Thoughts On Starbases

[Hanni79]

One Entrance-only and one Exit-only was something I brought up very early in the DDF, but no one listened. It IS a bad design choice. Especially in systems / stations with lots of traffic.

There WILL be lots of people not capable to properly fly their ship like intended (simply due to being new to the game) as well as people who simply will not care for others. Having one Entrance-only and one Exit-only would have elegantly solved this but nooo....

Well, enough rant, it will work out, but it could have been better/smoother in that regard.

 

[avow555]

Yeh the first row of docking pads need to go, perhaps an extension to the docking area may be appropriate.

 

[Storagebod]

Perhaps you can pay extra for a preferred docking pad.

Space-stations could run a loyalty scheme for their regulars. Much like Hilton points...

'Your normal pad Commander? Usual newsfeed and wake-up call?'

 

[Witzo]

Knowing how difficult it was to land back in 1987 without a docking computer,

1: You cannot see the bay on entry to the star port

Sweet.

2: When leaving the bay you run the risk of hitting anyone else who is exiting the star port as they do not expect a ship to appear in front of them directly in front of the exit.

Brilliant.

3: For the same reason as point 2, ships that are currently coming though the entrance, do not expect to see a ship pop up in front of them at point blank range.

Hilarious!

 

[Yaffle]

Poor design? A poor design would be to waste valuable docking pad space. Granted, I dislike those pads for the same reason as the opening post, but I consider those pads as the equivalent of parking at the back of a parking lot.

Indeed.

Or whenever I fly I seem to land at gate 14,506 which requires a bus to carry me for fifteen minutes to a terminal building, where I am dropped at gate 965 for a thirty five minute walk to immigration. Even then any checked luggage is another twenty minutes behind me.

Inconvenience is quite realistic really.

 

[Iskariot]

Indeed.

Or whenever I fly I seem to land at gate 14,506 which requires a bus to carry me for fifteen minutes to a terminal building, where I am dropped at gate 965 for a thirty five minute walk to immigration. Even then any checked luggage is another twenty minutes behind me.

Inconvenience is quite realistic really.

Exactly!
As far as I am concerned a Coriolis is what a Coriolis is.
Making it childproof is not what Elite is about.
There will be other stations with other configs I suppose.
I like feeling a little stress when approaching the docking entrance of a Coriolis station.

 

[Commander Jake Skyrunner]

So, as an example, you have just finished a long distance hop from 3-5 or more star systems and about to land and reap the benefits of your time, only to find you explode into a fiery mess when you come though the docking port after colliding with someone taking off from one of the very front bays who suddenly appeared in front of you at point blank range.... , you will shrug it off happily knowing that the realism from real life is there? For me, when you have done everything right to earn the amount you have in ED, and to then have it taken away by someone who only lifted off from their landing pad.....is annoying. I would not mind if we were in battle... but do I really now have to edge into a star port at 2 millimeters an hour to make sure noone pops up in front of me???

(I am not out to argue with anyone, and I am only looking for opinions against the scenario, and please, everyone, do not belittle anyone's response here, everyone has their own opinion. )

 

[Storagebod]

So, as an example, you have just finished a long distance hop from 3-5 or more star systems and about to land and reap the benefits of your time, only to find you explode into a fiery mess when you come though the docking port after colliding with someone taking off from one of the very front bays who suddenly appeared in front of you at point blank range.... , you will shrug it off happily knowing that the realism from real life is there? For me, when you have done everything right to earn the amount you have in ED, and to then have it taken away by someone who only lifted off from their landing pad.....is annoying. I would not mind if we were in battle... but do I really now have to edge into a star port at 2 millimeters an hour to make sure noone pops up in front of me???

(I am not out to argue with anyone, and I am only looking for opinions against the scenario, and please, everyone, do not belittle anyone's response here, everyone has their own opinion. )

You know what, I wonder if we are looking at some things the wrong way and I don't want to open a can of worms...When we get to flying the big ships with loads of cargo; perhaps space-ports should offer the option of a tug service for a fee. They It could be high but this does have a real world analogue. The bigger ships are not spitfires in space; they are container carriers....

The tug fee also includes cargo insurance....

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So, as an example, you have just finished a long distance hop from 3-5 or more star systems and about to land and reap the benefits of your time, only to find you explode into a fiery mess when you come though the docking port after colliding with someone taking off from one of the very front bays who suddenly appeared in front of you at point blank range.... , you will shrug it off happily knowing that the realism from real life is there? For me, when you have done everything right to earn the amount you have in ED, and to then have it taken away by someone who only lifted off from their landing pad.....is annoying. I would not mind if we were in battle... but do I really now have to edge into a star port at 2 millimeters an hour to make sure noone pops up in front of me???

That's for you to answer, but if I where you, yeah, I would be very careful when docking with all money in cargo you have.

That's how Elite goes and have gone for years. It's not an easy game, no one said it is. Joy is to beat the odds, not to crash while landing and arrive without hole in your hull at your destination. Otherwise game would be just grinding without any challenge.

 

[Commander Jake Skyrunner]

Well they have said that ship to ship docking will happen eventually... perhaps they could incorporate a small cargo transport craft that a pilot would purchase as an add on to the ship. Then when they arrive near to a port, the pilot can press a key which then transfers them to the cargo transport ship, you then (with cargo destined for this station) leave your own 'mother ship'(for want of a better description) , dock with the port, offload the incoming cargo, buy some new cargo, depart the station and dock with your own 'mother ship' offload the new cargo... this in it self will take several trips, as the transport craft will not hold as much as your main ship.

 

[timbow]

You do realise that ships inside the station are on your scanner don't you? Most of the issues are down to a complete lack of situational awareness, and an expectation that you don't have to concentrate as others will.......

 

[Amadeus]

Docking is too easy IMO.

Back in the old days it were a white knuckle ride without a docking computer.

Check the radar for any surprises and burn through.

 

[Commander Jake Skyrunner]

If I am halfway in the entrance in an anaconda and someone rises up from below and hits the underside of my ship, how is that my fault ? I am fully aware what's around me, It's others that have not got the consideration to look before moving, you are making the right point, but at the wrong party....

 

[Phil^]

Tradition dictated the devs start with the classic, iconic Coriolis design. They could have punched a hole through the other side and had a flowing, much friendlier, much easier and more logical one-way system. They could have had two letterboxes, one atop the other, for in and out maybe.

Instead they took a design that SHOULD work (the interior) and matched it with a design that stuffs it up (the entrance). You can make up all the in-game reasons you like for the choice but as an old knight once said, 'they chose... poorly'.

Actually they chose logically as far as I'm concerned compared to your alternatives.

With two holes - one for exit and one for entrance, you'll end up with people exiting from the entrance and entering from the exit, so effectively for traffic its the same scenario as now with the added bonus of fiery death delivered by station defences.

With one letterbox on top of / beside the other, the rotation will be a problem as the letterbox is no longer on the axis of rotation, forcing any ship to track it around the station rotation while trying to line up.

 

[Phil^]

One thing that would make pads more interesting would be to have more than one ship hangared per pad, up to 4 maybe. It's going to be intersting with congestion in the core systems when the game proper gets going.

Congestion of the pads isnt going to be a problem surely with 32 players per instance limits?

 

[Shepard]

ha ha !

Back of the parking lot... I like it... Please don't get me wrong, I can land on these pads with as much ease as any other pad, the reason I just don't like them is because I cant see them on the way in, and the other reason is getting in other peoples way on the way out...

Casing point (which is why I created this post ) I was parked up the back in one station, and was sitting there just watching other people, and a Sidewinder took off from a front entrance pad, went straight up vertical to entrance level, scared the crap out of an hauler who was coming in to the station though the entrance, the hauler took avoiding action, scraping the side of the entrance, the Sidewinder attempted to get out the way by continuing it's assent above the entrance but collided with the station roof and exploded. The hauler managed to dock but had sparks coming off it all over the place...

I guess when it comes to docking, think of star wars and be mindful of your surroundings... hah

I think its just the same like in real life - you learn everything new. The problem is that in real life you have to pass exams and tests before you get your driver's license, in game everyone who has 40$ will be able to fly the ship. And a lot of people have no slightest idea that there is a right and a wrong way in and out of the station.

They just see the crack and fly in. Those older ones have experience driving a car and they will try to stick to the 'rules' even though they are not enforced. But keeping this all in mind in order for things to be in order there should be means of enforcing that order.

In Elite nobody enforces the rule of a thumb - go in on green side, go out on green side - otherwise you are an idiot. But most of the people don't care, don't know or just didnt notice. It would be fun if you could get penalized by station services if you entered the station on a wrong side. That would teach all the pilots the manners and etiquette of the flying in close proximity of the stations.

 

[Phil^]

If I am halfway in the entrance in an anaconda and someone rises up from below and hits the underside of my ship, how is that my fault ? I am fully aware what's around me, It's others that have not got the consideration to look before moving, you are making the right point, but at the wrong party....

When launching, you have to clear the distance from the pad by quite a way before the radar reverts back to normal mode allowing you to see ships. This should probably happen the moment you lift off instead of leaving it in "landing assist mode" as that makes no sense when leaving.

When coming in, you have more of a chance to see any potential issues on the radar than the ships taking off will do.

Ideally the launch permission shouldn't be granted if it will place you in the path of an oncoming ship when you go "vertically" up

 

[Bromley86]

No, it's not bad design. In fact DDF predicted that you will have waiting time till other ship docks before assigned docking pad. It's clearly not enabled yet.

So instead of everyone rushing at exit/entry, they will just have to wait outside, as it was supposed to be by design.

Genius! A queue simulator.

That's for you to answer, but if I where you, yeah, I would be very careful when docking with all money in cargo you have.

That's how Elite goes and have gone for years. It's not an easy game, no one said it is. Joy is to beat the odds, not to crash while landing and arrive without hole in your hull at your destination. Otherwise game would be just grinding without any challenge.

It's not fun to battle space pirates, fight your way through, skillfully dock and then get floored by someone who you couldn't reasonably predict would be there or do that. If you like that sort of play, you can always kick your PC's power lead every 30 minutes .

With two holes - one for exit and one for entrance, you'll end up with people exiting from the entrance and entering from the exit, so effectively for traffic its the same scenario as now with the added bonus of fiery death delivered by station defences.

With one letterbox on top of / beside the other, the rotation will be a problem as the letterbox is no longer on the axis of rotation, forcing any ship to track it around the station rotation while trying to line up.

I agree with your over-and-under letterbox point. Innie & outies would be much preferable to a two-way flow if you're trying to (a) minimise accidents and (b) minimise griefing. People are simply not going to try to accidentally enter the wrong hole more than once. Big signs, laser fire and points on the licence will solve that. Unlike a two-way solution, it's really easy to prove who was in the wrong.

That applies to griefing as well. People often (incorrectly) think that griefing is people deliberately killing others, when in fact getting a ship and jamming the letterbox for 10 minutes is text book griefing.

 

[Commander Mick]

Hello,

is it just me or do others really hate being assigned the docking bays right under the entrance of the star port (any star port).

I am not saying this because I cannot land there, I just find these the most difficult bays due to :

1: You cannot see the bay on entry to the star port
2: When leaving the bay you run the risk of hitting anyone else who is exiting the star port as they do not expect a ship to appear in front of them directly in front of the exit.
3: For the same reason as point 2, ships that are currently coming though the entrance, do not expect to see a ship pop up in front of them at point blank range.

I really wish there was a 'Request different Port' communication option with star port traffic control. At least then there is the chance of a landing bay further inside the station.

Also while I am here... please PLEASE PLEASE can people enter and exit the star ports on the correct side. If you look at the entrance and the exit, there is a GREEN side and a RED side. You fly in on the GREEN side, you fly out on the GREEN side. This is so ships can come in and out at the same time and not expect to see a ship ballistically heading towards them on the wrong side of the entrance / exit port of the station.

.....ok... nag over.... as you were..

Yep, they should move all of the landing pads away from the entrance. Not that I have too much of problem with vertical landing and take-off.

I never knew I had to keep to one side of the entrance and exit when using it. I always try to remain in the centre, but ever since those red/green lights have been pointed out to me. I been putting the red ones on my left from then on.

If they're really strict about this, the Parking-Authority should announce this to on your ship's coms.....

 

[ste]

Why does it have to be perfect,

traffic jams, lack of decent parking spaces, pirates, trouble docking, the cost of fuel, some idiot crashing into your cobra while trying to park, how it was better in the olden days.. I imagine thats basically all you would hear people moaning about down the local dock pub in 3300AD on a sunday afternoon.