer jump range.

And, harsh as the lesson might be, that really IS a tutorial on the importance of reading the mission briefing, checking mission requirements before accepting them, navigation, economics and the process of upgrading a ship, all rolled into one.


Very true! Your arguments really makes sense to me! And I agree with your conclusion on what OP should do (I would not restart also... but cope with it). That being said... how do the current tutorials fit into this? I shot the objects in the first tutorial, but that did not learn me to shoot; I landed five times in a row on the landing exercise, but still use the docking computer when I play for real after crashing my Vulture two times in a row on landing manually...
etc.

Therefore, I would like to see tutorials that learn you the ropes, without TELLING you what to do, but some feedback would be nice... For instance, if you encounter an enemy and you put pips on your shields, it could comment on that, or ask a question if you don't do this... make it a learning experience, without making yopu die all the time.
You really don't want to know how many times my ship exploded for overheating, just because it took so long for me to understand why my engines were running above 90 degrees... I am probably just too old to look everything up on the internet (I use it as a last resort) and that makes me a hard learner, and the game could easily help someone there.

For instance, I gave up on bounty hunting just a week ago, because everytime I went bounty hunting, I would be killed by the local federals... So I know I must have shot the wrong ships; what I don't know is how I did that.. accroding to myself I only shoot ships that are wanted, but I still get blown to pieces. And after five times, I decided this is not for me... and i gave up for the time begin (is just my third attempt on bounty hunting, there will be at least one more when I can afford an FDL).
So I would gladly follow a tutorial that would help me point out where I made the error shooting federals... etc. etc.

I really love to learn to get all out of this game, but some things (like pips, heat management, ship design, and a lot more) are just too complicated for me or better said, are to technicalk for me to master as i am an impatient dude... I really need some form of tutorial...
 
I do agree, and I bet everybody who's played ED has, at some point, wished there was a tutorial available discussing some facet of the game or another.

I used to think it might be nice if (similar to Bethesda games such as Skyrim, Fallout 4 etc), ED started off with an NPC character holding your hand.
The NPC could have "given" you a Sidewinder to fly, told you to accept a particular mission (the only one available at your starting point), instructed you to navigate to some other system, got you to follow them out of the station and jump to the new system with them, got into some combat and then follow them, in supercruise, to your destination where they'd be waiting to give you some instructions on landing.
And then, with that mission complete, the NPC would let you keep the Sidewinder and Cr1,000 and send you on your way.

That might've been nice but, given the way ED is coded, I'm not sure such a large "scripted event" could be made to work in the game.

Now I tend to think the most straightforward thing would just be for FDev to make a series of short video's discussing various things and bung 'em up on YouTube for people to watch.
Trouble is, most people are only going to need a couple of those video's, they're only going to watch them once and there ARE already unofficial sources of information about every topic you can think of so it's probably not the sort of thing that's top of their list of priorities.
 
...Now I tend to think the most straightforward thing would just be for FDev to make a series of short video's discussing various things and bung 'em up on YouTube for people to watch.
Trouble is, most people are only going to need a couple of those video's, they're only going to watch them once and there ARE already unofficial sources of information about every topic you can think of so it's probably not the sort of thing that's top of their list of priorities.

Umm...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7glm5rbPHKxnltQU1SLxdqQrENIXJGUr
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7glm5rbPHKx8MWl-oKkxLvEcAmumMVtw

:D
 
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Very true, and I missed all of them...
The trouble with ED is that there are loads of video's and pages. Now, after nine months of playing time, I know the difference between the good and the bad ones. However, when you are a newbee, you don't.... So after my steep learning curve in the beginning, added to my bad piloting skills (never play a simulation game, don't like them) and inability to land (crash all the time when manually landing) or fight (everything kills me)... well, you get the drift... My first video was "From sidewinder to anaconda in 24 hours" and that did not help me much since i am the worst bounty hunter ever, so never started any good.
Next hint I picked up was doing charity missions to pump up my rating; not very good too... Next hint was stacking missions, and 2.1 was just released.... Need I go on?

That is exactly why I am so keen on making tutorials or at least point out the difference between the good and the bad, even if you think as developer that there is not good and bad.... I refer to my list above and then they must admit there is a bad, so there is also good advice.

And as DonQuichot, I will keep on fighting for newbee rights, because I am convinced that there would be much much much more players if the learning curve for starters was not so steep
 
A couple of things that I think would help.

Better error diagnostics. In my experience as a (now retired) programmer, the code that gives a clear explanation of what the problem is, and what to do about it, typically gets left until last and then done quickly and badly. Why? It's not the most "fun" part (like the main processing paths) and is in fact time consuming and takes a lot of thought to get right. Nevertheless it's important. I was taught to put myself (mentally) in the user's seat. "Something went wrong" is both unhelpful and infuriating, and in addition causes a lot of unnecessary calls to the Help Desk, who then call the programmer, because they don't have a clue either.

I find that learning the basics is much more helpful than a lot of specific examples, though those are useful too. The reason is that if I understand the basic mechanics of flight (for example), how to go up, how to go down, how to speed up, how to slow down, and practice them until they are second nature, I can apply them to most situations requiring precision handling of the ship. Even docking! You wouldn't give a total beginner the keys to a car then send them out to learn by trial and error. Of course it's different in a game where you can't really hurt yourself or others, but the principle still applies imo.

About Youtube tutorials, I find them frustrating in some ways. The presenter presents you with a stream of information. I find that when I try it in game it isn't long before I'm saying "what did he say to do next?" The best way to learn (for me anyway) is to have a step explained, then I try it, repeat until I get it right, then move on to the next step and so on. In fact, exactly the way some games teach newcomers by leading them through a pre-programmed example where the various skills are explained, and if you fail hints are given, and you retry.
 
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