This is not fair.

[bitstorm]

And are you really saying that there are people, real life people, driving around the UK streets with the intent of ramming another car to kill the person inside?

Sure I knew you'd go down the route of killing in ED is the same as killing in real life.

No I'm not saying killing a player in ED is the same as killing people in real life.

There are however, in all countries, people who throw themselves in front of cars or cause intentional car crashes in order to gain via insurance claims.

[video=youtube;NtiOaCpHC1A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtiOaCpHC1A[/video]

Not that that makes much difference, I am not sure where you stand legally if you were speeding and a "fake" accident happened, vs if you were below the speed limit. How it would be viewed with regards the Police prosecuting.

Had it been though, I'd remove the bad limiter and slap any and all rammers with a perma ban, and if they are dumbenough to buy accounts to keep repeating then fdev gets richer and we get more things faster (unless they buy more coffee machines, wide screen TVs and hottubs!).

Bans are an option, I have no idea if Frontier take action if such folk are reported. I would say a warning seems appropriate, not keen on no tolerance stuff, everyone should be allowed to make mistakes.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Excuse me? There realy is no reason to get personal.
English is not my fist tongue. I just wanted to explain why there is no reason to support someone with a low health hull ship, boosting in a no fire zone. It should be his problem and not the victims.
But i totaly understand, that it is impossible for a machine to decide which is the victim and who is the attacker.

ha, dont get me wrong: I mean the OP should take responsibility for his actions, not you. He had it happen again, he knew how it worked, he deliberately decided to do exactly the same, and as a result had exactly the same outcome. And if he doesnt learn, he'll be having the same over and over again. As for 'it should be his problem', well it was his problem too: the small ship exploded. It also was the big ships problem, because he chose to make it so. Thats the good part: everyone who wants to have a problem can have one, and people not interested in having a problem can easily avoid one.

 

[Suhuy_Helgram]

A player dying again and again in a station is suspicious if he has a fair number of play time on his history... So those kind of griefer should be easy to spot.

Temporary stations ban (i.e. kill on sight, no scan) should fix that.
To prevent griefer just moving to the next stations, the ban could be:
- local at first (one station)
- regional (banned from all installations from the present local factions)
- global (banned from empire/federation/etc... instalations).

A ban would be a logical response from the point of view of a space station CEO (would you tolerate a random punk ruining your business?)

Of course, unlike *wanted* status, *banned* status doesn't disapear when your ship get destroyed. You have to wait for the reset timer.

Of course, Griefer can always play its grief-game in nullsec stations, but if you go there, assuming the consequences is up to you.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'll take a stab at guessing your meaning "Don't speed!", but then again that is part of the issue. We all got hit with a speed ban because someone was ramming? I'm glad RL doesn't work this way of "punish the masses", because if there is ever any s in your area, all the males are getting their parts cut off or the ladies fitted with government issue belts!

Thats exactly how real life works mate. Because some people cant drive well, we have speed limits. Because some people cant handle dope well, we have drug laws. Because some people cant handle guns we have gun laws. Etc etc etc etc.

Btw, we got hit with a speed ban because big-ship traders would not give a crap about anyone else and kept boosting through newbwinders. It used to be you could get killed completely beyond your fault or control. Now its 100% within your control. And its not even a hard-limit, you can speed as much as you want as long as you aint involved in accidents. Imagine how that would work out IRL (Quiet, germans...)

- - - Updated - - -

A player dying again and again in a station is suspicious if he has a fair number of play time on his history... So those kind of griefer should be easy to spot.

Temporary stations ban (i.e. kill on sight, no scan) should fix that.
To prevent griefer just moving to the next stations, the ban could be:
- local at first (one station)
- regional (banned from all installations from the present local factions)
- global (banned from empire/federation/etc... instalations).

A ban would be a logical response from the point of view of a space station CEO (would you tolerate a random punk ruining your business?)

Of course, unlike *wanted* status, *banned* status doesn't disapear when your ship get destroyed. You have to wait for the reset timer.

Of course, Griefer can always play its grief-game in nullsec stations, but if you go there, assuming the consequences is up to you.

Hehe, so if I snipe a newbwinder in LHS3447 through the slot with two huge cannons a few times he not only has to pay insurance, he'll also get banned for dying suspiously often?

"okay, make an exception for gunfire"

Sure, I'll just block the pad. Or have a clanmate hit me once before I suicide-crash into a T9. etc etc etc. Its not that easy, and 'why not just...' solutions are just ill-thought.

 

[Darkfyre99]

This is fine in theory but the issue here is determining fault.

The victim here would lose karma.

If anything in this scenario it would just make things worse for the victim.

You can come up with all sorts of ways to punish jerks that's easy, the difficult part is figuring out who the jerk is.

Quite frankly, if you're going aove 100 m/s, you're being a jerk. I say this as a Buckyball racer who routinely boosts entering and leaving a station. I'm putting people at risk for my fun, which IMO is being a jerk. If I accidentally collide with someone at that speed, I should be penalized. If they're going below 100 m/s, they are below they should not be penalized.

The thing is, any good karma system will decay over time if you don't be a jerk. It won't penalize you for the odd accident, moment of stupidity, or even desperately trying to reach a station before your air runs out, because it is literally a one off occurance, and will decay away if you continue to fly responsibly. Only if you make a HABIT of being a jerk would you be penalized.

 

[znôrt]

I'd remove the bad limiter and slap any and all rammers with a perma ban

there's no reliable known programmatic way to figure out the culprit in a collision. it is however trivial to check who was speeding. you suggest submitting this to the judgement of a human panel? it's being done for combat log and it isn't working at all so, as things stand, don't speed near the slot and fiesta. and don't give them ideas!

 

[Electric Kite]

Hi there guys.

Just thought i'd weigh in with the response from FDEV on this. While i may not absolutley agree with the response, i do respect it and i would also ask that everyone here would show the same respect to each other.

Its very dissheartening to see how personal some people are getting with one another over this. We can all agree to disagree where needed and should respect each other's opinions. I could respond to some of the replies here claiming i was being a jerk by speeding, or that im 'an bucky ball racer who is used to boosting" or that "i choose to ignore the speed limit and was intentionally putting other commanders in harms way" but whats the point if people have already made thier minds up?

That said - here is the response and i hope this brings closure to the thread - MOD please feel free to lock this thread after this.


25/03/2017 11:58 am
Hey there Mark,

Thank you for your email regarding the recent incident at Carlisle Station.

Having had a look into this for you I can see that you were fired at by the station after being hit by the other player, as you were breaking the speed limit around the station. While it's not very friendly gameplay, hitting another player isn't considered an exploit, and this sort of gameplay is why the speed limit around stations was originally introduced. As long as you adhere to the speed limit, if you are hit by another player you won't instantly become wanted or fired on by the authorities.

If you do have any further ideas on how we can improve mechanics around the stationS then please do feel free to post them on our forums, as we're always looking to adapt and improve Elite Dangerous.

In regards to logging off whilst in a situation like this, this is an action we do not condone (alike Combat Logging) however any reports made against another player are reviewed on a case by case basis. This ticket will be taken into account if any related reports are received though I cannot guarantee the outcome of such an investigation at this time

I hope this information helps you out, but if you do have any other questions please do let us know and we'll be more than happy to assist

Kindest regards,

CMDR Normandy
Treasurer of the Pilots Federation
Elite Dangerous Customer Support Wing

So there you go. I replied by linking this thread and said there are some pretty good suggestions here on how to deal with this issue that i hope they do take a look at.

Final word: I will say i didnt realise i was speeding, there were no commanders in harms away other than the pilot who was intending to kill himself on my hull (that i obviously did not see untill it was too late)

Result: i will be sure to watch speed in future BUT if i go over it, by accident, even by 1 meter a second...i would hope there is not a suicidewinder waiting to kill me for it - an unreasonable request? Seemingly so.

Flay safe. 07

 

[sewerratuk]

You might want to get a mod to lock the thread if you are done with it...

 

[Electric Kite]

You might want to get a mod to lock the thread if you are done with it...

I have asked them to in my above post. o7

 

[Red Anders]

I'd just wish FD would spend their time on stuff we need their help on, not something we already control fully but are too lazy to use. Just seems like a waste of dev time. Nothing against a karma-system in general, could even lead to fun RP of bad-guys which is currently very difficult. But just the bland 'FD MUST PROTECT MY SPEEDDOCKING OR I WILL COMBAT LOG!!!!!' is not really what I need.

Indeed. I can't even begin to grasp how warped people have to be to reach a point where they think cheating by combat logging is not only deemed to be an entirely reasonable alternative to simply following an in-game rule, but actually places them on the moral high ground somehow. It's a complete 180 degree mental flip.

Edit. Oh look, FDev have said exactly what I and others have been saying. Glad that's cleared up then.

 

[Suhuy_Helgram]

Hehe, so if I snipe a newbwinder in LHS3447 through the slot with two huge cannons a few times he not only has to pay insurance, he'll also get banned for dying suspiously often?

"okay, make an exception for gunfire"

Sure, I'll just block the pad. Or have a clanmate hit me once before I suicide-crash into a T9. etc etc etc. Its not that easy, and 'why not just...' solutions are just ill-thought.

First case is obvious murder (kill shot).

As for blocking the pad, isn't that already covered by the pad loitering penalty?

For the third case, 'why not just...' fly under 100 m/s with the T9?


By the way, I did witness an inventive murder in a station:

A big T9 was manoeuvering to dock next to me. A clipper came, positioned itself above the T9, and flattened it slowly on the station ground. The T9 shields came off first. Then, there was this grinding noise, then BOOM! (The clipper did escape). I must confess I did laught.

 

[Sonof Hibachi]

Oh My Goodness, this thread is still going! Red Anders summed it up (and closed the thread imho) several pages back (look for a rainbow farting hauler, his extremely sensible post is just above it).

And... moral of the story, DON'T SPEED!

 

[Electric Kite]

lock the thread please.

 

[Ian Skippy]

lock the thread please.

You must report your post for request, did it for you.

 

[Soon(TM)]

" the mechanic is working exactly as intended" o_0

I respectfully, strongly disagree.

- - - Updated - - -



Play in Open. If you dont- they win.

How do they win?

If nobody played in open then they would have nobody to grief... And pretty much be in solo themselves.

 

[SaliVader]

How do they win?

If nobody played in open then they would have nobody to grief... And pretty much be in solo themselves.

You know, some people enjoy the thrill of danger from pirates, or winging up with randoms. For example yesterday I went to the bounty hunting CG and winged up with other 3 random CMDRs at a RES, we had a lot of fun.

Gankers are an unfortunate consequence of the (basically non-existent) C&P system we have now, which is an issue FDev should prioritize in my opinion.

 

[stormyuk]

And... moral of the story, DON'T SPEED!

Unless you are smuggling and don't want to be scanned.............. (and can't do silent running as slackwinder just rams you out of the gate so you get scanned.....)

You know, some people enjoy the thrill of danger from pirates, or winging up with randoms. For example yesterday I went to the bounty hunting CG and winged up with other 3 random CMDRs at a RES, we had a lot of fun.

Gankers are an unfortunate consequence of the (basically non-existent) C&P system we have now, which is an issue FDev should prioritize in my opinion.

Edit: Agreed, people are saying its not a priority but with threads on this subject a DAILY occurrence I would disagree, FDev should prioritise this.

 

[Sonof Hibachi]

Unless you are smuggling and don't want to be scanned.............. (and can't do silent running as slackwinder just rams you out of the gate so you get scanned.....)

LOL, have rep!

 

[rootsrat]

Closed at OP's request.