Time sinks? Joking surely?

Thank you for posting your opinion.
ED is a video game, not the real world. When you jump to another star system you are essentially selecting an instance and going through a loading screen. You could say hyperspace jumps are a (boring) time sink built around a technical limitation.

There's nothing inherently wrong with time sinks as long as they're fun and well designed.
That is my opinion.
 
Tried travelling over a short journey on Earth in the real world? Seen how long it takes?
Now in ED, players can take a spaceship, refuel and repair it, start it, undock from an orbital station, fly to a distance that allows a hyper jump, jump to another star system lightyears away, travel to a particular location in the new system, dock the ship in a space station or on a planet. All in less than 5 short minutes! Time sinks - you are having a laugh.
No. I don't actually *do* any of those things.

I see pictures on my screen that are supposed to help me imagine doing those things.

"Faster than reality therefore must be fast enough"? Really? That's just dumb.

You can be happy or unhappy with ED pacing; but that support is terrible.
 
Can't people who don't want ship transfer, just not use ship transfer? Their way of playing the game is intact. Although I suppose they're busy wiping their save, because they've been destroyed, and in their RP world, it makes no sense that they're insta-transferred back to the last station they were docked at?

Personally, when I get to play maybe an hour a day after Mrs Vectron has gone to bed, and find a lucrative 1 million CR mission for 20 tonnes of Osmium, my idea of a game is not tracking back 200 LY to my T-Niner Miner, and then sluggishly returning to find that I need to get to bed as I'm up for work in the morning.

This isn't a vote for insta-win, the Osmium isn't gathered with a click of the button, I still have to kill 35 pirates, or scan planets for their valuable data. No, all that's happening is that Frontier want to lessen the boring and utterly pointless time in the game, so that we, the pilots have more of the utterly fun and meaningful time in the game.
 
There is a lot to be said about a game in which you can catch up on shows and movies while playing...
Just finished a 6,500ly mission to just outside the Bubble Nebula, in that time I managed to finish a nice hydroponics bay to my asteroid colony and watch Wall-E and The Manchurian Candidate (original) and read "The Dark Wheel" a book set in the Elite universe. Really do recommend playing ED with a 2nd monitor with something to pass the time with. Tempted to listen to "The lost fleet" audiobook for the next time I play.

Ended the day with some nice screenshots from fleet used in mission, some from inside Bubble Nebula, and some of my Starbound asteroid colony.
 
Just finished a 6,500ly mission to just outside the Bubble Nebula, in that time I managed to finish a nice hydroponics bay to my asteroid colony and watch Wall-E and The Manchurian Candidate (original) and read "The Dark Wheel" a book set in the Elite universe. Really do recommend playing ED with a 2nd monitor with something to pass the time with. Tempted to listen to "The lost fleet" audiobook for the next time I play.

Ended the day with some nice screenshots from fleet used in mission, some from inside Bubble Nebula, and some of my Starbound asteroid colony.

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Just finished a 6,500ly mission to just outside the Bubble Nebula, in that time I managed to finish a nice hydroponics bay to my asteroid colony and watch Wall-E and The Manchurian Candidate (original) and read "The Dark Wheel" a book set in the Elite universe. Really do recommend playing ED with a 2nd monitor with something to pass the time with. Tempted to listen to "The lost fleet" audiobook for the next time I play.

Ended the day with some nice screenshots from fleet used in mission, some from inside Bubble Nebula, and some of my Starbound asteroid colony.

This game is perfect for audio books while you play. Especially for deep space exploring.
 
I'm not the one who is so "upset" that they're whining in the forums trying to make fdev put an additional countdown timer into the game.

The problem here is that you see it as just a timer, a timesink, you see only the mechanical side of it: it prevents you from taking part in whatever arbitrary aspect of the gameplay you'd like to engage in with that ship. But Elite: Dangerous isn't just gameplay. Gameplay is important, but there's more than just gameplay to a game, especially one like ED. ED is an experience, the experience of living the life of a space pilot in the year 3300. As such, internal consistency is important. For some of us how a feature fits with that experience is even more important than the gameplay value of that feature. And the more things take you out of the experience and remind you you're just playing a video game the further we get from The Vision. To quote DB himself: "actually in many ways it doesn't feel like a game: it feels like a world I'm being brought into" (btw that video also mentions watching cargobeing loaded :p)

And in this world, ships take time to travel.
Of course Sandro&Co's job is to make sure that all these features meant to make the world richer also create interesting gameplay opportunities. That's probably why currently ship maintenance and cargo loading is instant: we can't walk around our ships or stations, so adding these delays now would just close off gameplay.
 
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This game is perfect for audio books while you play. Especially for deep space exploring.
Any recommendations? I'd prefer sci-fi if possible but finding sci-fi audiobooks is difficult. I had more luck finding 30's to 50's sci-fi radio dramas which are actually rather fun to listen to. Oh and listening to "Buck Rodgers" is a treat even though only a few of the episodes survived to this day.
 
The problem I have with ED isnt the travel time, more the amount of effort some trivial things take. Take for example RNGineering, IRL I have my work backed up on a pen drive and in the cloud. With RNGineers, if I want to upgrade my FSD I need to get some scans of anomalous FSD wakes. That takes time hanging out side a station targetting and scanning wakes as players / NPC's jump away. Yet if I want to apply the same upgrade to the jump drive of one of my other ships, I need to repeat the process of getting the wakes scanned as the data I obtained has been consumed by the process of crafting the first upgrade. Surely to [deity] there has to be file copying built into our 34th century operating systems? So Sticking with RNGineers for minute, I needed polonium in the early days of 2.1 - I'm sure y'all remember how hard it was to find? And that was meant to be in the 34th century where we mine asteroids and planets on a regular basis. Yet in the 21st century $275/kg available online. In game players would have been willing to pay millions for a couple of grammes of polonium.

Naval rank is another one, getting rank is an unnecessarily painful ache. Because there is no episodic content within the game, you have to haul this / fetch that as a way of building up reputation, then you get a naval ascension mission and get promoted. Many players who want the rank locked ships then end up feeling like they have to grind the ranks by spamming missions. Pre 2.1 donation missions were the most effective way of ranking up. Many many many corvette owners got their rear admiral ranks by means of donating credits to 17 Draconis. Splashing your cash around charities doesnt make you worthy of being a high ranking officer, it makes you a philanthropist. but you cannot just donate 10M credits to end the suffering in [begging system name] you have to do it a few thousand at a time many thousands of times over. That is another pure time sink.

We could just as easily make it an option to buy "engineering grade" minerals and chemicals from mining / refinery economiesm but only when you were friendly or allied to the controlling faction. Other materials could be available from suitable economies who you are friendly with. So players would have to work at getting allied with the faction that controls the refinery to get their polonium, then go to another system and get allied with a faction controlling a particular station there to get access to buy articulation motors.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want an I Win button, I want the game to be a challenge but surely a much better way of making players work for rank would have been to give them the option of enlisting with a superpowers navy, then getting missions dumped in their transaction tab? Those missions would be anounced by a comms message telling them they have been assigned a new mission and a summary there of? "Federal_Navy: CMDR, we urgently need you to go to [system 2 jumps away] and retrieve [cargo/data] from [star port] and deliver it to [NPC_name] who is patrolling the [Destination] system."

or "Federal_Navy: Commander, you are hereby ordered to go to the [sytem at war] and join the conflict zones and kill at least four hostile ships to provide reinforcement our weaponized espansion into that system by backing [BGS_faction] - Expedite and good hunting!"

I'm sure I don't need to comment on the pointless time sink that is powerplay.

Those are the sort of things most of us would like to see rather than repetious menial tasks or aimless roaming planets surfaces waiting on meteorites to spawn.
 
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Any recommendations? I'd prefer sci-fi if possible but finding sci-fi audiobooks is difficult. I had more luck finding 30's to 50's sci-fi radio dramas which are actually rather fun to listen to. Oh and listening to "Buck Rodgers" is a treat even though only a few of the episodes survived to this day.

i'm mainly listening to astronomy or other science podcasts while out exploring.

Does anyone else see the inherent comical value of a game that's perfect for audio books while spending time on it?

yes.

on the other hand, exploration (or bulk trade runs) come closest for me to do a walk in the woods. quality time with myself, looking at the scenery, while enjoying my drink. i can perfectly think about something else. i'm fascinated, that ED has that quality for me. something i do, when i don't want to read, do a walk thorugh the district or watch a movie to relax (also reading, or watching takes more focus normally). leisure time. in space!

a haz res is something i do when i want to be challenged/entertained. a mission (or stacked missions) is something if i want to get something done. in space!

pacing is key.

basically:

To quote DB himself: "actually in many ways it doesn't feel like a game: it feels like a world I'm being brought into" (btw that video also mentions watching cargobeing loaded in a station :p).
...
Of course Sandro&Co's job is to make sure that all these features meant to make the world richer also create interesting gameplay opportunities.

ty for resharing @jukelo

of course, what gameplay means differs between different gamers (buckyballers make gameplay basically out of the hyperjump-loading screen...), and there are parts of the game where ED severely fails to create gameplay for that world (waiting for USS spawning pharmaceutical isolators, i'm looking at you!).
 
With RNGineers, if I want to upgrade my FSD I need to get some scans of anomalous FSD wakes. That takes time hanging out side a station targetting and scanning wakes as players / NPC's jump away.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, just wanted to tell you that the best place to find wakes is at distribution centers at high population famine systems. These never last long but should be good for a good 21+ datamined wake echos from all those sidewinder relief ships jumping in and out constantly. Bring a 4km wake scanner and park yourself where the sidewinders jump out.

I also really hate the RNG of engineers and wish it was set upgrades instead of random, that upgrades could be planned for and designed by linking resources to specific effects, that blueprints could be saved and re-used and found somehow, that resources could be stored or bought. Who knows how many billions of starship crews have died in Type-7's and Type-9s just because the only way to get a chemical manipulator is from the corpse of a merchant crewman. Logically this stuff should be purchasable somewhere.

The main draw of horizons should be enjoying exploring planets, not spending days to grind for materials in random mob drops.
 
I'm not the one who is so "upset" that they're whining in the forums trying to make fdev put an additional countdown timer into the game.

If you are unable to admit that the 2.2 release has instant ship transfers and that adding a timer, literally changing the code, does not constitute a change, then there's no point in continuing to argue then you disagree with objective reality.

Please try to understand the following: people do not want a count down timer added because they want to play the game, not as you put it "kill time" and "waiting 5 minutes of your life" to play the game. They want to play the game, this game. Not other games. Not read books while they wait. Not watch tv. Not play CQC. They want to play this game in particular over other games. If you do not want to play this game then why do you want to add a timer, simply don't play Elite. Whenever someone says "well you can just play something else while you wait" makes me think that they don't even play Elite, they're trying to undermine it simply for the amusement.

Really, what other videogame is there where people would seriously say that "you can just kill time waiting by playing an other game" is considered reasonable? EVE? One of those fremium cellphone games?

I know I would never even consider ship trasnfer mechanic, instant or not. Instead I would redesign the travel mechanic to make it fun so no matter if you're on a potato FSD you would have something to do (IN GAME mechanics) while traveling.

Instant ship travel would make the game more casual eliminating the needs of upgrading FSD. You only need one ship to travel.

The problem is now you have instant ship transfer, and then what? Instant system travel? select the system you want to go and magicaly spawn there. "Why you would travel to a system if you can summon all the ships there, lets make instant hyperjump where we want". The game starts to loose parameters to become a bunch of nonsense features.

The gameplay already is pretty dumb and you can select what to do and which difficulty.
Why instead of instant ship transfer don't add more time to complete missions ? so people who has 1 hr can complete the missions easily. In fact I find some missions like "Liberate" type to have a short timeframe to complete.
 
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I cannot refrain longer from posting my opinion.

Many players are complaining about time sinks in ED, (while others see them as a core feature that sets the game above others).

Please just consider for a moment.

Tried travelling over a short journey on Earth in the real world? Seen how long it takes?
Now in ED, players can take a spaceship, refuel and repair it, start it, undock from an orbital station, fly to a distance that allows a hyper jump, jump to another star system lightyears away, travel to a particular location in the new system, dock the ship in a space station or on a planet. All in less than 5 short minutes! Time sinks - you are having a laugh.

That's a stupid argument.

I, for example, have almost the same route to work like a colleague. In winter we carpool and it takes 70 minutes to work.
In summer time I go by myself and it takes a whopping 39 minutes - almost twice as fast.
How can this be? Because I overcome the technical limitations of cars by using a motorcycle.

What you ask for in this context is for me to stop my bike a few kilometers before my destination and watch some random netflix movie for 40 minutes - just to make up for the "real life" experience of sitting in traffic that I miss out on.
 
Why people are so upset for a timer on ship transfer?
Why are people so upset for the lack of a timer on ship transfer?

For instant action there's CQC, we don't need the main game to be more casual than it already is please.
So now "having to wait" equals "not casual"? I don't think you understand the word.

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i'm mainly listening to astronomy or other science podcasts while out exploring.
Which I read as "I have to do something else while playing because the game is too boring"... which is a problem in my mind.
 
So now "having to wait" equals "not casual"? I don't think you understand the word.

With a timer you need to think in which ship you are going to travel.

If it is instantaneous you will always travel with the fastest ship. It completely bypasses gameplay mechanics.
 
ED would be more fun if we could actually traverse witch space like trans warp conduits in Voyager or slipstream in Andromeda. Kind of like you know flying through space instead of auto jump.

That sounds good on its face but then you'd be traveling in hyperspace for an hour to cross the bubble. People already complain about SC, that would be worse.

The reason that TV and movies can get away with it is that there is content, exposition and drama to watch while they are in warp. Maybe we could get FD to add the game Gwent so we'd have something to do while in hyperspace! Apparently it's quite popular.
 
Does anyone else see the inherent comical value of a game that's perfect for audio books while spending time on it?
Not really, exploration is inherently "boring" if you see it that way. Unless you'd rather have a game where every time you dropped into an unexplored system there was a chance you got attacked by aliens or pirates, or we could simulate random catastrophic ship failures based on a mean failure rate to each component. That might spice things up a bit.
 
Yeah, this is not an excuse for us sitting in the CQC lobby for hours and still never getting our very first match. Does it ever work, or does someone get a perverse joy at watching us queue and wait? Oh, well, I'll go back to figuring out why the guys I am ally with and who were giving me six-figure missions yesterday have nothing but 10k 'boom data' for me today. Progressing backwards! No excuse for that either.
 
I cannot refrain longer from posting my opinion.

Many players are complaining about time sinks in ED, (while others see them as a core feature that sets the game above others).

Please just consider for a moment.

Tried travelling over a short journey on Earth in the real world? Seen how long it takes?
Now in ED, players can take a spaceship, refuel and repair it, start it, undock from an orbital station, fly to a distance that allows a hyper jump, jump to another star system lightyears away, travel to a particular location in the new system, dock the ship in a space station or on a planet. All in less than 5 short minutes! Time sinks - you are having a laugh.

OP you are right, Time Sinks were nerfed. They used to have 4 now they only have 3.
 
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