Thoughts on Frag Cannons for PVE.

[Ashnak]

If I want to kill NPCs, I take this.

Yes, they have restricted ammo and yes, you do need to get up close. But unless you have them engineered for longer range, even lasers work best below 500 meters. And that ammo count isn't that much limiting in RES farming. Comparing my pure frag Vulture against a full beam loadout, the beam loadout permits me to stay in action longer, but also takes longer to the kill. So the overall kills/hr is about the same, if I include the trips back to a convenient outpost for reloading.
The nice thing about beefed up frags is the 1-2 punch action. The burst damage output is so insane, if I'm interdicted in Ballroom Blitz by your average random pirate NPC, they're usually dead before my FSD has cooled down. Going nose to nose with a frag boat to scan their cargo is a deadly mistake.

One other thing, I've only observed it once or twice so far: with 3.3, at least some of the NPCs turn tail when things go too bad for them. With lasers, I couldn't stop them from jumping out. With frags/pacs, it's just a matter of getting within range for maybe half a second (or however long it takes you to press the thrigger three times).

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

If I want to kill NPCs, I take this.

Yes, they have restricted ammo and yes, you do need to get up close. But unless you have them engineered for longer range, even lasers work best below 500 meters. And that ammo count isn't that much limiting in RES farming. Comparing my pure frag Vulture against a full beam loadout, the beam loadout permits me to stay in action longer, but also takes longer to the kill. So the overall kills/hr is about the same, if I include the trips back to a convenient outpost for reloading.
The nice thing about beefed up frags is the 1-2 punch action. The burst damage output is so insane, if I'm interdicted in Ballroom Blitz by your average random pirate NPC, they're usually dead before my FSD has cooled down. Going nose to nose with a frag boat to scan their cargo is a deadly mistake.

One other thing, I've only observed it once or twice so far: with 3.3, at least some of the NPCs turn tail when things go too bad for them. With lasers, I couldn't stop them from jumping out. With frags/pacs, it's just a matter of getting within range for maybe half a second (or however long it takes you to press the thrigger three times).

If you change your engineering to OC you'll get more out of those Pacifiers.
DPS will be even higher and you won't burn through ammo as fast as rapid fire or double shot.

 

[Bigmaec]

Hi guys, What are your thoughts of putting a bunch of these for High Ext zones and bounty hunting? All of these would be in PVE. I would be putting them on a Challenger. Please let me know what you thing and if its better then MC.

Thanks


Hugo

I always gleefully giggle when flying my double frag Vulture. For about 5 minutes

 

[Ashnak]

If you change your engineering to OC you'll get more out of those Pacifiers.
DPS will be even higher and you won't burn through ammo as fast as rapid fire or double shot.

Didn't we already have this discussion ?

https://s.orbis.zone/1txl - yes, OC gets the highest burst DPS, but look at the sustained DPS. As soon as you have to reload, OC is only slightly better than DS, and both lose out against RF. That 2.5 second reload really hurts. And sorry for the wrong link - the loadout I actually use is 3xRF, 2 with screening shell, one with corrosive. Yes, OC has the advantage of a higher total damage, but for me, the reload time is the killer argument.

 

[Aashenfox]

Fixed, obviously, and yes, great for pve, not so much for pvp, at least not against someone who can control the engagement range.

My opinoin once again on the DS vs OC debate... Double shot is RUBBISH compared to overcharged. The dps is about hte same but overcharged has way less inconveniences. Most of the time double shot is great, but SOMETIMES, if one of your guns malfunctions, or you happen to be super low on weap cap at the time, one doesn't fire. From that point on, the double shots get more and more out of sync and lose more and more dps (as you fire while one is reloading). The only way to get them back in sync is to waste ammo spamming them until they're all reloading. Considering the dps is basically the same, sync is just something you don't want to have to worry about. I know it doesn't happen often, but when it happens, it drops their dps a LOT more than OC.

The math on this one is irrelevant, although I do think it favors OC as well (coriolis figures are not accurate for their true sustained dps).

Bonus fact, Screening Shell isn't for the reload, though that is a nice bonus, it actually allows you to shoot down munitions more effectively such as packhounds, missiles, torpedoes and mines. It is actually the highest dps special you can put on Frags, but is not more useful than the thermal damage from incendiary, or the debuff of corrosive, and once again if you have a mix of screening shell and other mods, you are going to have reload sync issues, hence it's a rare choice.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Didn't we already have this discussion ?

https://s.orbis.zone/1txl - yes, OC gets the highest burst DPS, but look at the sustained DPS. As soon as you have to reload, OC is only slightly better than DS, and both lose out against RF. That 2.5 second reload really hurts. And sorry for the wrong link - the loadout I actually use is 3xRF, 2 with screening shell, one with corrosive. Yes, OC has the advantage of a higher total damage, but for me, the reload time is the killer argument.

Probably!

That assumes you land every pellet, and that your target is basically parked in front of you.
I do realize this might often be the case in PVE, especially lately.
But be that as it may there's a significant advantage of having each pellet doing almost twice the damage, in addition to the effectively deeper reserves.
You don't have to land them as often.


It also bears noting that 2.5 secs is actually shorter than the spin up time for a C3 MC @ 2.75.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

They are good but the ammo capacity sucks balls.

 

[Red Zephyr]

Last night I took my frag Clipper to a CZ one last time before I sell it. Frags still do okay, but the Spec Ops ships were a problem for the ammo limit. I couldn't finish all four with my limited ammo on G5 frags (no experimental yet).

With enemies generally buffed, they just don't last long enough, in my opinion. I started a thread in Suggestions about ammo, being a cannon lover.

 

[Sylow]

They're pretty good for assassination missions, but almost useless for anything else due to small ammo reserves.

Not completely true. It just depends on the setup. I mean yes, if you go all frag for RES hunting, you'll use up your ammo in no time. But in a more diverse setup, where frags are the "finisher" when shields are down, they actually last longer than you'd expect.

On the rest of the topic: it very much depends on the ship if frags are good and if you should go gimbaled or not. On a small and agile ship, fixed frags are great. You have the speed to control the distance and the ability to bring them on target easily.

The mentioned cutter, while being rather fast for its size, is not known for its agility. So it's better advised with gimbaled. And if your ship is on the slow side and has problems controlling the distance to the target, you better leave frags at home. You need some speed advantage to be able to use them properly.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Check CMDR Echo3 on YouTube. FAoff gimballed jousting burst machine mamba looks pretty correct.

 

[Vardaugas]

I love the Chieftain with Cytoscramblers and Pacifiers for bounty hunting. You can line up behind an Anaconda and shred it in seconds. It's beautiful.

 

[biohazard15]

Not completely true. It just depends on the setup. I mean yes, if you go all frag for RES hunting, you'll use up your ammo in no time. But in a more diverse setup, where frags are the "finisher" when shields are down, they actually last longer than you'd expect.

On the rest of the topic: it very much depends on the ship if frags are good and if you should go gimbaled or not. On a small and agile ship, fixed frags are great. You have the speed to control the distance and the ability to bring them on target easily.

The mentioned cutter, while being rather fast for its size, is not known for its agility. So it's better advised with gimbaled. And if your ship is on the slow side and has problems controlling the distance to the target, you better leave frags at home. You need some speed advantage to be able to use them properly.

Multicannons, especially huge ones, are much more universal than frags. At least gimballed ones (I never use fixed MCs).
- Unlike frags, they have no problems with small targets, including enemy's powerplant.
- They can be used to cast corrosive "debuffs". Huge MC really shines here, since it has no spin-up. Laser-based builds with one huge MC allow truly ridiculous times in RES, with equally ridiculous payout - without any need to reload\synthesize ammo. Smaller MCs work too, but not so well.
- MCs have the autoloader, which effectively removes reloading.

That being said, I've used a full-frag T-10(!!!) for wing assassination missions back in 3.0, when your targets were the Big 3, not FDLs. Worked great. Rapid-fire plus screening shells to remove reloadings. Gimballed, of course. Sadly, when 3.1 hit and nerfed these missions, this beautiful "flying lupara" went into the museum.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

They're a PvP meta, I don't see why they wouldn't work for PvE.

If ammo is an issue, just synthesize. Standard reloads should be pretty cheap, mat-wise.

 

[dm06]

I used high capacity gimballed class 1 on Federal Corvette for corrosive effect only. Sprayed shieldless targets periodically trying to keep them under corrosive effect all the time.

 

[Mohrgan]

Multicannons, especially huge ones, are much more universal than frags. At least gimballed ones (I never use fixed MCs).
- Unlike frags, they have no problems with small targets, including enemy's powerplant.
- They can be used to cast corrosive "debuffs". Huge MC really shines here, since it has no spin-up. Laser-based builds with one huge MC allow truly ridiculous times in RES, with equally ridiculous payout - without any need to reload\synthesize ammo. Smaller MCs work too, but not so well.
- MCs have the autoloader, which effectively removes reloading.

That being said, I've used a full-frag T-10(!!!) for wing assassination missions back in 3.0, when your targets were the Big 3, not FDLs. Worked great. Rapid-fire plus screening shells to remove reloadings. Gimballed, of course. Sadly, when 3.1 hit and nerfed these missions, this beautiful "flying lupara" went into the museum.

The trouble with MC's is TTK. I found I spent way more time chipping away at a target with MC's, than when I use use a Frag or two as spike damage. The more time spent bringing a targets hull down, whittling away, is more time spent under your foes fire. in short: MC's just take too long.

 

[Imo]

I use the big ammo clip on all of my fragment turrets. ^^

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Absolutely OP. I use a frag' paired with a beam for PvE PowerPlay murder.

 

[Tarman]

It's a fun and satisfying weapon. Giant space shotguns, what's not to like?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

It's a fun and satisfying weapon. Giant space shotguns, what's not to like?

V-Wing from OG SWB2 was best fighter because shotguns. That thing i was OP.

 

[Sylow]

Multicannons, especially huge ones, are much more universal than frags. At least gimballed ones (I never use fixed MCs).
[...]

Nothing of what i wrote argued against multicannons. I mean, pulse lasers and multicannons, they are the vanilla and strawberry of this games weapons. And just like with ice cream, you can't go wrong with them. But you also won't surprise anybody fulfill the need for anything exotic.

All i expressed is that in a good setup, used only at the right time, frags can also last for a while for PvE purposes.