TM WartHog + E.D.

[Archvillain]

It's intended to replicate real military aircraft controls (the A-10, to be both specific and Captain Obvious), and you better believe that a live ordinance fire button doesn't trigger whenever sneezed on

(Speaking of "firm" controls, apparently the Blue Angels have their flightsticks spring-loaded to require 40 pounds of force from the pilot's hand just to hold the stick in place, so that your muscles are always so heavily engaged that minor disturbances or unintended movements won't shift the stick. So... things could be worse... )

 

[Arkku]

The buttons are stiff but you'll get used to it, and after you do the toy buttons on most other sticks will feel downright silly. That being said, IMO the gimbal on the Warthog stick is awful, even the Saiteks are considerably smoother, especially when crossing an axis. Fortunately there are alternative gimbals you can put that nice Warthog handle on.

 

[Shanaeri]

It's intended to replicate real military aircraft controls (the A-10, to be both specific and Captain Obvious), and you better believe that a live ordinance fire button doesn't trigger whenever sneezed on

I think this was one of my issues with the stick. It's built to help simulate the feel of air resistance on the controls, and for those controls to be mostly mechanical in nature(the A10 doesn't have fly by fire).

Our ships not only don't have mechanical control surfaces(e.g flaperons etc) there is no air resistance to counter, so in my imagination the controls were always much lighter touch. Like a car with power steering vs one without.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The buttons are stiff but you'll get used to it, and after you do the toy buttons on most other sticks will feel downright silly. That being said, IMO the gimbal on the Warthog stick is awful, even the Saiteks are considerably smoother, especially when crossing an axis. Fortunately there are alternative gimbals you can put that nice Warthog handle on.

There is a guide on YouTube to help you fix this, not all Wathog sticks suffer this effect which one could argue is a defect. Saitek uses that god awful spring centring system I know cos I have one and not used it for years.

 

[Archvillain]

Our ships not only don't have mechanical control surfaces(e.g flaperons etc) there is no air resistance to counter, so in my imagination the controls were always much lighter touch. Like a car with power steering vs one without.

While that's perfectly sensible, FWIW personally I think that the basis of Elite is the Golden Age Of Flight (1920s-30s) set in space, (like how Star Wars is a samurai/swashbuckler set in space.) Elite is romanticized 1930s technology and tales: the adventures of The Pilot, rat-tat-tat dogfighting, manual controls, empires locked in uneasy equilibrium, uncharted territory beyond, smugglers, pirates, radio towers, secret bases, derring-do, etc.
In almost all respects, the ships are functionally Golden-Age early-20th-century instead of futuristic, including when that doesn't make sense for the 3300AD, overriding the futurism, and I'm ok with that

 

[sollisb]

I think this was one of my issues with the stick. It's built to help simulate the feel of air resistance on the controls, and for those controls to be mostly mechanical in nature(the A10 doesn't have fly by fire).

Our ships not only don't have mechanical control surfaces(e.g flaperons etc) there is no air resistance to counter, so in my imagination the controls were always much lighter touch. Like a car with power steering vs one without.

Maybe I just have baby fingers

As an ex military guy I can understand the necessary 'push hard' to activate and positive feedback of said operation and also bearign in mind, gloves would probably being used as well.

But for games on a PC..

I already stripped down the Joystick and changed the spring in the primary trigger. Now it's just the press-down switches, especially the one near pinky finger on throttle (i use that for boost) and the ones on the base. I might look to see if there is same type switch available in size etc and swap them in..

The rest is all an absolute joy to use. And I'd really miss it if I had to switch back.

 

[Herbrand]

It is a stiff stick indeed, because it mimics actual military hardware. You'll get used to it, make those hand muscles work!

 

[GreyAreaUK]

While it had loads of buttons these were of the 'toggle' nature. Now while I am sure I would have got used to it, I prefer the 'flip' type. So for example, to activate a shield cell or deploy landing gear in the warthog it required two switch activations (on then off) rather than just one in my X52 pro.

This has always puzzled me, especially since the cargo hatch doesn't require a toggle.

 

[sollisb]

Not just you. My CH HOTAS has been failing rapidly, and it seems somewhere in the last ten years or so, the company has taken a dive, quality wise, so I decided to treat myself, and used my quarterly bonus for a Warthog.

It arrived yesterday. First thing I noticed was how stiff the buttons were. Second thing is just how substantial the controls feel. Third thing I noticed is that some of those physical switches on the throttle base are going to be a pain in VR.

Last thing I noticed is that muscle memory sucks when it works against you.

Yep I also use VR and it took some time to remember how I'd remapped controls. The biggest thing has been the loss of 'twist' yaw.. But I'm getting there

I have VA but with my other half constantly on phone and doing webinars... It just doesn't work out.

 

[Archvillain]

While it had loads of buttons these were of the 'toggle' nature. Now while I am sure I would have got used to it, I prefer the 'flip' type. So for example, to activate a shield cell or deploy landing gear in the warthog it required two switch activations (on then off) rather than just one in my X52 pro

For whatever it's worth, that's just a matter of taking some extra time with the config software. For example I have mine set up so that the toggle-switch down is cargo bay open (and indicator light on) and toggle-switch up is cargo bay closed (and indicator light off), same with other on/off controls (headlights, landing gear, silent running, etc), I kind of like having the switch position reinforce whether the item is powered, and me not being able to accidentally put it into the wrong state by pushing a button without realizing It was already in the desired state and causing it to flip... Not that I would ever be so incompetent... Ahem...

It also means the bank of indicator lights tells at a glance whether I need to stow anything to jump, and if so, what. Unfortunately I don't get to enjoy that feature any more because I got a headset, but it was cute
(For fire controls like shield cells, I use either the spring-return switches or push-buttons.)

 

[Viking84]

The lack of toggle options in Elites control setup is actually tempting me away from the Warthog setup, regardless of how brilliant the stick and throttle combo is. Half of the switches on my throttle are unused, and programming them in TARGET to work as regular buttons seems like a guaranteed way of them ending up out of sync with the game.

Have been requesting more "hold" options in the controller setup for ages. Lights, landing gear, cargo scoop, hardpoints, FSD charging, silent running, fa on/off, all of these could be "hold to activate" style switches. A couple of them are already and using the toggle switches for them is brilliant, clear feedback on the state of your ship without looking for icons on the HUD Very good for VR use too.

So, Frontier, give us more "hold" options!

 

[ilmostro]

There is a guide on YouTube to help you fix this, not all Wathog sticks suffer this effect which one could argue is a defect. Saitek uses that god awful spring centring system I know cos I have one and not used it for years.

Yep. There are also aftermarket spring kits, and most of the switches could be swapped out for alternatives.

[video=youtube;hmT9YJTIru8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmT9YJTIru8[/video]

Silicone grease is also very good to improve the smoothness of the gimbal.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006O7HTDE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Arkku]

There is a guide on YouTube to help you fix this, not all Wathog sticks suffer this effect which one could argue is a defect. Saitek uses that god awful spring centring system I know cos I have one and not used it for years.

Yes, well, I have meticulously removed all the seams from the Warthog gimbal, rounded the plastic pegs, and relubricated the whole thing a couple of times. It's ok for a while after all of this, but IMO still worse than my old Saitek X55 in terms of precision (otherwise it is superior). But since there are at least four alternative bases for the handle, there are some good upgrade paths for the Warthog that don't involve the original gimbal. Personally I went for the FSSB R3 Lightning, which is basically like having a thought-controlled joystick.

As for the Warthog throttle, I really like it after a couple of easy modifications: I added a center detent so I can use it as a full range throttle by feel, and I added a two-way momentary switch under the ring finger on the back side of the throttle, as an alternative to the unreachable toggle on the left side.

 

[Arkku]

Have been requesting more "hold" options in the controller setup for ages. Lights, landing gear, cargo scoop, hardpoints, FSD charging, silent running, fa on/off, all of these could be "hold to activate" style switches. A couple of them are already and using the toggle switches for them is brilliant, clear feedback on the state of your ship without looking for icons on the HUD Very good for VR use too.

So, Frontier, give us more "hold" options!

Yes, FDEV, if you are listening, please do this. And have the game sync the status of all the hold controls on launch and after hyperjump, currently it seems that at least the "alternative controls" hold is forgotten after each jump and has to be manually toggled.

 

[Archvillain]

programming them in TARGET to work as regular buttons seems like a guaranteed way of them ending up out of sync with the game.

While the ideal scenario is Fdev implanting more "hold" bindings or separate on/off bindings, I think you'd be surprised at how robustly in sync with the game your programmed controls remain. For mine, just in case there is a sync issue I have an override switch that disables toggle input so that I could easily flip a toggle back into sync, but... I've kind of forgotten what my override switch is because it's been so long since I've ever used it. The way that things can get out of sync is if you shut down the game and then start flipping toggles while the game isn't running, and there's no reason for me to ever do that because Elite is the only "flight sim" I play. Other than that scenario, the game is quite robust at things being in the state you left them in.
(Arrku's note above that the secondary bindings might not be as robust as the primary ones is something I didn't know, but it makes sense. By luck I use the primary bindings)

 

[ilmostro]

Yes, FDEV, if you are listening, please do this. And have the game sync the status of all the hold controls on launch and after hyperjump, currently it seems that at least the "alternative controls" hold is forgotten after each jump and has to be manually toggled.

Yep - I could change the landing gear switch for a toggle type rather than momentary push