Thoughts on 2.2 / My opinion on state of the game.

[Immashift]

Hello.

I was excited for 2.2, I really was. I was hoping it'd give the game some more depth and purpose. Maybe it has, I'm not sure.
I've been trying to work myself into a Python for the longest time, running in an ASPX, doing courier & smuggling missions months ago up until I took a long break because of getting bored.

I came back into ED last week to find my smuggling & cargo transport missions nonexistent or with their rewards nerfed into the floor. Before I was getting something like 700k + credits out of a few jumps and now those missions either don't appear at all or give me something like 30k, which I won't even pick up because it's not worth it.

So then I turned to combat missions, thinking I'd at least be able to entertain myself, but after stacking a few "hunt faction x in system y" missions and going to system y, I found all of two targets I could actually shoot at in an hour and a half. My first visit was to the local beacon because the system had no RES's. I found two ships with mission target markers on them and then nothing for half an hour tooling around the beacon. Sooooooooo I jumped back into SC, and looked for signal sources... jumped into a dozen or so, blew some wanted garbage up, and found no mission targets.

Alright, I thought, I have an interdictor, let's hunt for people the old fashioned way.... Wrong again. Interdicting is now a colossal pain in the    . Honestly, trying to interdict Johnny Harmless in his Sidewinder is now a billion times harder than it ever needed to be. Yes, it's still possible, but it's EXTREMELY irritating to be absolutely on his    , and have his fight bar keep going up no matter how smoothly I'm tethered to him. It's not worth the hassle of getting 1/5 successful attempts.


So I abandoned the kill missions because they were pointlessly wasting my time. I grudgingly turned to passenger missions. The first obstacle I came up against was actually finding a station that had cabins for me to buy... *oh but if you go to high tech populated worlds they'll be there* - trust me. I went to some of my favorite systems with something like ~20b population with a rich high tech economy and nothing. Without a market system that actually shows you locations of items at a glance (like, say, perhaps... EVE Online's market), it's an annoying game of guesswork to figure out where things can be bought and it doesn't feel intuitive at all.

I finally did find some cabins, and hightailed it back to my good reputation systems. I took a look at the passenger board and, holy buggers batman... 56 mill? Sign me up! Oh wait... he wants to go halfway across the galaxy... huh... let's see, 22k LY divided by my jump range.... Yeah... 360 odd jumps ONE WAY. I think not. *pass*

I did end up finding a few I liked with rewards of about 5 mill for a dozen or so jumps between points. I set off.
I got to the first point fine, even blew up some stupid cobra that wanted my living cargo, and I got the okay to go to the next beacon.
So I make my dozen jumps, get into system, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand no beacon. Huh. Okay.
Let's see what the forums have to say about this *google's problem* - Huh. Go around planets and stuff hunting for beacon, should show up.
I buzz around the system for an hour, find nothing. Dock, log out and in, try everything, still no beacon.
Finally I abandon the mission and kick the guy out the airlock to make my way home.

I accept another few passenger missions, this time the multi-stop sightseeing mission goes fine and I get my 3 million credit reward. Great.
I bring the second dude to his desired station, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand can't hand in the mission because no claim button.
After much fiddling around I realize I need a cargohold to accept mission reward cargo if I even want to be able to turn the mission in.
Seriously now,     is the point of beta if you don't catch stuff like this and maybe tell the player in a message or something that they might want to have a cargohold.
OR, maybe perhaps actually let us refuse the cargo reward, because honestly I don't care if I get 3 lampshades worth 2k credits each that take up a ton a piece. Venting them out the airlock is actually easier than selling them
because the commodities UI isn't exactly user-friendly, what, with having to select the thing you wanna sell BY NAME before you can actually sell it.

Finally I got my reward and exited to leave the station.
Whereupon I was told for about .25 of a second that I was in violation of station rule somethingorother and my ASP instantly exploded just outside the mailslot. Que pasa?
I didn't bump anyone, didn't touch the station, wasn't wanted, wasn't carrying illegal cargo, wasn't carrying wanted passengers. I had a 100% empty ship, hit Launch, and the station
simply said YOU SHALL NOT PASS.

Fine. 700 something K loss. NBD.
Contacted Geico for my replacement ASP, picked up another few missions for passengers, got a few done, and then once again encountered the no beacon thing and ended up abandoning them all.
Also it seems the planetary base assaults are gone too because I haven't seen one of those in a week.

So I finally ditched the cabins for some hatch breakers and collectors and decided to pick up one of my favorite things to do: pirate unsuspecting clean folk in anarchy systems.
Then after getting there, I realized that the irritation of Johnny Sidewinder evading my interdictions like he's Han Solo also applies to Terry Type-6 & friends. One of my favorite activities has all but been
completely destroyed by the simple fact that stopping people in empty space is NOT WORTH either 4/5 attempts being evaded or having that one successful attempt take forever and a day because the stupid interdiction
bar keeps ping ponging between me and the NPC. No I'm not bad at it, it's just been turned into a terrible mechanic.

I finally thought "alright, fine, if I can't have fun today doing anything I like doing already, let's see if I can try the new fighters"............ So I went looking for a Keelback so I could fit fighters, because
for some reason (yesssssssssssss I know balanceeeeeeeeeee) not every ship can fit fighers. So I spent half an hour looking for a keelback to no avail, because once again that no proper market screen
reared its ugly head. Near the end I actually fired up EVE Online because I was getting so bored and started doing things there while flying between stations in ED looking for a lone Keelback.

I decided a while later to close ED before I got too annoyed to play it again and decided to take a break for at least as long as till the next semi-major update.

At the very least I wanna see passenger missions' bugs fixed. If I had my way interdictions would go back to the way they were before, and the game would get a proper, searchable, user-friendly market.

I'm also waiting with extremely low hopes for atmospheric landings. At the rate Horizons is going it'll be into 2021 before that ever gets implemented.

So there's my $.02, my experiences and opinions with the current state of the game. I love this game, I really do. But it's shallow. You get money to get more money to get ships to get more ships, and there's
never really anything to put it all towards. I can mine, but for what? I can't build much of anything myself, and there's no player economy for me to manhandle, so what's the point beyond getting rich and having a shiny ship?
I'll be back to the game.............. eventually. Maybe when I see patch notes that contain things about fixing missions and more actual features.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

There's a lot here, most is old ground covered so many times in so many places it's not worth repeating so I'll try and condense it. Its a little rambling and doesn't really get to key points but I've taken out of it what I can. I hope I captured most of the elements and put a reasonable response in. I don't speak for the Devs but I do read tons of comments and videos etc

1) Mission rewards are bugged, they nerfed sothis etc and it seems to have affected everything. Expect a patch to fix the normal missions but not the marginally exploit based poop hauling.
2) Interdiction, yeah it's changed, unsure on this. Some have reported its fine after re-adjusting others haven't. I can confirm it's no longer stacked in the aggressors favour as it was pre-2.2 so it may just be equal now it may be the other way...
3) Passenger beacons, yep it's an issue, there are a few genuinely missing but a good 99%+ are there.
4) Passenger wanted status - Big headline known bug, yes it's being fixed expect patch.
5) Yep claim button material rewards is an issue, known bug being worked on expect patch. I expect if you don't have space it'll simply not give you the commodities reward.
6) You shall not pass thingy - Were you speeding? I'm betting my bottom dollar you clipped a ship and destroyed it giving you a bounty. This is why I always run shadowplay so I can see back what happened and why.

Interdictions:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;ybxXIRbe9Xs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybxXIRbe9Xs[/video]

Post 2.2 update. 100 second battle! Very evenly matched vs Elite NPC with similar manoeuvrability, finally won after a lot of effort. I think it works just fine but that's from a defenders perspective against an evenly matched target both in terms of skill (Elite) and ship.

Eddb.io is perfect for finding ships and commodities and outfitting. Should a feature be in game? = Maybe? On the one hand it's useful, on the other the lack of in game support is breeding player made stuff that's arguably better than FDev could have made as players have more time and people to optimise it. Also it rewards people who spend the time to search for it and allows those that enjoy the challenge not to worry.
For the record I generally go to Lembava/Diaguandri. Both near each other, have a good 95% of items for sale at a 15% discount, notable missing items are federal/imperial ships.

Anyway, the game isn't perfect. The update was huge so expect bugs with new/changed features. Come back in 2 weeks.

"Maybe when I see patch notes that contain things about fixing missions and more actual features.

I won't lie, the last few comments really annoy me with it's sarcastic tone on atmospheric landings etc. How many bugs have you reported? 0 based on the fact your account is brand new here. How can you fix a bug you don't know is there until you go live?

 

[Kubicide]

It's actually good to see complaints over interdiction now being challenging for the attacker. It's been too easy in the past and, frankly speaking, it should be harder for the attacker since they typically always have the upper hand.

Seems like balance may have finally been struck.

 

[Devari]

I won't lie, the last few comments really annoy me with it's sarcastic tone on atmospheric landings etc. How many bugs have you reported? 0 based on the fact your account is brand new here. How can you fix a bug you don't know is there until you go live?

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous.

First, FD insists on running a brief "paid beta" but doesn't adequately respond to the various issues that are identified. So right away they are trying to squeeze money out of the playerbase do so something that FD should be doing themselves, with professional beta testing.

Second, I've routinely reported bugs throughout Engineers and its various patches, and I found that many of them were actually reported in beta as well. Nothing was done with many of those bugs for over 3 months. I've also started forum threads hoping to get some communication from FD, and again nothing was done. When they do finally fix something it is literally months later even for what should be straightforward issues that were working fine before the update. They have only gotten around to fixing the flight landing override bug when 2.2 launched, over 3 months since it was first reported in 2.1 beta, and that is a simple textfile.

Third, the patch notes and communication from FD is quite simply terrible. New "features" often aren't documented at all in patch notes and when they obviously aren't working properly we still have to guess what FD's actual idea was on exactly how they are supposed to work. When we do get information it is often inaccurate and asking for clarification on these forums gets zero response from FD.

Claiming that the OP is somehow not justified in bringing up the massive game balance issues and bugs we've gotten with 2.2 because he wasn't telling FD how broken their expansion was through ineffective participation in a paid beta moneygrab is just ridiculous.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous.

First, FD insists on running a brief "paid beta" but doesn't adequately respond to the various issues that are identified. So right away they are trying to squeeze money out of the playerbase do so something that FD should be doing themselves, with professional beta testing.

Second, I've routinely reported bugs throughout Engineers and its various patches, and I found that many of them were actually reported in beta as well. Nothing was done with many of those bugs for over 3 months. I've also started forum threads hoping to get some communication from FD, and again nothing was done. When they do finally fix something it is literally months later even for what should be straightforward issues that were working fine before the update. They have only gotten around to fixing the flight landing override bug when 2.2 launched, over 3 months since it was first reported in 2.1 beta, and that is a simple textfile.

Third, the patch notes and communication from FD is quite simply terrible. New "features" often aren't documented at all in patch notes and when they obviously aren't working properly we still have to guess what FD's actual idea was on exactly how they are supposed to work. When we do get information it is often inaccurate and asking for clarification on these forums gets zero response from FD.

Claiming that the OP is somehow not justified in bringing up the massive game balance issues and bugs we've gotten with 2.2 because he wasn't telling FD how broken their expansion was through ineffective participation in a paid beta moneygrab is just ridiculous.

Longest beta ever (discounting 1.0) = brief. Sure thing bud

Yup we've been round this discussion before, nothing changing. I have nothing to add from when we last discussed this.

Sure my response to the OP was a bit sarcastic but then again so was his. A good number of the bugs he has encountered here franky were not seen in beta and only when meshed with the live game did they appear, I'm talking about here now not the beta. Again beating a dead horse we were discussing on another thread, still nothing to add to my previous on this.

 

[Devari]

Longest beta ever (discounting 1.0) = brief. Sure thing bud

It was around 3-4 weeks, that is not substantially longer than the other betas which were very similar in duration. It's abundantly clear that these beta periods are nowhere near long enough, especially given that we've had the most game-breaking bugs yet with 2.2 from insta-corruption of CMDR saves when using module storage. Perhaps FD thought they could take it easy on their internal "alpha" testing for 2.2 because they were counting on the playerbase buying into the "paid beta" nonsense?

Yup we've been round this discussion before, nothing changing. I have nothing to add from when we last discussed this.

Sure my response to the OP was a bit sarcastic but then again so was his. A good number of the bugs he has encountered here franky were not seen in beta and only when meshed with the live game did they appear, I'm talking about here now not the beta. Again beating a dead horse we were discussing on another thread, still nothing to add to my previous on this.

The issue here is that the forums are often very hostile and dismissive of valid gameplay complaints from new or returning players, for no particular reason other than to blindly defend FD. Players are often bringing up valid issues that are making the game unplayable in many cases and the diehard Elite "fans" refuse to acknowledge any fault with the game.

Elite isn't at a point where they can deliver sub-par buggy expansions without being held accountable for it. FD really disappointed and upset a lot of the playerbase with 2.1 and many players were expecting more from them with 2.2. It's clear that they haven't learned anything about game balance or adequately testing new features from 2.1 and blindly defending them for it certainly doesn't make the game any better.

 

[Tel Prydain]

Gosh, I'm sure excited to read all this in a thread all of it's own instead of one of the ten-or-so threads already talking about this. Lord knows we wouldn't you to wither away without the spotlight firmly on you.
I'm sure Devari is happy for the company.

 

[Devari]

Gosh, I'm sure excited to read all this in a thread all of it's own instead of one of the ten-or-so threads already talking about this.

Given that FD will only usually responds to excessive forum whining, apparently the only way to get them to notice legitimate issues is to ensure they are mentioned repeatedly on the forums otherwise they're drowned out in all the other forum nonsense.

Lord knows we wouldn't you to wither away without the spotlight firmly on you.
I'm sure Devari is happy for the company.

I'm always amazed at how quickly many of the posters on these forums devolve into vague, petty personal attacks instead of addressing the relevant issues.

I suppose it's always easier for certain people to attack the messenger on sight rather than actually deal with a message you don't want to hear.

 

[Tel Prydain]

The message is fine.
But there are literally four other threads on the first two pages with the same message. No one's specific take on the topic requires a whole new thread - it just makes the place a pain to navigate.
And, yes, noise does seem to attract the dev's attention* - but one thread with a hundred pages is just as effective as a hundred threads with one page.


* I would suggest that much of the time, like for example, now... the issues are already well-known and being worked on. FD have already confirmed that the low mission payouts are a bug, so when they're fixed it'll be normal maintenance, not a response to the dozen complaint thread here.

 

[Chris Simon]

It was around 3-4 weeks, that is not substantially longer than the other betas which were very similar in duration. It's abundantly clear that these beta periods are nowhere near long enough, especially given that we've had the most game-breaking bugs yet with 2.2 from insta-corruption of CMDR saves when using module storage. Perhaps FD thought they could take it easy on their internal "alpha" testing for 2.2 because they were counting on the playerbase buying into the "paid beta" nonsense?



The issue here is that the forums are often very hostile and dismissive of valid gameplay complaints from new or returning players, for no particular reason other than to blindly defend FD. Players are often bringing up valid issues that are making the game unplayable in many cases and the diehard Elite "fans" refuse to acknowledge any fault with the game.

Elite isn't at a point where they can deliver sub-par buggy expansions without being held accountable for it. FD really disappointed and upset a lot of the playerbase with 2.1 and many players were expecting more from them with 2.2. It's clear that they haven't learned anything about game balance or adequately testing new features from 2.1 and blindly defending them for it certainly doesn't make the game any better.

Beta durations:
1.3 Powerplay - 1 week
1.4 CQC - 2 weeks + 2 weeks of public stress tests and Gamma
2.0 Horizons - 2 weeks (1 week of 1.5 Ships beta prior to this)
2.1 Engineers - 3 weeks
2.2 Guardians - Over 5 weeks = "not substantial longer"

On your second point, and I can really only speak for myself, but I know many people feel the same:
Trouble with this is the difference between how we and the newcomers deal with bad design, bugs and other generally annoying stuff. Most of the older players, when they've encountered a bug, bad gameplay design or other hiccup in their enjoyment simply go and report the bug, go to suggestions or participate in betas and try to change bad designs, etc...
When newcomer encounters a bug, bad design, or most importantly (and most frequently) simply a part of the gameplay they don't understand, they don't do either of that. They come to the general forums and write an (often offensive) incoherent rant about their woes and how Frontier screwed up. Not only that is counter-productive from bug-reporting point of view (because devs will ignore it and mods will eventually lock it), but when someone actually tries to come up with the solution or try to help, they are called patronizing and fanboys by the newbies (they are the ones dismissive) and carebears by people like you (they are the ones hostile).
That is my personal experience with Dangerous Discussion.
To be honest, I don't think general discussion belongs on the official forums at all.

 

[encrypted]

All valid points.

The most thing I am surprised about is that FD doesn't release patches like crazy to fix all these bugs. Over a week since release and ... 0.

Oh, well ... actually I am not surprised.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hilariously, when Civilization VI dropped, I feared I wouldn't find time to play E: D. Yet its actually proven to be the other way around. Since 2.2 went live, I have only played 2 sessions of Civ6.....and that is in spite of LOVING both games.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

All valid points.

The most thing I am surprised about is that FD doesn't release patches like crazy to fix all these bugs. Over a week since release and ... 0.

Oh, well ... actually I am not surprised.

Firaxis. Massive studio that has sold millions of copies of Civ6 since it was released a fortnight ago......full of bugs. Has there been any patches since release? Nope.

Elite Dangerous released 2.2 on a Tuesday and had 2.2.01 out just 2 days later. If you want to criticise, then go ahead, but please use facts, not hyperbole.

 

[Chris Simon]

All valid points.

The most thing I am surprised about is that FD doesn't release patches like crazy to fix all these bugs. Over a week since release and ... 0.

Oh, well ... actually I am not surprised.

I would advise you to go and study the list of known bugs and issues they are currently working on before calling them out.

 

[Ian Phillips]

All valid points.

The most thing I am surprised about is that FD doesn't release patches like crazy to fix all these bugs. Over a week since release and ... 0.

Oh, well ... actually I am not surprised.

Actually - just to dampen your surprise, FD used to do weekly patches to fix issues. We the forum members complained long and loudly and FD listened to us.

So now we have infrequent large patches instead of weekly (or sometimes 2 or 3 a week) small patches.

So now people who were not around in the early days of frequent patches come and complain "frequently" about there NOT being weekly patches.

Go figure....

Edit:
I see that you joined the forums in jan 2015 - so you would have known this....
Go figure....

 

[Chris Simon]

Actually - just to dampen your surprise, FD used to do weekly patches to fix issues. We the forum members complained long and loudly and FD listened to us.

So now we have infrequent large patches instead of weekly (or sometimes 2 or 3 a week) small patches.

So now people who were not around in the early days of frequent patches come and complain "frequently" about there NOT being weekly patches.

Go figure....

Edit:
I see that you joined the forums in jan 2015 - so you would have known this....
Go figure....

Amen.

Actually this is not the only case players are to blame for changes that are now frequently complained about, often by the very same players...
FD really can't win this fight. Best thing they can do is to follow their agenda and don't take us too seriously, which is, I hope, exactly the thing they are doing.

 

[Adhock]

The issue here is that the forums are often very hostile and dismissive of valid gameplay complaints from new or returning players, for no particular reason other than to blindly defend FD. Players are often bringing up valid issues that are making the game unplayable in many cases and the diehard Elite "fans" refuse to acknowledge any fault with the game.

Trouble with this is the difference between how we and the newcomers deal with bad design, bugs and other generally annoying stuff. Most of the older players, when they've encountered a bug, bad gameplay design or other hiccup in their enjoyment simply go and report the bug, go to suggestions or participate in betas and try to change bad designs, etc...
When newcomer encounters a bug, bad design, or most importantly (and most frequently) simply a part of the gameplay they don't understand, they don't do either of that. They come to the general forums and write an (often offensive) incoherent rant about their woes and how Frontier screwed up. Not only that is counter-productive from bug-reporting point of view (because devs will ignore it and mods will eventually lock it), but when someone actually tries to come up with the solution or try to help, they are called patronizing and fanboys by the newbies (they are the ones dismissive) and carebears by people like you (they are the ones hostile).

I have to double up on this.

There are issues with the game. No doubt. But it's one of those things I cannot control and I personally have to struggle with learning not to get upset about things that aren't in my control. I don't always succeed and that's usually when I write a hate filled rant about something. It's a coping mechanism and usually when I'm done, I feel better and (mostly) accept the hate that comes my way for it.

But for the most part I take a breath, look for anything that can help fix it, and if I see nothing, realize it's something I have no control over or try to find the instrument I wasn't watching that is meant to be the counter against it. Report it best I can and/or make other people aware of the issue and move on.

I've seen dozens of topics about people complaining about just about everything. Majority of those are people who are coming onto the forums for the first time and they write the above hate filled speech about how ED is a waste of time and money.

When people come on to ether correct what is usually pilot error or notify them it's a known issue and being looked into, these helpful individuals get called names by both the newcomers and regulars alike who claim the "defenders" are too blind to see the problem and that we need to be more critical of the game.

I may be part of the defender camp but I'm not nearly as blind as I'm accused of being. There are problems with the game. I accept these, change what I can, report what I can't, and move on.

I learn.

I adapt.

I survive.

And I become Elite.

One year later I can count myself as one of the proud regulars who started in a Sidewinder, bright eye'd and bushytailed who understood nothing to a battlescarred veteran who has love and lost Anacondas and is still learning how to survive from take off to touchdown.

I have the stubborn will of someone who can't quit even though I've wanted to. I'm still here. I've learned. Tenacity is something this game can't give you. It's something you need for the game. You ether have it, develop it, or you just crumble when the game breaks you.

It broke the OP it seems.

 

[Devari]

Beta durations:
1.3 Powerplay - 1 week
1.4 CQC - 2 weeks + 2 weeks of public stress tests and Gamma
2.0 Horizons - 2 weeks (1 week of 1.5 Ships beta prior to this)
2.1 Engineers - 3 weeks
2.2 Guardians - Over 5 weeks = "not substantial longer"

With the exception of Powerplay, the other expansions were averaging 3.5-4 week total time spent in beta. The extra week of beta in 2.2 to bring it to 5 weeks it not what I would call "substantial" given the state of the expansion upon launch and the number of problems we've seen in 2.2 so far.

If you look at the time "balancing" and fixing all the bugs in 2.1, that involved around 9 weeks to go from 2.1 launch to 2.1.05 in addition to the 3 weeks of beta. That's 12 weeks to properly test and balance 2.1 in total and many players (myself included) don't consider 2.1.05 particularly "balanced" as it was mostly a knee-jerk reaction where FD just returned to lobotomized NPCs and gave out easy mods to everyone instead of really fixing the mess we had. That's why I don't consider going from 4 weeks to 5 weeks of "beta" testing for 2.2 substantial given that is still clearly inadequate to do a job that takes on average of 3 months in total.

There's also no excuse for the massive income nerfs with 2.2 that FD is claiming are "unintended" when the intention is obviously to force players to "beta test" all the passenger missions for them. If it was truly a simple "mistake" they could have easily fixed the incomes with the 2.2.1, it's just a matter of increasing the mission reward numbers. It's not like they're fixing a difficult "bug" or gameplay issue here, they just need to add another zero to the credit rewards that somehow "disappeared" with 2.2 if you take what FD claims at face value (I clearly don't).

On your second point, and I can really only speak for myself, but I know many people feel the same:
Trouble with this is the difference between how we and the newcomers deal with bad design, bugs and other generally annoying stuff. Most of the older players, when they've encountered a bug, bad gameplay design or other hiccup in their enjoyment simply go and report the bug, go to suggestions or participate in betas and try to change bad designs, etc...
When newcomer encounters a bug, bad design, or most importantly (and most frequently) simply a part of the gameplay they don't understand, they don't do either of that. They come to the general forums and write an (often offensive) incoherent rant about their woes and how Frontier screwed up. Not only that is counter-productive from bug-reporting point of view (because devs will ignore it and mods will eventually lock it), but when someone actually tries to come up with the solution or try to help, they are called patronizing and fanboys by the newbies (they are the ones dismissive) and carebears by people like you (they are the ones hostile).
That is my personal experience with Dangerous Discussion.
To be honest, I don't think general discussion belongs on the official forums at all.

I think the other major issue here is that Elite has always had a very steep learning curve and all of the new features make this even more difficult. As a result many newer players will encounter a "bug" that is really working as intended, but really they would have no idea that is how it is supposed to work.

Take a look at the issues with having a wanted passenger on board resulting in immediate ship destruction if scanned while leaving the station. While an experienced player would probably realize that by taking on a wanted passenger they could get a bounty, this wasn't described in any obvious way in the mission descriptions. In fact even if you're smuggling highly illegal goods you only get a fine so many players might have assumed that it would be similar situation with passengers. None of this would be clear at all to a new player who is still learning the game and they would be even more confused. Adding to this is inconsistent communication from FD on the issue, with some players being told by support that it was a "bug" that they're looking into and other players being told it was working as intended for taking on a wanted passenger.

I've been playing the game since launch and I am still encountering new "features" that are not documented anywhere and are not consistent at all. For example I started powerplay a few months back and couldn't figure out why other powerplay ships could attack me without getting a bounty as this wasn't explained at all. It's even worse at RES sites where you are hunted down immediately by any other power regardless of whether your own power is even involved in any conflict with them. My power (Li Yong-Rui) is probably the least likely to actually get into conflict directly from PP activities and yet I'm still swarmed by every other faction as soon as I enter a Nav beacon or RES making RES hunting basically unplayable for me outside of my own faction's systems.

I can find a way to deal with most of these issues, but for a new or returning player it would be doubly frustrating to encounter these issues in game and then to come to the forums and have your concerns trivialized or dismissed by other posters who insist on defending Elite like a rabid dog instead of acknowledging the game mechanics and balance issues that clearly need improvement.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Tried the tutorials recently. Unrecognisable from before is the phrase i'd use. Yes it's not been perfect, some releases were downright terrible but your recollection is very warped and exaggerated for you to try and prove your point.

Things are improving is my point. This release had about 2 hours server downtime, lowest ever in the games history etc. I could go on but have run out of time (sadly have to work tomorrow).

Releasing software without bugs. Yeah good one. Maybe google Assassins Creed Unity release to see how a real AAA developer with worldwide offices and hundreds of staff do it right. /sarcasm (yeah ok also loosing will to care here a bit).

then to come to the forums and have your concerns trivialized or dismissed by other posters who insist on defending Elite like a rabid dog instead of acknowledging the game mechanics and balance issues that clearly need improvement.

Nah, I'm just realistic and don't want this place to become a cesspit of negativity that to take a relevant example: NMS has become. Criticism is good and healthy but there's no need to rant and rave and whine and rub things in (speaking generally here not about your comments). Elite is in development, it won't be perfect, there will be bugs. I acknowledge that depending on your activity in game Elite can be smooth as a rock with 0 issues to totally unplayable and a buggy mess.

 

[Chris Simon]

I think the other major issue here is that Elite has always had a very steep learning curve and all of the new features make this even more difficult. As a result many newer players will encounter a "bug" that is really working as intended, but really they would have no idea that is how it is supposed to work.

Take a look at the issues with having a wanted passenger on board resulting in immediate ship destruction if scanned while leaving the station. While an experienced player would probably realize that by taking on a wanted passenger they could get a bounty, this wasn't described in any obvious way in the mission descriptions. In fact even if you're smuggling highly illegal goods you only get a fine so many players might have assumed that it would be similar situation with passengers. None of this would be clear at all to a new player who is still learning the game and they would be even more confused. Adding to this is inconsistent communication from FD on the issue, with some players being told by support that it was a "bug" that they're looking into and other players being told it was working as intended for taking on a wanted passenger.

I've been playing the game since launch and I am still encountering new "features" that are not documented anywhere and are not consistent at all. For example I started powerplay a few months back and couldn't figure out why other powerplay ships could attack me without getting a bounty as this wasn't explained at all. It's even worse at RES sites where you are hunted down immediately by any other power regardless of whether your own power is even involved in any conflict with them. My power (Li Yong-Rui) is probably the least likely to actually get into conflict directly from PP activities and yet I'm still swarmed by every other faction as soon as I enter a Nav beacon or RES making RES hunting basically unplayable for me outside of my own faction's systems.

I can find a way to deal with most of these issues, but for a new or returning player it would be doubly frustrating to encounter these issues in game and then to come to the forums and have your concerns trivialized or dismissed by other posters who insist on defending Elite like a rabid dog instead of acknowledging the game mechanics and balance issues that clearly need improvement.

My point was - I mainly operate in Newcomers sub-forums, because there I find people who actually want help and are willing to learn and listen. And I LOVE helping them and teaching them stuff, both there and in game.
People in Dangerous Discussion don't want to learn (newbies) or help (veterans) or discuss ideas (everybody combined) - they just want to complain. It's unproductive, frustrating and leads to toxicity from all contributing parties.

That's why my usual response, there, is "Encountered a bug? Go report it. Don't understand a mechanic? Let us help you. Have a great idea? Go post in in Suggestions."
Surely enough, most of the time I am called names and dismissed as unhelpful fanboy. But it isn't a fault of the game, nor of Frontier.

(btw. I generalized this too much. I profoundly apologize to all the great citizens of Dangerous Discussion who AREN'T like that. There are many. But in only takes one rotten apple... etc...)

 

[Adhock]

I think the other major issue here is that Elite has always had a very steep learning curve and all of the new features make this even more difficult. As a result many newer players will encounter a "bug" that is really working as intended, but really they would have no idea that is how it is supposed to work.

...but for a new or returning player it would be doubly frustrating to encounter these issues in game and then to come to the forums and have your concerns trivialized or dismissed by other posters who insist on defending Elite like a rabid dog instead of acknowledging the game mechanics and balance issues that clearly need improvement.

That's what we're here for but when you include the language used by these newer people that's very hostile such as I've highlighted above, you're not going to get much help. Instead you're going to      off the people who've tried to show up to help and they may as well be justified in telling you off.

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you." You're doing just that with your wording. We're very prone to kneejerk reactions.

I tried to bring up an issue regarding the fact I lost a ship because the game locked up trying to load the menu so I could plot a route to my next destination with a passanger mission. As I did an NPC pirate jumped in a blew me up. I could only watch helplessly as my ship melted with me unable to do anything about it because my controls were locked up.

People couldn't get past the first sentence of me saying I was flying without rebuy which was a pilot error and I accepted that. I explictly said in the same post "Not the end of the world. Oh well. Back to the sidewinder". They kept having a kneejerk reaction to that first sentence when I kept making it clear that the loss of the anaconda didn't bother me. What bothered me was the fact the game was locking up and causing me to be unable to defend myself. Same thing would have happened reguardless if I was flying an Anaconda without Rebuy or a Cobra I could rebuy dozens of times over. The problem I wanted to bring up was the game being locked up.

And everyone but a few people actually took the time to read the post instead having a kneejerk reaction telling me I shouldn't have been flying without rebuy. They ignored the point of the post for something that was trivial and not part of the problem I wanted to bring up.

It was a very depressing social experiment.

Perhaps if new players used language more akin to asking how to deal with issue A, B, and C, we wouldn't feel antagonized.

But they do.

So we bite them.

And nothing gets solved.

You insult us with the same language and wonder why we bite your head off.

See the pattern yet?