PvP Time to Punish the Murder Hobos

[Wargfoot]

Greetings:

The murder hobos claim that they've destroyed over 3,000 ships. Even if we adjust that number to something more realistic by removing the chest thumping modifier, the nonsense quotient, and other assorted projections - down to a more realistic 75 ships, most of whom were likely NPCs, the fact remains that you probably know somebody who knows somebody else who read a limerick on the Trevithick bathroom wall that had a story about a NPC pirate who got 'ganked' by these guys.

That should make you very, very angry.

Not that someone would write on the wall - I mean, sure - but let's be honest, Trevithick is a dump and the ink is probably the only thing holding the wall up - but it should make you angry that there is murder most foul afoot. Let's not forget these guys seem to be having fun, which I'm sure is against the EULA, depending who is reading it, because I'm amazed what is in that document. (The Chili Con Carne recipe isn't half bad)

So I would like to propose that some of the more skilled pilots in our ranks (not me) set out to organize other skilled pilots (again, not me) to begin the systemic punishments of these nefarious rascals (not me) and see to it that we have proper space floggings being handed out like party favors at a New Years Eve celebration, as required.

Because I cannot pilot I'll contribute as I might - although I found out the Sidewinders aren't actually free and I have two loans and currently no way to make money such that I'll forever be stuck at Trevithick living in the mop closet, level 5 near the infirmary - hiding from angry debt collectors who not only want payment for the two ships I've crashed but also for student loans going back to 3015, but I digress. The thing is I cannot do much but I'll be happy to work as a secretary and help all of you brave pilots who join this noble effort keep track of the kills, being sure of course, to add the proper adjustments to the figures so that we meet with only the best sorts of success.

Sincerely,
-Wargfoot

 

[Old Duck]

I am punishing them, by playing in Solo

 

[Wargfoot]

I am punishing them, by playing in Solo

I think I just found my assistant record keeper.
If you could help me gather data and adjust figures as necessary that would be most appreciated.

 

[Hellfire85]

student loans going back to 3015

we're in 3305
Just how long does it take you to upgrade from that sidey?[haha]

 

[Bigmaec]

Good luck. You'll need it.

 

[Wargfoot]

we're in 3305
Just how long does it take you to upgrade from that sidey?[haha]

Hellfire,

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term 'compound interest' but I can assure you that those of us with long term debt understand the implications of it completely. The reason I'm discussing 'compound interest' is because it dovetails nicely with a point I've been wanting to discuss with you for some time: Karmic Debt.

Have you checked your balance with the universal banker lately?

-Wargfoot

 

[Wargfoot]

Good luck. You'll need it.

Thank you Bigmaec.
Your nom de plume is well earned as that was mighty big of you.

- Wargfoot
- Record Keeping
- Karmic Debt Collectors

 

[Arithon]

I thought the law and order changes were supposed to make being a murder-hobo an ever-escalating threat level - much like the police pursuit in GTA - which would drive griefers out of civilised systems, into Anarchy systems. In line with how the original Elite used to function. Anarchy systems were profitable, but highly dangerous places. But sadly that hasn't been the case.

In practice nothing seems to have changed and I find the "suck it up or play in SOLO" response unacceptable. Why should the majority of players be scattered to isolated private groups for the benefit of a handful of anti-social griefers?

I have no issue with real piracy (where cargo, not murder is the objective) or combat in the context of combat zones, power play, etc. but the murder of other players for zero objective is not playing the game on any level and serves no purpose, other the amusement of the perpetrators. What it serves to do is make victimised players leave the game for either a short time, or for good. In my view gankers & griefers are toxic to the game and should be discouraged by any means necessary.

The "git gud" response is also absurd, since no amount of skill can make a trade ship capable of surviving an highly engineered alpha-strike from one or more specialised combat ships. The idea is ridiculous. You die in seconds. You don't even have time to turn your ship, much less deploy hard-points. So that is not in any way a valid solution.

I don't want to "punish" murder-hobos, but the game should make it such that once that path is taken a ship cannot stay in a star-system with even minimal security without an ever-escalating series of attacks from authority ships. This would bring Elite Dangerous into line with the original game, make being a murder-hobo a dangerous cat-n-mouse exercise and make non-anarchy systems safe for the majority to play in OPEN making the game better for all.

 

[Wargfoot]

I thought the law and order changes were supposed to make being a murder-hobo an ever-escalating threat level - much like the police pursuit in GTA - which would drive griefers out of civilised systems, into Anarchy systems. In line with how the original Elite used to function. Anarchy systems were profitable, but highly dangerous places. But sadly that hasn't been the case.

In practice nothing seems to have changed and I find the "suck it up or play in SOLO" response unacceptable. Why should the majority of players be scattered to isolated private groups for the benefit of a handful of anti-social griefers?

I have no issue with real piracy (where cargo, not murder is the objective) or combat in the context of combat zones, power play, etc. but the murder of other players for zero objective is not playing the game on any level and serves no purpose, other the amusement of the perpetrators. What it serves to do is make victimised players leave the game for either a short time, or for good. In my view gankers & griefers are toxic to the game and should be discouraged by any means necessary.

The "git gud" response is also absurd, since no amount of skill can make a trade ship capable of surviving an highly engineered alpha-strike from one or more specialised combat ships. The idea is ridiculous. You die in seconds. You don't even have time to turn your ship, much less deploy hard-points. So that is not in any way a valid solution.

I don't want to "punish" murder-hobos, but the game should make it such that once that path is taken a ship cannot stay in a star-system with even minimal security without an ever-escalating series of attacks from authority ships. This would bring Elite Dangerous into line with the original game, make being a murder-hobo a dangerous cat-n-mouse exercise and make non-anarchy systems safe for the majority to play in OPEN making the game better for all.

Until such time as the central authorities, who have contented themselves with collecting revenue for speeding, decide to woman-up and take control of the [redacted] star systems where they live and operate, it will be up to the brave and fearless fighters of the Karmic Debt Collectors to wage this war. I'm putting you down as the wing commander of the advanced strike force.

Welcome aboard, Commander Arithon.

-Wargfoot
-Record Keeper
-Karmic Debt Collectors

 

[Hellfire85]

Hellfire,

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term 'compound interest' but I can assure you that those of us with long term debt understand the implications of it completely. The reason I'm discussing 'compound interest' is because it dovetails nicely with a point I've been wanting to discuss with you for some time: Karmic Debt.

Have you checked your balance with the universal banker lately?

-Wargfoot

My "karmic" balance is fine, I don't shoot paper planes or noobwinders, too easy. Unless they talk crap and ask for it. That being said, it only happened once or twice in my 2000+hours

 

[Marshall...]

The quoted figure, are player numbers, not NPCs.

You'll find the most experienced PvP players, are the ones doing the killing

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I thought the law and order changes were supposed to make being a murder-hobo an ever-escalating threat level

Provided a player is murdering lots of ships in quick successionin lawful space, the costs are escalating. And the higher the security level of the system, the faster the ATR response. ATR fires lasers akin to station guns that attack the shield generator directly.

- much like the police pursuit in GTA - which would drive griefers out of civilised systems, into Anarchy systems. In line with how the original Elite used to function. Anarchy systems were profitable, but highly dangerous places. But sadly that hasn't been the case.

The above makes it more dangerous to gank in High security systems. However you are correct in that the authorities in this game are not proactive, i.e. in general, one must initiate a new crime before authority response triggers. Authority scans can uncover wanted statuses, but those are easy to avoid if you know what you're doing.

You need to keep in mind that many of the kills on DG2 took place in (a) Pallaeni, a Low Security system where ill-fitted explorers were lured into a cage (the tourist beacons) by Distant Worlds event organizers, and (b) deep space, independent medium security systems surrounded by anarchy and unaffiliated independent space. Had these murders been occurring in superpower affiliated space, the murder-hobos in question would have quickly surpassed the superpower bounty thresholds.

In practice nothing seems to have changed and I find the "suck it up or play in SOLO" response unacceptable. Why should the majority of players be scattered to isolated private groups for the benefit of a handful of anti-social griefers?

This is a hyperbolic over-simplification of what options are available to players. Solo is an option, as is flying a ship that has adequate defenses in such a way that it is nigh impossible for anyone to gank you. Having been attacked by stations and White Knights alike, and emerging from the encounters mostly unscathed, the CMDRs on the DG2 roster are direct evidence that you can outfit and fly your ships in a way that make you not only ungankable, but fully capable of carrying out other activities (such as exploration).

I have no issue with real piracy (where cargo, not murder is the objective)

Piracy is ineffective without the threat of murder. The two go hand in hand.

or combat in the context of combat zones, power play, etc. but the murder of other players for zero objective is not playing the game on any level and serves no purpose, other the amusement of the perpetrators.

Firstly, you don't know that there is a lack of objective. This game's core concept is players setting their own objectives, and someone choosing to murder-hobo their way to notoriety 10 or kill 100 ships in a single weekend is as valid a self-imposed goal as a player striving to make 100M credits on a given A-B trade run.

What it serves to do is make victimised players leave the game for either a short time, or for good. In my view gankers & griefers are toxic to the game and should be discouraged by any means necessary.

Some players. Most of the people who I ganked and friended along the way took it on the chin and kept flying. We even had some nice conversations and have had some since.

The "git gud" response is also absurd, since no amount of skill can make a trade ship capable of surviving an highly engineered alpha-strike from one or more specialised combat ships. The idea is ridiculous. You die in seconds. You don't even have time to turn your ship, much less deploy hard-points. So that is not in any way a valid solution.

This is hands-down, 100%, patently false. Speaking for myself, the Krait MkII that I was flying was fitted for both combat and exploration. I had to sacrifice some exploration gear for internals such as an interdictor and a couple of reinforcement packages, so I lacked a DSS and an SRV, for instance. Most of my internals were exploration-focused - AFMU, repair limpets, fuel scoop, etc. And while I erred on the side of caution with my loadout (because I was expecting to stick around when opposition showed up), I could have easily traded those for the exploration gear and survived almost any attack - as I brought adequate shields that allowed me to survive long enough to escape all but the most dire of encounters. On DG2, I died three times... in my DBX. All of those were times that I chose to stick around and die. My Krait never died once. And on both of those ships I hadn't even eked out every last megajoule or resistance percentage that I coulld get my hands on. And both ships were flown with standard A-rated shields (not prismatics).

And that same Krait could as easily have dumped all of its combat and exploration gear in exchange for cargo racks - insta trade vessel. No different from the trade vessels I fly in the bubble.

You can't build a trade ship capable of survival only because you don't believe that you can, and you not believing something doesn't make it untrue.

Heard many times on the DG2 voice channel during gank sessions: "Who? Oh, CMDR XYZ? Ungankable, we've tried to kill him twice. Just leave him and find easier targets."

I don't want to "punish" murder-hobos, but the game should make it such that once that path is taken a ship cannot stay in a star-system with even minimal security without an ever-escalating series of attacks from authority ships.

You literally want to punish murder hobos. You just broke your own argument in one sentence. And you wanting to punish murder hobos is fine, just be honest about it.

This would bring Elite Dangerous into line with the original game, make being a murder-hobo a dangerous cat-n-mouse exercise and make non-anarchy systems safe for the majority to play in OPEN making the game better for all.

See my quote about system security, above.

 

[Wargfoot]

The quoted figure, are player numbers, not NPCs.

You'll find the most experienced PvP players, are the ones doing the killing

You sound like one of Null's paid ministers of propaganda.
I think if you set your bias aside we can both agree that trusting murderers to not lie is a bit silly.

Amirite?

That aside, your objection is noted and I'm willing to admit the count of 75 should be with qualified with +/- 10% as exact figures are not known.

Regards,
-Wargfoot
-Record Keeper
-Karmic Debt Collectors

 

[Krash]

Clever and amusing attempt at organizing emergent gameplay. My favorite part is how you reduce their kill count down to 75 NPCs. You are an interesting character if nothing else wargfoot.

 

[Wargfoot]

Clever and amusing attempt at organizing emergent gameplay. My favorite part is how you reduce their kill count down to 75 NPCs. You are an interesting character if nothing else wargfoot.

I want to clear up some misconceptions in your post:

1: I didn't claim all 75 were NPCs.
3: I'll be posting a progress report by the end of the week in order to facilitate full transparency.
2: I did include the phrase 'woman up' instead of 'man up' in an earlier post (Karmic Debt Collectors is very inclusive) - so your veiled accusation of sexism is not appreciated.

Otherwise, your post was very much on point.
I'm going to pencil you in as "Minister of Galaxy Defense".

Thank you,
-Wargfoot
-Record Keeper
-Karmic Debt Collectors

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Clever and amusing attempt at organizing emergent gameplay. My favorite part is how you reduce their kill count down to 75 NPCs. You are an interesting character if nothing else wargfoot.

People speak of how the 'Lord of the Flies' is such a brilliant comic role-player. WF has him beat hands down as far as I can see. Power to your arm my friend, and your nascent squadron. Galactic overlordship awaits!

 

[Screemonster]

Heard many times on the DG2 voice channel during gank sessions: "Who? Oh, CMDR XYZ? Ungankable, we've tried to kill him twice. Just leave him and find easier targets."

You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your friend.
This worked for me in Wyrd about an hour ago - I was just leaving Black Hide in my shieldless, unarmed ieagle, there was a challenger in orbit that turned to intercept, turned to face him, he's running frags and packing an interdictor, so I just nipped back into orbital cruise for another pass - then another guy left the base and next thing I saw they were getting pulled by the challenger. I dunno if I've just been meeting people that aren't any good at it but so far I've successfully avoided ganks in open simply by not letting them pull me in the first place.

 

[Wargfoot]

People speak of how the 'Lord of the Flies' is such a brilliant comic role-player. WF has him beat hands down as far as I can see. Power to your arm my friend, and your nascent squadron. Galactic overlordship awaits!

You don't have to shower me with accolades to be included in our efforts.
I've decided to make you my chief accountant.

Your first task is to find a way to get my Sidewinder debts paid without me having to waste valuable time mining.
I actually rocketed out to the asteroid belts outside of Trevithick last night and found out my plasma guns have no impact on the rocks out there.
Go figure.

Thanks,
-Wargfoot
-Record Keeper
-Karmic Debt Collectors

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

You don't have to shower me with accolades to be included in our efforts.
I've decided to make you my chief accountant.

Your first task is to find a way to get my Sidewinder debts paid without me having to waste valuable time mining.
I actually rocketed out to the asteroid belts outside of Trevithick last night and found out my plasma guns have no impact on the rocks out there.
Go figure.

Thanks,
-Wargfoot
-Record Keeper
-Karmic Debt Collectors

Hate to break it you CMDR, but I got a lousy head for figures. You should probably make me your bard or some such, I'd be happy to churn out any number of heroic style poems and sagas singing your praise and making your path to glory a pretty one. Or I could be like your John the Baptist or some such. I'm tempted by those purse strings though... I know a great little bar in Colonia where the wine flows and the women are beautiful....

 

[Krash]

I'm offline this weekend or I would offer you some wing missions. If you hang out with my crew for a couple of days your CR problems will be over.