This isn't the game for you? Really?

[Corwyn]

I think also there's a strange misapprehension by EVE players. Or at least the more recent migrants rather than those of us who've been here from the kickstarter or earlier.

Most of the old guard and middle guard (that's my invention, old guard being pre-kickstarter, middle guard are kickstarter and just after the new guard are pretty much people who joined the community at some point in the beta process, take it or leave it) don't hate EVE. We don't hate PvP. We're not EVE-haters. Most of us are ourselves EVE or Ex-EVE players. A lot of us aren't even against some aspects of EVE appearing in Elite. I think a lot of us see Elite as picking up where EVE left off when it went more down the 'game is about null and power blocs rather than the lone pilot and small gang warfare'. Which is why we're so resistant to allowing an equivalent to EVE Corps being added. What we're against is a certain bullying, HTFU attitude that a lot of EVE players over the years being transferred to ED and the ED community. We also realise that a lot of EVE players don't have or even support that attitude and want to play somewhere a little more relaxed where you're not worried about being backstabbed every other day by anyone outside your immediate circle.

I have nothing inherently against EVE: Online itself, there are many aspects of it I don't personally like, but mostly, it's the attitudes of many of the players, current and former. Otherwise, I agree inpart with this, and in part disagree. For the mostpart, I do agree, but one thing you've said here, about Elite picking up where EVE left off, I'm sorry, they are two different scenarios of a theme (ie: Sci-Fi space based), otherwise, they are completely different, with little to mirror one against the other. I also do not wish to see aspects of EVE in Elite, as they are completely different games, neither a reboot of the other, and therefore should not be combined.

Just because I don't like X idea that would support PvP or Y idea that's similar to an EVE mechanic, doesn't mean I hate PvP (I want PvP) or hate EVE (I played EVE for years).

I have nothing against PvP persay, I choose not to be involved in it as a major part of my gaming, it's not what I'm looking for in a game. I do partake in combat, PvP and PvE, but primarily, I'm interested in the trading and exploration presented in ED, and that's what I'm looking for. There's a time and place for all aspects of these in ED.

All that said, I still believe, and unfortunately, nothing said in this thread, has changed my view of suggesting, or even plain saying, to someone who is obviously unhappy with ED's direction and gameplay, to seek their enjoyment elsewhere, since they're not enjoying ED and not willing to change their view of what a space based game should (or more appropriately, could) be. It's in their best interests, as well as the ED community's, to avoid irreconcilable differences, in what is hopefully a positive way for all.

 

[JeffRyan]

I do agree, but one thing you've said here, about Elite picking up where EVE left off, I'm sorry, they are two different scenarios of a theme (ie: Sci-Fi space based), otherwise, they are completely different, with little to mirror one against the other. I also do not wish to see aspects of EVE in Elite, as they are completely different games, neither a reboot of the other, and therefore should not be combined.

All I mean by this Corwyn is that there was a time in EVE when the gameplay was about small groups rather than big power blocs. Small groups against the enviroment and against other players rather than fleets. It's called 'small gang warfare' and it still exists in EVE, mainly through declaring war in high sec space, but it tends to be about a PvP gang bullying a non-PvP group (often new) rather than five or six frigates roaming null or low-security space in search of a fight against another gang of five or six players. So Elite DOES actually cater much better to this form of gameplay small groups out hunting for one another. When the netcode and matching systems work anyway. What I mean has nothing to do with the mechanics of that, but the social aspect of that.

All that said, I still believe, and unfortunately, nothing said in this thread, has changed my view of suggesting, or even plain saying, to someone who is obviously unhappy with ED's direction and gameplay, to seek their enjoyment elsewhere, since they're not enjoying ED and not willing to change their view of what a space based game should (or more appropriately, could) be. It's in their best interests, as well as the ED community's, to avoid irreconcilable differences, in what is hopefully a positive way for all.

Irreconcilable differences.... you'd be surprised what differences can be reconciled given time, patience and more time. I was once very very firmly and one of the loudest voices in the pro-PvP mechanisms camp, feeling that FD had gone too far in hiding players from one another. I'm even the author of the infamous Elite: Babysitting thread. I've since seen the error of my ways.

I think when we have the bit in our teeth sometimes we just plough ahead, even me. But if we leave a subject alone for a while... maybe opinions can change. Sometimes even just playing the game changes opinions. A lot of pro-newtonian guys did back off after Alpha. Of course some didn't.