This one action sums up how fundamentally broken the game is at times

[ak785]

I'm literally in the middle of nowhere. Col Sector something or other. Light years from inhabited space, there are no stations nearby, nothing. I did this deliberately. I wanted to be alone in space without anyone around.

I found a pristine metallic ring around a planet at the edge of the system. I flew down to the ring and dropped out.

I fly down into the ring and look at my radar and a load of NPC's spawn. Are you kidding me?! A diamondback explorer then proceeds to dance around me with PLASMA ACCELERATORS and destroys my canopy and I can't make it back.

Why do NPC's spawn everywhere I go? Why do NPC's randomly appear on the route i'm jumping and say "I've come a long way for what you have in your haul?!" - I'm carrying LIMPETS!!! AND HOW do you know that i'm here. I didn't even know I was going here until 10 seconds ago when I decided i'd make this jump.

Seriously?!

 

[Siranui]

When you say 'lightyears from inhabited space', how far do you mean?

NPCs do not spawn in the deep black. However, they do spawn up to a good hundred LY out from the Bubble (150LY is it? Someone will correct me, I'm sure), because that region of space is still close enough to be exploited.

And did you have any cargo? NPC aggression is not triggered by Limpets.
If you had nothing else in your hold, bug report it, for FD to look into.

 

[ak785]

When you say 'lightyears from inhabited space', how far do you mean?

NPCs do not spawn in the deep black. However, they do spawn up to a good hundred LY out from the Bubble (150LY is it? Someone will correct me, I'm sure), because that region of space is still close enough to be exploited.

And did you have any cargo? NPC aggression is not triggered by Limpets.
If you had nothing else in your hold, bug report it, for FD to look into.

Its also the way they appear on your route when you're jumping somewhere. They appear instantly which feels wrong. Then they say oh i want what is in your cargo hold. Hmmm how do you know!? also how did you know I would be here at this precise moment?!

 

[Luponator]

Its also the way they appear on your route when you're jumping somewhere. They appear instantly which feels wrong. Then they say oh i want what is in your cargo hold. Hmmm how do you know!? also how did you know I would be here at this precise moment?!

You're pointing out the issues with the short-cut taking design decisions made. To hint at a living, breathing galaxy, instead of having one, the NPC behavior is tied directly to your actions, not so much to the environment. I say this in principle, please, don't get into a nitpicking argument now on how system states affect this, or how anarchy systems are different. Your interaction with NPCs is defined largely by the missions you take, the cargo you hold, the engineer commodities you carry, etc. All things defining the NPC instancing that's tied to your game, and your status at that point in time. Not to the environment. It's a single user game idea taken into a semi multi-player universe, and things like the OP described are the direct result.

It's actually a real pity.

 

[Jukelo]

It's a single user game idea taken into a semi multi-player universe, and things like the OP described are the direct result.

Heck, even in a single player game it's not acceptable.

 

[Jack Schitt]

You're pointing out the issues with the short-cut taking design decisions made. To hint at a living, breathing galaxy, instead of having one, the NPC behavior is tied directly to your actions, not so much to the environment. I say this in principle, please, don't get into a nitpicking argument now on how system states affect this, or how anarchy systems are different. Your interaction with NPCs is defined largely by the missions you take, the cargo you hold, the engineer commodities you carry, etc. All things defining the NPC instancing that's tied to your game, and your status at that point in time. Not to the environment. It's a single user game idea taken into a semi multi-player universe, and things like the OP described are the direct result.

It is annoying. An NPC spawn is basically triggered on nearly all instance changes, so jumping between systems, dropping from supercruise etc. all trigger a hidden dice roll that may or may not spawn other ships.

As the OP has discovered it's particularly annoying when mining, because no matter how remote a location you pick in a system that's bereft of supercruise targets, as soon as you drop into the ring there they are. With a fast enough ship you can boost away from them until they drop off the scanner then they won't respawn, at least until you change instances again.

There was a particularly annoying bug where you would lose mass lock when leaving a ring, try to engage supercruise, immediately drop out again because the mass lock range would incorrectly recalculate, and lo and behold a bunch of NPCs would spawn right along with you. I believe the mass lock bug may have been corrected in the latest beta builds, but whether anything has been done to address NPC spawning in general I'm not sure. I've had less time to play the current beta than most of the earlier ones and it's not something I've been particularly looking for.

As to how aggressive the NPCs are, Engineering commodities seem to be their thing. Carry so much as a single micro-weave cooling hose and they'll keep coming after you. Engineering commodities are like NPC-nip.

 

[Tataboj]

Well, you can take it as he was following you or something, but yeah, this is not a good behaviour and could be improved.

 

[noldunar]

While some might find this priciple of player oriented NPC interaction annoying or disturbing I think it is pretty good. I guarantees that it is never really empty in space and you always have the option of interacting with an NPC or not. In the mining example it is pretty easy to find your quiet corner. Just boost away like it was described and the NPCs will disappier.
There is a pretty good Elite remake called Oolite which has good graphics, a ton of community created add-ons, even campaigns. It is well liked and has an enthusiastic community. Oolite stands for object oriented Elite and it follows the exact opposite approach: As soon as you enter a system, the systems content is created once and interacts with itself, the player is practically the guest and can choose to get into the action or not. Sometimes of course the player is focus of the action as well. So in a system you might have a trade convoy attacked by pirates which are in turn attacked by police vipers. While this sounds great in theory, for me it had one fundamental flaw: You always felt as if you were just watching a movie and all the action only happened in the shipping lane between the hyperspace jump in point and the coriolis station. And once everything was over, meaning the pirates or traders are all destroyed, the convoy has reached the base etc. it was all over and the system was empty. No respawning. And when you traveled outside the shipping lane in a system you never encountered a single soul.

You could fix that with the add-ons. There is one add-on called deep space pirates which implemented random pirate spawns in deep space but without it it wouldn't happen. So while this is certainly more immersive for me it was a big turnoff. I never really got into Oolite because of that. If I am playing a game, I want to be the center of the action (even in a multi-player game). Not in a sense that I am the ruler of the universe (which we all know we are not in Elite, we are a single individual pilot who makes no difference) but in a technical sense. Meaning the game mechanics should focus around the player.

To each his own I think, but I wouldn't want to have it any other way.

 

[AutoMechancal]

Why do NPC's randomly appear on the route i'm jumping and say "I've come a long way for what you have in your haul?!" - I'm carrying LIMPETS!!!

This has been fixed since 2.1, unless you have something else other then limpets in your hold NPCs leave you alone.

 

[Fire Dragon]

I totally agree the NPC interdictions are by far the most annoying and non immersing part of the game (Apart from the broken instancing and disconnects of course) But the interdictions are much more common an occurrence. If you have a bounty, small or large and you are carrying any sort of cargo you can bet pretty much every other jump an NPC is either after you Tasty cargo or your gonna be his meal ticket. I agree 100% with the OP. I have to scan a ship with KWS to know if they have a bounty that is not for the system we are currently in, yet they are able to know mine the second I jump into a system or they have been following me for ages to get my cargo when I only just picked it up 10 seconds ago!

I know and agree that we need some of this behavior to make the game more interactive but surly there is a better way of implementing it that the current way. I would love FDEV to look into this, and make it a bit more believable.

 

[Shefenhow]

This has been fixed since 2.1, unless you have something else other then limpets in your hold NPCs leave you alone.

Well kind of. Limpets do not count as worth pirating you for if you get scanned now. I have however had the "I've come a long way for what's in your hold" message with an empty hold, so I would guess you could get it with just limpets in there too.

 

[SatansMittens]

I've had this happen and also thought the same thing. I'm in the middle of nowhere several jumps from an inhabited system and my chances of encountering another ship in a planetary ring should be zero. Should be more rare than being struck by lightning while being attacked by a shark in the middle of a desert. it happens more frequently than it should. I could understand if you were followed and you could somehow tell that you were followed. But its blatantly obvious that they just magically spawn when you get there.

 

[Ziljan]

At some point the game is going to shoot at you. I do agree that the game often picks odd times and ways to spawn encounters, with no real mechanism for long range stealth (eg hiding your low wake signature).

But that being said:. If you aren't ready to be shot at, you have no business leaving the dry dock.

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

As soon as you enter a system, the systems content is created once and interacts with itself, the player is practically the guest and can choose to get into the action or not. Sometimes of course the player is focus of the action as well. So in a system you might have a trade convoy attacked by pirates which are in turn attacked by police vipers. While this sounds great in theory, for me it had one fundamental flaw: You always felt as if you were just watching a movie

Definitely horses for courses, because that's what I prefer. I'm not the centre of attention, and the universe carries on as normal until I interact with it. I'ts one of the things I love about the 'X' games and 'Hardwar', that the NPCs would actually just go about their business no matter what you did.

and all the action only happened in the shipping lane between the hyperspace jump in point and the coriolis station. And once everything was over, meaning the pirates or traders are all destroyed, the convoy has reached the base etc. it was all over and the system was empty. No respawning. And when you traveled outside the shipping lane in a system you never encountered a single soul.

But that bit not so much... If you're going to have NPCs spawning and doing what they do, then it needs to continue. The NPC traders in 'X' and 'Hardwar' would trundle through routes, Pirates and Security vessels would prowl and interact and return to base, re-arm, etc. Gave a real immersive feeling rather than simply being a bubble that followed the player. Of course, it wasn't running multiplayer instances, so the persistent 'world' state was easy to maintain.

If I am playing a game, I want to be the center of the action (even in a multi-player game)

But what if you just want to do some quiet mining or exploring, do you still want the action to follow you even through your many light years away from any colonised systems for the very reason to not be the centre of attention at this point?

To each his own I think, but I wouldn't want to have it any other way.

Agreed, but with a but... We're trying to cater for an extremely wide range of player tastes, and at the moment, it only caters for one well. IMHO, the system that generates NPC spawns still needs some tweaking, from all accounts, it's a lot better than it was tho'!

 

[SatansMittens]

At some point the game is going to shoot at you. I do agree that the game often picks odd times and ways to spawn encounters, with no real mechanism for long range stealth (eg hiding your low wake signature).

But that being said:. If you aren't ready to be shot at, you have no business leaving the dry dock.

I definitely agree, as it should be. But the way in which this happens and the frequency of it ...... its just kinda.... i can't really think of a good word other than really cheesy and yeah a crappy programming shortcut.

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

At some point the game is going to shoot at you. I do agree that the game often picks odd times and ways to spawn encounters, with no real mechanism for long range stealth (eg hiding your low wake signature).

But that being said:. If you aren't ready to be shot at, you have no business leaving the dry dock.

'Just' making the NPCs have to follow the same rules as players WRT knowledge would be a start. If I have to scan to know cargo, or bounties, etc. then so should they. If their ship shouldn't be able to follow mine, then they shouldn't be able to spawn right behind me a FSD jaunt later (Supercruise or InterSystem jump).

 

[Codger]

At some point the game is going to shoot at you. I do agree that the game often picks odd times and ways to spawn encounters, with no real mechanism for long range stealth (eg hiding your low wake signature).

But that being said:. If you aren't ready to be shot at, you have no business leaving the dry dock.

100% agree. And there's not going to be any changes to the weird logic of when and where any time soon. I started a discussion of this in the Beta Feedback, and got a few replies, but it didn't gain much traction. And FD has been completely silent about it, so I guess nothing is in the works.

So we're stuck with the system as it is.

The good news is that it is very possible to learn how things work, and behave accordingly in the game.

For example, if you enter a ring to do some mining, you will always get an NPC or two that spawn near you. Usually they are pirates, but sometimes an authority ship of some kind will show up. IF you have no cargo other than limpets, they will scan you and go away (usually -- you do get the odd psycho killer ). Move 10-20km away and start mining. You won't be bothered again until you exit and re-enter the ring (or log off and on). Knowing this, it is possible to plan a mining run with very little danger. You still need good shields and an escape plan of course. But you need that all the time.

Given the game in it's current state, these illogical interactions are part of life in ED.

 

[Kazinar]

Everytime I'm hauling cargo I jump into a system and have a message from an NPC, the same annoying text "I've come a long way for what's in your hold", yeah, whatever.

Drop out of supercruise, 4 pips to shields, Kill warrant scanner ready and after a few minutes to NPC appears right in front of me (nice of him!). Scan the ship, let rip, retract hardpoints, carry on.

NEXT!

 

[Lobstris]

The game's scale, multiplayer and networking all work against it. I agree that it's cheesy having NPCs spawn based on your actions, but what are the alternatives? Persistent NPCs strike me as a bit problematic to pull off given the architecture, and the size/scope of the galaxy mean that we're probably never going to get 'STALKER-esque A-life' kind of interactions, or missions with the depth of those in 'dynamic-campaigned' flight sims, so, all they can really do is make the instant spawning a bit less obvious (e.g. don't spawn AI directly behind you), and more context aware (e.g. don't spawn AI in the middle of nowhere in rings, or only spawn-in after a long time delay).

They could do things with the spawning such as.... after 30 minutes of mining drop in a scout, who 'spotted' suspicious activity on scanner earlier (e.g. miner's low wake), then, if that scout isn't destroyed, start spawning incoming (but finite) waves of pirates after a suitable delay.

 

[Ziljan]

'Just' making the NPCs have to follow the same rules as players WRT knowledge would be a start. If I have to scan to know cargo, or bounties, etc. then so should they. If their ship shouldn't be able to follow mine, then they shouldn't be able to spawn right behind me a FSD jaunt later (Supercruise or InterSystem jump).

I agree that NPCs that can psychically track down players on the Galmap is out of bounds, particularity because we don't really have a similar mechanic for tracking down NPCs. Not without taking a mission and using our magic ADS to reveal the secret decoder ring location (a wholly simplistic and gameplay-free "mechanic").

That being said, they do at least have to scan us before they try to pirate us. However they don't usually actually try to pirate so much as destroy us. Though tbh, I've never tried to see if dropping a few bits of cargo would distract them. I really hope that the new hatch breaker mechanic applies to NPCs as well. Then maybe we'll get less complaints about death, and more about a simple loss of cargo.