Time to remove BGS exploits

[Kevin Kyle]

Well I was unaware you could do this in that way. Ya, should be fixed I believe however they do that. I always just go with the one click mass exodus method. I dont have the patience to go through all that. If I could unload all my passengers with a single click, I would do that too.

 

[_Flin_]

Please expalin exactly what you mean by exploration data exploits and combat bond exploits, because I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you have FD quotes about them (whatever they may be) being exploits, then there might be a baisi for a discussion.

There are no FD quotes about them being exploits.
I think that it is actually intended that transactions count to "balance" big ships and have pilots in small ships matter.

The mechanics in question are well known with people playing the BGS. We call them "transactional" mechanics. See here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...son-2-Review?p=5958807&viewfull=1#post5958807

One key aspect that needs to be balanced is the transactional nature. This is true for almost everything. It has been balanced with trade, but basically all other influence generating activities still need to be balanced.

The main transactional mechanic, however, is to murder civilian or sys authority ships. It works so well that you can hardly counter it, only with a lot more effort than is put into it.

So yes.

It is time to remove these "exploits" and do a big balancing pass so that the metagame is created new.

All the transactional mechanics need to go in regards to influence and be capped (like was done with trade) and be balanced against amount of things done.

And please please please remove any PP bonusses from the influence generation effects. Like Bounty Hunting bonusses or similar.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

So selling data and handing in bounties to a faction to gain rep is an exploit?

Sounds absurd, so I assume there is something that I'm missing.

As we showed over the weekend in Ross 128, explo (prior) and bonds (during) are the only real effective defenses against murder. EDF would like to see the defenses against murder nerfed, so they can win in the game.

Names withheld to protect the guilty, and me from any naming and shaming on the forums.

 

[Fendalton]

Time to make PP open only. I can't wait for people to destroy other players bases behind a private group with no way to counter it next season.

PP is a joke for this exact reason. You can't stop people destroying ships in your own systems, so it becomes a DPS race in other peoples systems.

10/10 engagement.

 

[RossNoodles]

What's BGS stand for?
Just wondering cos I'm a couple hundred jumps away from finishing a two week exploration trip involving a lot of ELWs and WWs etc and would like to troll someone here who'll be upset if I don't sell the data in the way they think I should. After all, I've spent hundreds of hours exploring so shouldn't get any reward from it...

 

[Ian Phillips]

Snip

Thanks _Flin_. That does give me some background to the problem being talked about!

 

[_Flin_]

What's BGS stand for?
Just wondering cos I'm a couple hundred jumps away from finishing a two week exploration trip involving a lot of ELWs and WWs etc and would like to troll someone here who'll be upset if I don't sell the data in the way they think I should. After all, I've spent hundreds of hours exploring so shouldn't get any reward from it...

Background Simulation.

Time to make PP open only. I can't wait for people to destroy other players bases behind a private group with no way to counter it next season.

PP is a joke for this exact reason. You can't stop people destroying ships in your own systems, so it becomes a DPS race in other peoples systems.

10/10 engagement.

This is about the background simulation, not Powerplay.
And which "Open only" do you mean? PS4, Mac, PC or XBOX Open?

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

At least that's what you'd want people to believe, right?

The Earth Defense Fleet takes pride in how we conduct ourselves.We do everything out in the Open and above board. We do not hide behind Private Group and Solo walls using known exploits as some do. To compensate for their lack of skill. We also know how to fight our own battles without having to go and ask for help from other to fight our battles for us.

 

[_Flin_]

The Earth Defense Fleet takes pride in how we conduct ourselves.We do everything out in the Open and above board. We do not hide behind Private Group and Solo walls using known exploits as some do. To compensate for their lack of skill. We also know how to fight our own battles without having to go and ask for help from other to fight our battles for us.

You mean like asking (EDIT) loads of other Fed groups or using Murder & Explo mechanic exclusively?

That is probably why EDF's pilots are always on our bounty boards and out in space.

Get real, stop telling lies. Because it is really pathetic.

EDIT: Maybe you aren't telling lies and actually think you tell the truth. MIght be. Doubt it, but might be. If so, question your sources.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I hope for PP to be made more casual and more organic to BGS. I am kinda ok for this extra layer to muddle things - otherwise all would be boring a bit - but it needs clarity.

Overall BGS works, but yeah, it needs balancing passes for influence. Also I would love to see passengers taking some influence along with some considerable variations of citizenship change (if system is at war and there are people actively escorting refugees, some influence on system size would be nice).

 

[Kevin Kyle]

Well, this thread got interesting fast. I didnt know all of this. Suddenly the purpose of the thread has more meaning.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Well, this thread got interesting fast. I didnt know all of this. Suddenly the purpose of the thread has more meaning.

Would have been nice if it was properly explained by the OP at the outset. Not everyone is experienced in all aspects of the game!

 

[_Flin_]

Would have been nice if it was properly explained by the OP at the outset. Not everyone is experienced in all aspects of the game!

EDF is attacking AEDC systems for about 2 months now with murder. The counter attacks exist as well and have led to burnout. Both parties involved have allies and EDF just lost the latest War in a Federation system. Now they are angry and fail to measure their own actions against their propagated ideals. Instead accuse us of "exploits" they call exploits but have never been called such by FD. Where we lobbied privately and openly for changes to the BGS transaction mechanics for months.

Quite human. And sad.

 

[Apos]

The Earth Defense Fleet takes pride in how we conduct ourselves.We do everything out in the Open and above board. We do not hide behind Private Group and Solo walls using known exploits as some do. To compensate for their lack of skill. We also know how to fight our own battles without having to go and ask for help from other to fight our battles for us.

None of what you mention is relevant to the point. In the end of the day, the point whether a mechanic is an exploit or not is the effectiveness per time investment ratio. And murder, which is what you do, has the highest ratio even after the nerfs.

You thought you had an easy victory in the bag by getting us into a war, murdered the crap out of the system's security and still lost due to not playing all the available cards right. Just accept it and move on instead of asking for FD to give you an easy victory. (which is short sighted, because you don't seem to understand that your own faction will suffer the same fate.)

And frankly, since I can tell tell that your group learned a lot through this AND got a handful of new recruits. You should be a little more thankful of the whole engagement.

 

[Ian Phillips]

EDF is attacking AEDC systems for about 2 months now with murder. The counter attacks exist as well and have led to burnout. Both parties involved have allies and EDF just lost the latest War in a Federation system. Now they are angry and fail to measure their own actions against their propagated ideals. Instead accuse us of "exploits" they call exploits but have never been called such by FD. Where we lobbied privately and openly for changes to the BGS transaction mechanics for months.

The counter attacks involve handing in data and bonds....?

 

[_Flin_]

The counter attacks involve handing in data and bonds....?

The counter attacks involve murder (as we are attacked with murder) and for repairing the murder you need to use the exploration, because it is the only thing that is close in potency to murder.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I think I'm begining to see why I prefer to explore - its just not this busy

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

The one ton trading was a total exploit because players would script the buying and selling of the goods to get maximum effect.

CZ bonds, however you cash them in are not an exploit. You still have to earn them. Yes it's possible to maximize the BGS effect, but this cuts down the random effect of players that are farming massacre missions.

Exploration selling is a bit exploit-like when sold one at a time. Maybe this should be closed. But a player still needs to spend a lot of time to get the data, so it's still not technically an exploit.

 

[duckofdeath]

As we showed over the weekend in Ross 128, explo (prior) and bonds (during) are the only real effective defenses against murder. EDF would like to see the defenses against murder nerfed, so they can win in the game.

Names withheld to protect the guilty, and me from any naming and shaming on the forums.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i135/MangalOemie/federationwartime_blur_zps6kiukf8s.png

It takes time to collect both exploration data and combat bonds. It's not an exploit. In fact, since 2.4 missions far outweigh the effects of that, if you do it right.
Also, murder for influence was nerfed to death because it was abused. There was a time when there was no way to defend a station against that.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

The Earth Defense Fleet takes pride in how we conduct ourselves.We do everything out in the Open and above board. We do not hide behind Private Group and Solo walls using known exploits as some do. To compensate for their lack of skill. We also know how to fight our own battles without having to go and ask for help from other to fight our battles for us.

So this didn't happen, then?