I don't think so, what kind of station would have steady 300t missions deliveries but not prepare for medium ships? if the game had more depth we would probably get some bigger sized non landable, non dockable ships requesting these kind of missions. They would probably use smaller shuttles for delivery s they cannot afford a bigger hangar. Maybe they shouldn't even have a landing pad and instead just some kind of docking terminal.
Good points, well made.
The Cobra MkIV issue would be solved fairly simply by adding a T-6alike (T-5?) that had better stats than the CIV.
Note that the CIV has several issues associated with it, I'm only addressing the small pad meta-ship issue.
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This is a small ship argument for cargo reasons. There are other reasons to own small ships, for which I own several: Sidey, Viper, DBX, Courier. Small ships are fun to fly and small pads are fun to land on. I support this proposal to add ports with S pads only. For no other reason than I think that its realistic. There should be bases/stations/outposts in the galaxy with nothing but S pads for all kinds of reasons.
Thank you OP
Thank you OP
Those who are against the idea of small-size only locations must be thinking they'll be missing out on quality content if it were to happen.
Personally I think it should just be about supporting a variety of playstyles and rewarding them with different experiences.
Obviously we can't have Large only pads (because small ships can land on Large if smaller ones are all full) but large ships do already have their own content that smaller ships can't do... such as large cargo runs.
If small pad only stations were added in, we should have it so that missions requiring you to go to one are filtered out of the mission board (isn't' that already done with Outposts now for large ships?)
Personally I think it should just be about supporting a variety of playstyles and rewarding them with different experiences.
Obviously we can't have Large only pads (because small ships can land on Large if smaller ones are all full) but large ships do already have their own content that smaller ships can't do... such as large cargo runs.
If small pad only stations were added in, we should have it so that missions requiring you to go to one are filtered out of the mission board (isn't' that already done with Outposts now for large ships?)
To be fair, the "Cobra 4 problem" was largely negated with the introduction of the Dolphin.
Sure, it has 1 less slot and utterly lousy hardpoints so it can't do everything the CM4 does, or do it as well (relatively speaking) as the CM4, and it's all kinds of wrong that a space-bus that looks like an "intimate massager" should be the only competition for a "P2W" multirole ship but it's almost there - and it creates the sort of compromises that ED is often all about.
Would certainly be nice to have a proper alternative for the CM4 though - one that you could pilot without feeling like you're at the controls of a flying advert for LoveHoney.com [blah]
That's why I keep moaning that they should introduce a "Cobra Mk3 Heavy", with the same optional internals as the CM4, give it similar performance to the CM4 but let the CM4 keep it's extra hardpoint.
Maybe instead of small pad only stations, which would be an odd 'addition' to the game now, how about places where only small ships fit?
Like complex space bases/ruins, with narrow tunnels and tight turns (a bit like the CQC structures, but more complex) and things to shoot(and be shot by), scan and collect?
Shops over a certain size would simply get stuck. They'd be literally gated out. Lol
Plenty of ideas for these places, for Human, Thargoid and Guardian, plus just large asteroids with small holes in to fly through.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Like complex space bases/ruins, with narrow tunnels and tight turns (a bit like the CQC structures, but more complex) and things to shoot(and be shot by), scan and collect?
Shops over a certain size would simply get stuck. They'd be literally gated out. Lol
Plenty of ideas for these places, for Human, Thargoid and Guardian, plus just large asteroids with small holes in to fly through.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Why not both?
I mean small size only pads can make sense for distant outposts like the deserted kind we found out there, where a small ship would no doubt shuttle scientists to an Anaconda type ship in orbit, and said shuttle used for local science team parties. So, not a real base like what we have now, but still requiring basic facilities to do their job
Deleted member 110222
D
Wowsers. This thread took off.
Thanks for all the replies guys. Going to have a proper read on my mobile when I go to bed tonight.
Watch this space.
Thanks for all the replies guys. Going to have a proper read on my mobile when I go to bed tonight.
Watch this space.
good idea, and I often asked myself why this wasn't the case already.
See, this is something where I think FDev sometimes underestimate the players.
They seem to think they need to "explain" everything in context of when it happens.
I don't think that's necessary.
I doubt many (if any?) players would complain about "retcon" as long as the new feature provided interesting new gameplay.
Would anybody be upset if, say, every surface-outpost in every low-tech system suddenly became small-pad only, if it meant there was new gameplay whereby delivering stuff to that outpost would allow it to grow into a medium-pad and then large-pad outpost and get improved facilities (market, shipyard, outfitting, IF etc) with each upgrade?
How about if certain systems suddenly changed their laws so that you could only legally fly small ships?
That'd give players chance to build small ships for whatever tasks were available in that system and it'd create gameplay for outlaws/smugglers who could operate large ships in those systems illegally.
By way of example, let's say there's a system where there's a a mining/extraction economy.
Maybe they're mining LTDs or precious metals in that system and they think the best way to protect their interests is to ban medium or large ships from the system.
The system would offer an elevated number of missions related to mining valuable stuff, transporting it, recovering it and protecting it... all in small ships.
That all sounds fairly plausible to me, and it'd create a heap of gameplay specifically for small ships and it'd create a target for outlaws in big ships.
Wings of Vipers and iCouriers transporting LTDs vs an outlaw in a Corvette? Sounds like fun to me.
This seems to me like there is a perception of a problem, when there really is none.
I'm having trouble visualizing how a station with small pads only is factually any different than any other station you can currently dock with, which is all them where docking is available at all. How is this small-pad only station going to magically change the game for small ship pilots? These stations would have to have their own version of the Mission Board, which is creating a potential extra set of problems in order to solve a single problem that doesn't exist in the first place.
Small ships have their place(s) and their niche(s) in the game, but neither of those are at the top end of the three Pillars, nor should they be.
I think a better approach would be for Frontier to implement Mission types that are just better done in a small ship due to how they function out in the field. Most of these Missions would likely be of the clandestine variety, requiring a ship that is small, fast, and nimble, and trying to use a larger ship just makes the Mission much more difficult, if not impossible. In other words, your shield tank Cutter is probably going to get roasted, but your Cobra can (with skill and maybe some strategy) outrun the danger, or maybe avoid it completely.
My thoughts, delivered.
Riôt
I'm having trouble visualizing how a station with small pads only is factually any different than any other station you can currently dock with, which is all them where docking is available at all. How is this small-pad only station going to magically change the game for small ship pilots? These stations would have to have their own version of the Mission Board, which is creating a potential extra set of problems in order to solve a single problem that doesn't exist in the first place.
Small ships have their place(s) and their niche(s) in the game, but neither of those are at the top end of the three Pillars, nor should they be.
I think a better approach would be for Frontier to implement Mission types that are just better done in a small ship due to how they function out in the field. Most of these Missions would likely be of the clandestine variety, requiring a ship that is small, fast, and nimble, and trying to use a larger ship just makes the Mission much more difficult, if not impossible. In other words, your shield tank Cutter is probably going to get roasted, but your Cobra can (with skill and maybe some strategy) outrun the danger, or maybe avoid it completely.
My thoughts, delivered.
Riôt
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If I had to choose 4 ships. IEagle, Cobra mkIII, Python and Clipper. I have the big 4. T-10, Beluga, Cutter, Corvette. They sit collecting dust.
So a big Ell yes for more small ship shenanigans.
So a big Ell yes for more small ship shenanigans.
I love reading your posts stealthie, if your imagination could be coded and put into this game without the conflicts of interest between users/business/creators it would be quite sublime.
Had this exact talk back in 2016
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/316967-Small-Pad-Only-Outposts-Installations
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/316967-Small-Pad-Only-Outposts-Installations
We couldn't partially complete a trade mission in 2016 though.
Maybe keep the small-pads-only card in reserve for now and use it for a new, different kind of content instead. I guess it's too late for the smuggler base carved out of an asteroid, but FDev is constantly adding new stuff; mega-ships like the Gnosis have landing pads. Maybe a future mega-ship or ghost ship or some other plot-driven construction could be small-only?
I would definitely like to see some small-only destinations, but I feel that the system of station and station missions are deeply established and I wouldn't really want to throw resources at fixing what ain't broken when the small-only mechanic could be used to make an upcoming feature more unusual.
If you make a station small-only, a lot of players will regard it as a penalty because it's taking away from something they already have (stations with better docking). But if you apply the exact same mechanic to new content, you can make it a feature of that content, which makes it appeal as a cool thing instead of a bad thing to more players. Especially if canyon racing beneath the reach of gun emplacements is involved, or some other situation where to reach the [research platform] you have to run the gauntlet in a vulnerable ship, so it's down to your flying skills
I would definitely like to see some small-only destinations, but I feel that the system of station and station missions are deeply established and I wouldn't really want to throw resources at fixing what ain't broken when the small-only mechanic could be used to make an upcoming feature more unusual.
If you make a station small-only, a lot of players will regard it as a penalty because it's taking away from something they already have (stations with better docking). But if you apply the exact same mechanic to new content, you can make it a feature of that content, which makes it appeal as a cool thing instead of a bad thing to more players. Especially if canyon racing beneath the reach of gun emplacements is involved, or some other situation where to reach the [research platform] you have to run the gauntlet in a vulnerable ship, so it's down to your flying skills
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Craith
Volunteer Moderator
Well thought out post Un1k0rn - I do hope that in the future there will be small pad only stations. Ideal together with a Ship-Launched-Shuttle, that can ferry 4-8 tons of cargo (4 with shields, 8 without - could be different versions like SLFs, even though I'd prefer outfitting for SLFs, SRVs to come at one point), and a cargo transfer limpet (please with combined limpet controller units, keep total controlled number of limpets like current, not sure if I'd prefer slots to be filled at outfitting or flexible programming just in time ... I know what is more convenient, but I like also meaningful decisions and planing ... back to the point ...)
It makes sense from an In-Universe point ... not every house has a garage for a truck, and it makes no sense to build one if you never plan to use it. Big, official installations of course would have bigger pads, but a small scientific outpost for 10 people might have only one or two small pads. A temporary fence/smuggler outpost (could be only persistant until the next server update hint hint) that sells cheap stolen goods or goods illegal in the current jurisdicton might not even want the high profile of bigger ships jumping there. No need to show them from 1000 ls away ... 100, 20 or even 10 ls is plenty in space (might be better to wait on the 3.3 scan mechanics and include them as a weak signal) - planetside even 1Mm might make for a nice surprise when exploring a planetary surface, you find an outpost with some scientists, they might be interested in a few strange things, for which you get paid handsomely if you bring them, or they might have a single transport mission for a sick crew member, stuff like that.
I don't think large and medium ships get left out - there is already a lot of things that big ones can do that small ones can't. Bulk Trading, Bulk Passenger Missions, Wing Assassinations, Big Thargoid hunting (yes, there are some who are able to do it probably). I also don't think all of the new stuff suggested above should be small only all the time ... some big smuggler rings might fly with Asps and Anacondas.
It makes sense from an In-Universe point ... not every house has a garage for a truck, and it makes no sense to build one if you never plan to use it. Big, official installations of course would have bigger pads, but a small scientific outpost for 10 people might have only one or two small pads. A temporary fence/smuggler outpost (could be only persistant until the next server update hint hint) that sells cheap stolen goods or goods illegal in the current jurisdicton might not even want the high profile of bigger ships jumping there. No need to show them from 1000 ls away ... 100, 20 or even 10 ls is plenty in space (might be better to wait on the 3.3 scan mechanics and include them as a weak signal) - planetside even 1Mm might make for a nice surprise when exploring a planetary surface, you find an outpost with some scientists, they might be interested in a few strange things, for which you get paid handsomely if you bring them, or they might have a single transport mission for a sick crew member, stuff like that.
I don't think large and medium ships get left out - there is already a lot of things that big ones can do that small ones can't. Bulk Trading, Bulk Passenger Missions, Wing Assassinations, Big Thargoid hunting (yes, there are some who are able to do it probably). I also don't think all of the new stuff suggested above should be small only all the time ... some big smuggler rings might fly with Asps and Anacondas.
Very good idea. It would be only logic that not every economy can afford big stations. Some variety with small stations and gameplay geared to small pads would be great.
After all, everyone who has played with the big ships for a while will get bored eventually and see that small ships are the bigger fun.
Simple formula: Limitations cause challenge, challenge causes fun.
+1, OP
After all, everyone who has played with the big ships for a while will get bored eventually and see that small ships are the bigger fun.
Simple formula: Limitations cause challenge, challenge causes fun.
+1, OP
I hope that this never comes, it would only give the big ship players even more advantage and it would be totaly unfair to the others.
Instead give these bigger ships a little cargo ship without weapons or anything else, so they would be bussy for a while to unload.
I agree on the little docks, especially on planets/moons and maybe a new kinda little outpost for scientics.